- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
- cross-posted to:
- 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms.
It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board.
FAQ:
Why?
That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances.
How does this work?
Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed.
What about the posts?
Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled.
As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM.
Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)
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I strongly disagree with this decision and the reasoning behind it. Blahaj is, in my opinion, the best place for this community specifically because of the strong moderation and policies of Ada and other admins here.
Lemmy.world is also the worst instance I can think of outside of the big three tankie instances. It contributes further to the centralization of Lemmy as a whole (since 196 has been one of the most active communities on the entire platform). In my opinion, the .world crowd’s liberal and pro-colonialist/capitalist tendencies are a terrible fit for this community.
I’d have rather seen Blahaj defederate from .world than 196 move there, even if it meant less content and engagement. At least the cultural values of the community wouldn’t have been compromised.
Yeah, here come the shitlibs and sealions, I guess.
Genuinely clueless here: what are sealions in this context?
It’s a term in online parlance that makes reference to a comic, and it means someone who intrudes into someone else’s space and derails their conversations under the pretext of civil disagreement.
Thanks!
I never really liked this comic or the concept of sealioning because in this comic the ‘annoying’ entity is someone who is being outcasted based on their identity. In a comparison between bigots and marginalised groups, a marginalised group has more in common with the sea lion than the humans, and the bigots have more in common with the humans.
The comic is more logically read as bigots that are annoyed that the minority they’re discriminating against is defending their rights to exist.
I never really liked this comic or the concept of sealioning because in this comic the ‘annoying’ entity is someone who is being outcasted based on their identity.
While I understand and to some degree even share your feelings towards the original comic, the concept of sealioning that spawned from it is generally quite far divorced from that particular issue IME, which is why I focused my definition on the aspects of the behaviour that make it a PITA to deal with.
People who argue in bad faith while trying to maintain an aura of civility. The whole “I’m just asking questions” bs that tries to win by baiting you into getting angry.
It’s a trolling technique.
Thanks!
Weren’t .world admins also banning references to jury nullification and jokes about Luigi Mangioni killing more CEO’s?
Hard agree, 100%. If they want to jump ship, fine, but scorched earthing the old 196 is bullshit.
So I made !onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
We’ll see how it goes!
Agreed, this is an awful decision
To be honest, I think a big part of the 196 identity is that it comes from blahaj. Maybe the move will prove me wrong, but I can’t imagine the energy will be the same.
We joined this community because its on blahaj.zone.
We’re not moving
Seriously. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea should leave the community, so ultimately this may be a good thing, so long as this community is kept here and passed to other people.
I’m gonna be honest, my first response to reading this headline & image, as well as the small snippet of the body visible from my app’s home page, was “huh, bit early for an April Fool’s Day joke”. It would have been surprising enough if the move has been anywhere, but LW is the last non-tankie instance I would have expected, given the modding/admin drama they’ve been through recently.
I’m guessing LW was chosen because there’s a pre-existing (if inactive) community there already?
I’m not familiar with this drama. Lemmy.world was chosen because they have the resources to support another major community, their rules (as far as I am aware) align with ours, and they agreed to let us moderate our community by our rules with minimal interference.
Instead of making a unilateral decision on behalf of all of the members of this community without any kind of consultation, why don’t you move to L.W and allow people who do want to be here, who do want to be subject to the moderation rules of this instance, to step in and take the reins?
I say unlock the community and appoint a new mod team. Who said you could just close the whole community, just because you’ve volunteered to take out the trash?
yeah i’m tending to agree with this, especially as i’m skeptical that the culture will remain the same on lemmy.world. would be nice to have a fallback plan; and, indeed, this whole plan seems to have been orchestrated without consulting the community much at all
Once they’re gone, perhaps someone will unlock 196@blahaj with new mods? I’d kind of prefer that.
Or maybe increment up to 197 to tell them apart? IDK how this works.
Neutral observation: World’s userbase is incompatible with the attitudes and queer acceptance of nearly any community that originates from a place like Blahaj. Your comment sections will go to directly to shit. You will constantly be embattled by .world bigots. Sea-lioning and whataboutism will be common and things you never imagined would be controversial will be. Given the incoming administration I would stick to spaces carved out for the culture you want to see on a “r/196-like” board.
Yea, the community didnt give consent to be constantly embattled with people from a less queer friendly (let alone queer oriented) instance.
none of you have to be embattled with anyone. a simple report will do.
Unless you have neopronouns, obviously
if you look into my comment history and moderation history you will see that I have never had an issue with neopronouns. The narrative that we are doing this out of any form of queerphobia is false.
Hey, we can both misrepresent why you’re doing this. You’re already doing a great job of it.
??? genuinely confused by what you mean. would you be willing to elaborate?
this is why I have a large team of moderators who are all on board to filter this out. you guys haven’t seen behind the scenes, but there’s been plenty of this on lemmy.blahaj.zone.
Fuck da mods
For the love of god, leave this community here and just create a new mod team instead. This community being on Blåhaj specifically is a big plus for a lot of us
We won’t be moving to world with you. We like blahaj and we like 196 being on blahaj. If you don’t want to be here, you should instead just hand over your mod positions to people who do.
Absolutely foul decision. From the recent discussions i think it was very clear that the actual regular users and posters of 196 were opposed to moving to .world. What a clown show of a mod team.
Yeah, exactly, what the fuck?
