This is not me saying at all that Trump is better than Biden; it’s more of an equalization argument that I truthfully can’t see a fiscal difference.

It’s been well known by people like us that the two bourgeois parties are basically the same, but I never really understood how close they were until the last like, 6 months.

Maybe it’s JUST Biden that’s super similar. But regardless, I just don’t see the difference. He spews nice words about trans rights, workers, all of these good things. But the exact same shit that happened under Trump basically happened under Biden. Funding for genocidal states, proxy war funding, funding police, loss of abortion federal protection, separation of kids and parents at the border, etc.

People keep saying Biden is marginally better, where?

I don’t know. I can’t bring myself to vote for any of these guys this time around.

  • Tatar_Nobility@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    The irony is that the Americans are slaves to their electoral system. Liberal democracies are one big, pathetic myth where they make the masses believe that they are the ones in control of the polity and just like they elected someone into a position of power they can dismiss them in later elections.

    The discourse that has been happening shows quite a different reality: Americans are treating the elections as if there is no alternative. Even if there indeed was no alternative, they don’t bargain with the ones in power, they don’t use their vote as a bargaining chip for political change. They are ready to vote unconditionally because they accept their candidate as is.

    You don’t see democrat voters pressuring the Biden administration to put an end to the genocide in Palestine. They feel uneasy towards what’s happening but ultimately they consider themselves to be powerless. Western democracy and constitutionalism have politically alienated the people.

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      8 months ago

      The Pax Americana educational system will avoid debate over the meaning of words like ‘democracy’ so that the manipulation of definition of words allow the Pax Americana to use democracy slogan to justify authoritarianism in their hypocrisy. They will convince the people that electoralism is the only indicator of democracy, but then claim that an election was rigged if the election result does not suit Pax Americana like the allegation by Hillary Clinton in 2016, by Donald Trump in 2020, and by Neo-Liberal American politicians about Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro. Like with the electoralism in USSR, the Pax Americana will later denied the existance of electoralism in a country after claiming that the electoralism was rigged to maintain their indoctrination that electoralism is the only indicator of democracy.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
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    There’s no meaningful difference between republicans and democracts because both parties represent the interests of class that holds power in the end. And this isn’t just us Marxists saying this, here’s what a Princeton study analyzing many decades of US policy concluded:

    What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

    US elections are just a circus with the sole aim of making people feel like they’re participating in the political process. Republicans are a brand curated to appeal to social conservative people and Democrats are a brand for socially liberal ones. The goal is to get people to get invested in issues that don’t threaten capital and to fight over them. As Parenti so aptly puts it in Blackshirts and Reds:

    Seizing upon anything but class, leftists today have developed an array of identity groups centering around ethnic, gender, cultural, and life-style issues. These groups treat their respective grievances as something apart from class struggle, and have almost nothing to say about the increasingly harsh politico-economic class injustices perpe­trated against us all. Identity groups tend to emphasize their distinc­tiveness and their separateness from each other, thus fractionalizing the protest movement. To be sure, they have important contributions to make around issues that are particularly salient to them, issues often overlooked by others. But they also should not downplay their common interests, nor overlook the common class enemy they face. The forces that impose class injustice and economic exploitation are the same ones that propagate racism, sexism, militarism, ecological devastation, homophobia, xenophobia, and the like.

    • I would say its worse than a circus, because with the exception of the time a circus elephant ran through my back yard I can ignore a circus. In the US I cannot ignore an election, no matter how much I tried the news cycle is now built atleast partly around a “big election that will make or break everything” happening soon, either this year or next and if its next we have to start working on it now. It could be just my perseption, but it genuinly seems like the more obvious it is that things are breaking the move the election circus is pushed, as if we have not been playing that way for decades or more

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml
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        8 months ago

        It is an obnoxious spectacle to be sure, and I’m subjected to it living outside the US as well. I do imagine sucking up all the air in the room is an intentional feature. The more news coverage focuses on the election the less attention is given to everything else that’s going on.

        • Oh undoubtedly, not only does it take away attention from the bigger issues, but it gives the masses a way to channel their frustration through an acceptable (read will do nothing of note) path, and then they can move on with their day. It also gives them a convenent scape goat, the other half of the uniparty, to blame for everything wrong in the world, without focusing on any real systemic issues.

  • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.ml
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    8 months ago

    What baffles me is that democRATs cannot produce any viable candidate apart from Biden. Do they have no idea how bad it looks? Even disregarding that Biden is a racist genocidal piece of shit (something that democrats do not care about), he is degenerating neurologically by the day. Looking at him I cannot confidently say that one year from now he will be able to walk and talk at all.

    • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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      I find this very peculiar. They are in the “vote blue no matter what” mode even if “what” is open genocide, so they should also with no problem vote blue no matter who, and their entire campain for Biden have exactly one point “he is not Trump” anyway.

