- cross-posted to:
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
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It’s not that they suck. My problem with them, as an independent, is they’ve positioned themselves as the moral high ground party while in fact they have no moral leg to stand on. Their leadership had a historic moral test when it comes to the Gaza genocide and they failed it. They had another test to put a great candidate to prevent another Trump presidency, but they bowed down to their corporate masters and picked Kamala.
It’s that level of fundamentalism and holier than thou attitude that alienates many people like me. They have zero fighting tactics against Republicans besides clutching pearls and shaming. Kamala’s website up until the election day had no “agenda section”. You can’t really tell what her campaign is about. I guess she’s perfect enough and shouldn’t be questioned, otherwise “racism and sexism”.
They need a complete reset and redo of the party and its principles. Until then, I’m a non voter.
I wish I was this eloquent and well thought out in my replies. This 100% what I would have commented if I didn’t have skill issues.
thank you 🙏🏻
How could they replace Harris with anyone? The primary voters picked Biden/Harris and Biden stepped down so how do they select someone else? The new candidate would need to fundraise as the Biden/Harris campaign can’t immediately dismantle and shift all funding to the new candidate at the drop of a hat. The new candidate would have had to make the connections to the delegates the Biden/Harris campaign had already done.
How do you think they could switch candidates to someone other than Harris months before the election?
I’m not disagreeing with anything you said but a non-voter is a trump voter.
This is the reality you now face.
You do understand how the trolley problem - and your electoral system works?The troll problem isn’t real
And that electoral system is rigged
A non vote is a non vote. A vote for “neither of these”.
Abstinence is not a sexual position, either.
And you understand we need to stop the trolley, not vote for people holding down the throttle, right?
Maybe there is a cultural difference because of our “compulsory” voting.
I’m sure there are plenty of aussies that would agree with you but I feel a bit like:
Well said. Thank you.
Very familiar with the trolley philosophical problem, thank you. But you’re arguing the lesser of both evils point of view, again. Which is not an excuse anymore. With all due respect, but it’s a horrible half-assed defeatist mentality that will never create any meaningful change. And yes, I’m very familiar with the electoral system, and the popular vote. Both of which clearly wanted Trump to win. Denying that this was what the majority of America wanted is delusional. What we should focus on is why on earth did the majority pick such a horrible president (Trump)? I’d love to see Democrats take on that self reflection and come up with better messaging and policies instead of acting like us independents owe them a vote…And no, “racism and sexism” ain’t it either.
I’m reminded by this quote from my one of favorite authors (Hunter S Thompson) in 1972:
“How many more of these stinking, double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote FOR something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?” ― Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72
We’re in 2025. Neither Trump nor the Genocide-supporting DNC deserves to be in power. That’s what a non-vote is.
And yet one of them is.
I am not from Australia had have no say. You did - and yet you did nothing. I understand it is hard to support something you fundamentally disagree with but the lesser of two evils is still better (eg: no Palestine resorts).
No one will agree with you or me on every policy, we are being asked to choose.BTW We have our own fascism problems here & donkey/informal voting is rife. Bad things absolutely could happen here.
Edit: I am from Australia
During the run up to the election I’ll admit i was guilty of this because it was so important for TFG to lose. I wish our bullshit system allowd for more than a fascist and center right party.
Now? Fuck that they aren’t leading like they should.
It’s exhausting.
How can they? Every outlet has been taken away from them in the last election.
Blasphemer! They are the golden calf! Kneel before your genocidal god else you will get more genocide!
I don’t care about any of the two political parties. I just vote based on who sounds the least insane, greedy, fake, and qualified for the job. And maybe someone who doesn’t suck billionaire toe and can tax the rich.
Have you thought about voting for the socialist candidate on the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)?
Haven’t seen a candidate in Colorado from that party yet. But hey, ill look at anything local if they meet the qualifications I put up in my first comment.
They only have a presidential candidate for Colorado.
I think its best the 3rd parties run for local governments first. Going straight for president is dumb.
I don’t think they have enough resources to run on every locality. They run on some, but right now running on every locality is impossible for them.
Why? They have ZERO chance of winning in this system. By voting that way you are only enhancing the ultra rights chance of winning.
You must be on some weird ass instance. I see tons of reasonable anger at democrats and Republicans alike. I don’t see upvotes for baseless tribal click bait like this tho
Nah, post something to /c/memes saying the US is a fascist nation and has been so for decades, it’s upvotes galore.
Imply the democrats have anything to do with it, and suddenly what’s the time in Moscow, how does Xi’s dick taste like, yadda yadda
and suddenly what’s the time in Moscow
ah, now I get the Hexbear sidebar clock joke
Oof sounds bad
Everyone here that defends democrats knows they’re not the best people.
Still immensely better than the alternative.
Classic failed thought, that. We are seeing the results of the Dems’ hard work right now, my friend.
Yup, cause democrats made sure to bring Zelensky in front of the media to just yell at him and renounce our support to save lives.
Democrats were saving lives by bombing children in Gaza.
deleted by creator
What the fuck are you on about? What do you think you’re responding to?
blueMAGA liberals would personally dismember every child in Gaza to keep the war in Ukraine going another six months
Genocidal fascists are indeed “not the best people”
Oh, and the anti immigrant, anti education, anti living wage, anti trans, super genocidal facists are sooooo much better, right?
Or were you talking about the fucking nobody who had literally ZERO chance of winning? There were really going to win it all and save everybody, what happened?
“Oh man what the fuck why did you diddle and torture my dog what the fuck is wrong with you?”
“Oh and that dude is much better? He wanted to skin him alive then kill him”
Oh, and the anti immigrant, anti education, anti living wage, anti trans, super genocidal facists are sooooo much better, right?
You were the one saying genocidal fascists are merely “not the best people”.
US Republicans are not democratic to begin with, they’re a christi fascist group that should have no right to exist as it inllinly makes the world better for a tiny tiny group of people over the backs of everyone else.
Having said that, the US Democrats are a godawful bunch of spineless dweebs that deserve everything that is coming for them. They lost the US elections because they still don’t understand what they should be, what their voter base wants or what that country needs.
Running a feckless campaign that refused to break with Biden’s admin on genocide is why we got this living hell. And running the most unlikeable woman in the country in 2016 is what made 2024 even a possibility.
Dems have fucked up terribly.
You’re absolutely right
That about sums it up.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
But fuck me, I’d love to vote for something else. And I’ll be honest, I have no idea how we get anything better.
I hear people saying to organize, but I can’t even imagine what that takes. I wonder if most Americans feel as helpless as I do in the face of this absolute bullshit.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
Unfortunately, much of what the Democrats represent is fascism.
Depends on what you mean by “much”? I’d argue the Democrats, on the whole, are liberals, not fascists.
I’d certainly prefer progressives and leftists though.
The support for Israel whole they genocide Palestine, thought… ugh. That can certainly be viewed as fascism, although where you draw the distinction between fascism and imperialism is up for debate. Not that imperialism is good either, just saying.
Liberals are the only people in history to vote for fascists to prevent class solidarity, and they’ve done it every time.
If you scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds.
So conservatives are… what? Not a group of people? Or in your view, are conservatives just fascists already?
Conservative liberals have the same ideology as liberals, just the pace is different. American politics have fucked too many people’s brains.
Yeah, I don’t buy that. Liberalism and Conservatism have different ideological foundations, philosophical traditions, and political histories.
If you don’t know the difference, that’s on you.
I have to make a lot of leaps to guess what you mean by “conservative liberal”. Do you mean a modern “social liberal economic conservative”? Aka a neoliberal?
Cuz yeah US Dems and Repubs are almost all economically neoliberal, sure. Is that what you mean?