      So why that carcass, they could as well put up random John Doe, Florida Man or a cat and “not Trump” would still work.

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        My best guess is because Dems alienated their power base. They used to be “the progressive choice”, but over the years have shown they’re just the same as pre-Trump Republicans, just a little less homophobic and racist. As long as I can remember, Dems usually struggle to rally behind a single candidate and it has hurt them in elections. There’d be, like, 3 Dem choices while Republicans get it boiled down pretty quick, and the Dems always betray the most popular to select the most status quo.

        So, if I had to guess why Genocide Joe is still in and backed by them, it’s because they recognize they simply can’t afford the arguments and division. Nobody likes them except deluded libs. Nobody believes or trusts them. Progressives are disillusioned, many realizing voting doesn’t work, others desperately looking for an alternative. Meanwhile, Republicans don’t have that issue. The Trump cult wants him back, and failing that they’ll overwhelmingly select the closest to him, because to them voting is more about patriotism and owning the lib. They’ll vote so they can say it’s rigged if they lose.

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      8 months ago

      They could literally just fish one of the candidates from last time’s primaries, who are already part of the administration. Mayo Pete? Kamala Harris? Literally anybody who is not at risk of randomly dying of natural causes from now to January next year?

      I still maintain my position that the DNC wants to lose, so they can keep the “battle for the soul of our nation” distraction going for another cycle or two. Though I don’t think it’s going to work, I doubt their electoral system is going to last that long.

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      Do the high-ups really think Biden is the “compromise candidate” that can “reach across the aisle,” (ie shift right wards) and win support from the mystical “moderate” at this point?

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    8 months ago

    Racist geriatric maniac who bombs the middle east vs racist geriatric maniac who bombs the middle east. Neither is better or worse than the other at this point

    • SadArtemis🏳️‍⚧️@lemmygrad.ml
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      At least one of the two sought to leave Syria (though they still also bombed it, because of course they did). Though when it comes to the MENA region I think I agree, both are as vile and deranged as it gets.

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    8 months ago

    I’m not USAyan, but Trump withdrawn troops and said he’d get USA out of NATO. If he delivered, he’d be the most significant political figure for a fight against neocolonialism. I don’t exactly know the life within US for US people, but Trump is a significantly good choice for world politics from my perspective. Biden increased poverty death rate in Europe by approving destroying the gas line (I assume he partook based on his public statements) and general poverty suffering. He continues supporting the apartheid and genocide of Palestinians. I find people who wish to vote for him extremely evil, but if your life under Trump was indeed this bad then I can somewhat understand why you don’t care about the blight your politicians bring to the rest of the world.

    • relay@lemmygrad.ml
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      8 months ago

      IF he delivered on getting the USA out of NATO

      IF he didn’t bomb Syria and get the approval of the Democrats. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-announces-strikes-syria-following-suspected-chemical-weapons-attack-assad-n865966

      IF he didn’t “solve” the conflict in occupied Palatine by not inviting Palestinian representatives. https://www.startpage.com/sp/search?query=trump+israel+deal&cat=web&pl=opensearch

      Trump also brought sanctions back to Cuba and Iran after Obama removed them.

      Both Democrats and Republicans are terrible. If one votes it is for the lesser evil. There is no choice that doesn’t kill innocent civilians around the world. There is no choice to end the various sanctions. Any good done by one president can be undone by another.

      Voting is not a method towards justice, only a compromise.

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        8 months ago

        Thank you for the information. I am reverting to my natural stance:

        death to the US of AmeriKKKa*

        • US =/= America, Latin Americans and natives are mighty fine, may they get free of the oppressor
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      Trumps “anti-war” position was all a facade. He wanted to lower tensions with Russia as a fellow “white” socially reactionary state and instead focus on Venezuela, Iran and China. Plus he was just a wild card opportunist. One day he was pretending to be besties with the DPRK, the next people are worried he’ll start a nuclear war with them. Even with Russia he flip-flopped. At one point he talked about wanting to get “the ruskies” out of Venezuela.

      The difference in foreign policy is chaotic evil vs “lawful” evil. Trump does whatever the hell and has different priorities. Biden tries to appear respectable as he escalates with everyone.

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      if by world you mean europe, trump has his sights on latin america, biden not so much.

      it is interesting that even inside the brics, the members are divergent, lula is supporting biden and putin is supporting russia. as a latam boy, I’m biden all the way, not because i believe biden to be a good progressive or smth, more like to keep us out of latam for now

      • Comradesexual@lemmygrad.ml
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        I dont think Palestine is in Europe, correct me if I’m wrong. I wasn’t aware Trump wanted to mess with latam. Can yanks just fucking wall themselves in and stop bothering anyone ffs.

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          Trump would’ve supported the escalation in the genocide had Al-aqsa happened then. He’s a raging Zionist, don’t illusion yourself.