The hard fact is that what the population votes for is what the population gets. They have completely given up their agency and just accept this impotent logic of “we’ll take whatever the most obvious/most apparently easy option is, that isn’t a Republican”. It’s a cyclical problem, the voters don’t care enough to force politicians to be good, and the politicians don’t care enough to court voters.
The hard fact is that what the population votes for is what the population gets.
It really isn’t, study after study has shown that popularity has basically no effect on policy.
…the candidate the population votes for. Did you need that to say “who”?
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say “you get what you fight for, and if you don’t fight you get what you get.”
I… haven’t really fought for anything. I believed the right things. I voted as best I could. But that clearly didn’t stop this.
I want to protect my ego and say I’m not a coward. Is there a distinction to be made between cowardice and simply not knowing what to do? I don’t know. I just know I’m trying my best, but maybe that’s just not enough.
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
It does not ignore that, rather it explicitly takes that into account.
The caveat to my statement would ONLY be “so long as we’re using this system.”
Please focus more on accurate logic.
I downvoted. Not because you criticized democrats, but because your stupid post says you get downvoted for that. No you fucking don’t. You almost always get up voted for it. This is a garbage bait post.
My comment history says otherwise. I get downvoted whenever I remind people that the Democrats are guilty of genocide.
That’s because you have to contort the truth significantly to make that even passably correct. It is more accurate to say the democrats aren’t going to stop selling arms to Israel as very few if any are actively engaged in fighting in Palestine.
I went digging through your comments a bit to see what you’re talking about, and no most are upvoted from what I saw. There are exceptions, like this one:
I think teaching the Democrats a lesson was worth it. They can’t commit genocide and pretend to be the lesser-evil. You can and should oppose both. I am of the personal opinion that evil hiding behind polite decorum is a greater threat than evil that doesn’t pretend to be good. You are free to disagree.
Yeah, no shit you get downvoted for stuff like this. People aren’t going to be very thankful you support their suffering being worsed. The people in Gaza also probably aren’t super happy that Trump has straight up supported the plan for genocide and taking the land.
Being critical of Democrats gets upvotes. Being a callous asshole who says Democrats “learning a lesson” (which I haven’t seen any evidence for) is worth all the suffering the Trump adm. will cause will deservedly get you downvotes.
You stopped at the first downvoted comment that confirmed your bias. Also what is your opposition to holding the Democratic Party accountable for genocide? They had 15 months to change course. They had the election cycle to get a hint and change their position. The DNC wouldn’t even allow a Palestinian American to speak at the convention. Trump and the Republicans being worse is never an excuse for genocide.
Here’s one: https://lemm.ee/post/53700851/17792640
Here’s another: https://lemm.ee/post/52746433/17573189
Another one: https://lemm.ee/post/34065555/12436103
Any comment that points out that it was the Democratic Party that allowed the genocide to happen and created the conditions for Trump to propose ethnic cleansing got downvoted. The Democratic Party could have stopped the genocide, they purposefully chose not to. You should oppose them for this not make excuses because the Republicans are going to be worse.
I’m not going to spend all day going through your comments to prove a point.
The first one is positive.
The second is zero, so probably 1 downvoted, assuming you didn’t remove your default upvote. Not really meaningful. It’s also dismissive of Trump to shift to Biden, but whatever.
The third if you notice the comment you replied to is positive and implying Biden supports genocide, so it once again proves that comments or posts that are critical of Biden or the Democrats generally get upvotes.
You have a confirmation bias. You want it to be true that comments critical of democrats are downvoted, but it isn’t. Usually they’re received positively, as long as you aren’t being an asshole.
The first one is positive.
The second is zero, so probably 1 downvoted
The third if you notice the comment you replied to is positive and implying Biden supports genocide
The only thing you’ve proven is that it is controversial enough for just as many people to upvote as have downvoted, your viewer just only shows the net result. Try viewing these in the browser for a more accurate assessment.