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    I hope Trump wins if only because I want to see the liberals suffering and seething. It’s hardly adequate karma for the genocide of the Palestinian people but it’ll be something and maybe just maybe to someone somewhere it will send the message that supporting an open genocide even in the genocidal settler west is a bit too far. It also wrenches the system back and forth which is good. Forces all those Europeans who’ve been sobbing about NATO and democracy and liberal values and how evil Putler is to either embrace Trump and look like even worse hypocrites or to distance themselves. It won’t be enough to destroy NATO naturally but any tension that can be added is good. Trump doesn’t wear the mask of respectability Biden does to the world and that’s something too which makes me feel it’s slightly more positive if he’s president in the long game-plan. Liberals won’t be in the streets under 4 more years of Biden, they might be under Trump.

    Of course nothing much will change either way. There is no lesser evil, only funny evil pedophile war criminal and not funny evil pedophile war criminal who is hidden by his staff and who make all the decisions for him and give him a veneer of respectability. If you’re a Marxist you shouldn’t vote for either of them. Vote for a communist on your ballot or do a write-in or don’t vote at all for a presidential candidate. Amazingly you can just go and vote on local and state ballot initiatives while not putting anything down on the presidential race.

    • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
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      8 months ago

      to either embrace Trump and look like even worse hypocrites or to distance themselves

      Or they could do what they did the last time trump was in office - pretend to distance themselves, while running backroom deals and agreements, further colonising Europe to US capital

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        Well that was happening anyways. The Ukraine situation has assured Europe’s hollowing out and subjugation to the US and they did that all to themselves willingly in the open while proclaiming loudly it had to be done for democracy and liberalism and all that. I frankly don’t see that trend reversing no matter who is president, just that they might have to seem estranged for a while it might encourage a few more politicians on the edges to grow a stronger backbone as Hungry has demonstrated.

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    Biden has better aesthetics. No anti-intellectualism, focus on respectability, posturing as progressive etc… in a world where I would buy into US propaganda I’d be inspired by the image that the Dems want to give and I’d be scared and revolted by the image that the Reps have.

    But that’s all just aesthetics. Libs who urge you to vote Biden are just not seeing beyond PR

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      I’ve read that PSL has CIA contacts and are allegedly controlled opposition, but I can’t testify to the veracity of that.

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    The only thing I can say is that the republican party might have a slightly harder time at pushing Project 2025 if Biden gets reelected. But the agendas and policies will be the same, and republicans will still control most local governments. And the fact that democrats are roughly equal to republicans in their evilness.

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    They’re both dumbasses and sides of the same coin. The difference is who they consider the biggest threat, Democrats think its Russia while Republicans think its China.

    • TeezyZeezy@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      I mean, in that case Republicans are right lol. Long term at least, not in the “they’re gonna invadeeee” way. China will just win.

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    Whenever the party switches everything gets worse. Trump to Biden or Biden to Trump. Either will continue to support genocide and so on. Whoever wins nothing good will happen,

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    Trump might Mr Magoo his way into better policy by a combination of ignorance, incompetence, and contrarian willfulness. Biden will die in office after nuking Gaza because he has a dementia episode and thinks Hamas killed his son.

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    Someone I follow(ed) on Mastodon was just trying to shame people who don’t vote, because of the idea that “Trump is going to immediately round up all us trans people and throw us in camps if you don’t vote Biden!!”

    As far as I can tell, the claim seems entirely made up, and it feels almost malicious to be basing that entire decision around the idea that “Trump MIGHT come after ME hypothetically!!” rather than all of the people Biden has already thrown in camps and all of the people in Gaza that Biden has given his unconditional support to genociding

    It feels downright selfish to still be pushing that “vote blue no matter who” bullshit for that reason, and they clearly haven’t learned shit from 2016 and 2020

    They’re also still under the impression that people choose not to vote just so that they can “push the Democrats more progressive”, when it’s basically the opposite, people realize they can’t push the Democrats left so they’re choosing not to participate in the sham they call a “democracy”, but I guess this is one of those people who can only see politics within the confines of the US electoral system

    Edit: Not to mention all the other shit people have mentioned as having been actively worse under Biden, it makes it feels especially garbage and selfish that one is still pushing the idea of Biden being a human rights savior

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    As someone who thankfully doesn’t have the awful electoral choice that Americans do (I’m in the UK so although the choice is dire, it’s not frighteningly dire), the question I usually ask myself is “Which presidential candidate will result in the fewest deaths?” and, in this case, that seems to me to be impossible to answer.

    That said, in terms of “fitness” for office, Biden is literally a candidate who is unfit for office. Just this week he mixed up the border between Gaza and Egypt and spoke of it as “the Mexican border”. And he also mixed up Macron with Mitterrand… it’s really frightening. What’s he going to be like in one year, let alone two or three?

    • TeezyZeezy@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      For real. I used to think the cognitive shit was overblown but bro is deteriorating as we speak 😭💀