Liberals think Democrats aren’t half to blame for this shitty country being the way it is.
Some liberals.
i thought it was most liberals given that the nucleus of the “both sides” argument during the election was to characterize conservatives’ bad faith arguments about both the democrats and republicans being the same when it came to ghoulish behavior.
I genuinely feel like that was a coordinated campaign to erode voter trust and motivation with some trolling thrown in on top.
Catch any single lib and ask them straight up; “Do you think both sides are the same?”
I’m not interested in what libs think about that. I already know.
Can you give me the TL:DR?
Removed by mod
It’s an unfortunate trait of the reddit migrations. That place was crawling with die-hard liberals, not entirely dissimilar to scabies. It stands to reason a few of the uninitiated would find their way here.
In spite of how I started this comment, we must remember that they are of the working class, and further division is a benefit exclusive to the capitalist.
I feel that the further we sink into full-blown fascism, the more of them will become aware, and may be counted among allies one day soon.
I plan to speak to those who are willing to listen and learn. But beware the contentious fool, ever seeking a debate but never trying for understanding.
.world got the liberals that were too delusional for reddit.
I agree, but the fact that they even came here gives me hope that they are open to change. It’s the ones who stayed on reddit are the lost causes, I think.
What dem supporters need to understand is that support for Trump for many is people sticking two fingers up at the neoliberal order. All this talk of “woke” or whatever would all evaporate if people thought they were getting a fair shake. Of course it’s a bloody stupid way of protesting this like so as it’s basically asking the foxes to fix the hen house.
The key point is the neoliberal order hasn’t been successful by capitalist standards. GDP growth in western countries from 1985-2015 was slower than the 1955-1984 period which preceded neoliberal policies taking hold.
So what you ended up with was a system which actually slowed growth, removed welfare in a lot of cases, made housing unaffordable and really only seems to have succeeded in funnelling money into the hands of the 0.1%.
People have been convinced all kinds of scapegoats and whatever are to blame, but it’s pretty clear that they see mainstream politicians, as most embodied by the Dems, as the face of their issues.
The lack of self-reflection on the part of mainstream Dems is a huge, serious issue which has basically given Trump and Musk a blank cheque to implement fascism or at least very authoritarian capitalism.
As the industrial capacity of most nations was devastated in WWII or never existed until after 1945 we shouldn’t be surprised that we saw more growth during rebuilding than after everything was built so neoliberal policies aren’t the primary reason for slowed growth.
Neoliberal policies were introduced under Reagan and Thatcher before 1984 as both would have been in office for years before 1984 (Regan in 1980 and Thatcher in 1979) which should further complicate your claims.
Most of what has gone wrong is a failure to maintain the social contracts as we promoted a rather sociopathic understanding of growth at all costs in business schools starting in the 1970s.
It’s been 8 years of the lesser evil with Democrats and I’m sick of them. I cannot in good conscience support them any longer because they have time and again chosen to maintain the status quo.
The Biden administration did many things to help Americans, most notably the Inflation Reduction Act and the student debt forgiveness. But most of it is being dismantled by the current administration. And the Dems knew this would be the case. Yet they chose to go the executive order route or the highly diluted down IRA. It’s not the people’s problem that you cannot get your party members in line. Why would we vote for you if you cannot deliver?
Nancy Pelosi chose not to even allow the bill to prevent members of Congress from insider trading. Republicans are using it to line their pockets like never before. You want to have your cake and eat it too. Well the people are sick of your hypocrisy and it showed in the elections.
It’s been more than a month of rapid fire gutting of the US government. What has the party done as the main opposition besides “coming up with a strategy”? Because it’s impossible to do anything meaningful without revealing how much you have gained from the system.
The Democrats who truly care about change need to spin off their own party. That’s the only way enough people will be mobilized to make a meaningful difference in the next elections.
Libs think they’re the party it’s so sad lmao
Fuck both sides of the shitbird
I suppose “both wings of the shitbird” works too.