A move that has been months in the making but only now is getting announced? Has it been announced previously and I missed it or something? I get the motivation for the move, but this feels like the kind of decision that the users of the 196 should have gotten more of a chance to at least give feedback on what other instance 196 should be migrating to.
while I am still confident this is the right choice of instance to transfer to, i do think you are most likely right. if I had a do over, I would have made a poll before anouncing this. unfortunately at this point, I feel like it’s a little late in the game to do a 360.
Why are you not engaging with the large number of users suggesting simply leaving this community unlocked and allowing new mods to take over? It’s very obvious you are avoiding responding to those comments. As you have acknowledged, this was handled badly with zero community choice or involvement. Few, if any commenters agree with the move or support it.
Nobody is asking for a “360” on whatever the mod team planned, the community can’t hold you hostage and force you to moderate a community when you don’t want to. Locking the community however should not be your choice to make. If you want to leave, leave. If the mod team and new instance are so important as you suggest, you’ll have a flourishing community on lemmy.world in no time.
But locking out the community with no consultation or notice is just cruel.
This seems like prime material for !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Seems like it’s better suited for !fediverselore@lemmy.ca and indeed I see db0 mentioned as such on the !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com post that was recently made. This is an interesting case study re the fediverse and communities:
- moving a community to a different instance works differently than it did on r$ddit bc whereas r$ddit only had one set of admins, on the fediverse there are numerous sets of admins – a fact that is crucial here
- moving to a new instance introduces a new set of defederated instances. for example the people on beehaw who could post on blahaj would no longer be able to do so on world.
- what is a community? the mods? the subscribers? the upvoters? the posters?
- what’s the best way to move a community? I think this experience suggests that “by surprise” doesn’t always work.
- I think the current blahaj mods could have made a “request for comment” post floating the idea, and let everyone have their say for a week or so. Perhaps at the end of the comment period the current mods could have said: “ok, but if we stay we’re going to need more mods” and that would have been a win all around. Or maybe we could have decided “there’s enough room for two 196s”. Shutting down a safe space – especially just as life is about to get a lot worse for trans people in the US – was bound to have pushback. But for all that, I think the mods were acting in good faith.
Who could possibly have foreseen that the users of the community wouldn’t like being told that it was closed and they’d have to move? Completely unpredictable behaviour, I’m sure
How about reopening the community, and allow a Blahaj admin to take over, asking for new mods and keep the community open?
Boo
u guys should mod a community on lemmy.world if they share ur values more but don’t steal our community
deleted by creator
we aren’t stealing your community. the people who built and facilitated this community are the people who are migrating this community.
I thought we left that attitude on Reddit, that’s a really disappointing and insulting take. The community is the community, not a handful of moderators. We’re grateful for the work y’all are doing, but, and I really don’t intend this as an insult, moderators are replaceable.
Setting aside what an awful & insulting response this (the community is the community, that’s why the word exists. Moderators are not the community)…
If you really believe this, then why lock the existing one? Obviously your well planned & executed move will be wildly successful, so there should be no need to lock the existing one. Unless of course 8 people who do caretaker duties on the community are in fact NOT the community, the people are and you need them, even if you don’t respect their opinions or contributions.
Yeah im sure 4.47k people subbed to the new community in a matter of 6 hours and its not just a bunch of bots used to validate this decision in the eyes of uninitiated bystanders. I mean the .world community is older than 6 hours, but it was completely dead for the last 3 months until yesterday.
This is the most reddit thing I’ve seen on Lemmy and that’s saying a lot
They’ll fit right in on LW.
Imagine believing that you “build and facilitate” a community by being a mod. What an asshole.
Yeah you are lmao because we can’t post here anymore. Unlocking it would be a step towards “unstealing” it.
The answer in that case would be for some users with a history of good faith interaction who are interested in doing so to reach out to the blahaj admins and ask if they can take over the running of this Community.
We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this.
Ada being a blahaj admin. If that is true then i wouldnt be too optimistic.
So the community never belonged to the users, it was only the mods’ ?
In that case then why even announce anything? Apparently it’s your community and you can do what you like with it, you take your ball and go home. I assume that means you’ll be making and posting all the content there yourself?
By moving a queer community to an openly hostile network you are stealing a community
I don’t see why if you’re unhappy with moderation decisions why you can’t start your own 196 over on world and leave this one alone
so you own this shit?
if you’re really going through with this, I dare you to call it 197
A community is not something you can “migrate”. You are not migrating a community, you are migrating a community space and in doing so, you are alienating said community. If you are unwilling to provide a safe space for said community, the community will either find new space or take their space back.
I think for people who feel safe on blahaj but aren’t guaranteed that safety on .world, it might feel like locking /c/196 on Blahaj and the moderators telling everyone to move to .world is a bit like stealing the community. Maybe /u/not_IO meant that 196 on Blahaj should remain unlocked so 196 can continue to exist on Blahaj, but obviously the question is who will moderate the community if the moderators all leave for .world?
I agree with most others that this is a huge mistake, if only for moving to .world. Another larger community being on that instance sounds like a bad idea for the lemmy ecosystem, even if you wanted to move from blahaj.zone. I will continue to post and browse on 196, but if I start to feel unwelcome there, I will make it known.
The problem is that you’re creating more work for yourself, even if you’re as on top of moderation as you were here. If you get the additional reach that you’re hoping for, you’ll have to work much quicker at removing shit content than you did here. Now that 196 isn’t on the openly queer instance, more bigots will feel like they can interact. This could lead to the community becoming less accepting in the long run, as queer people feel less safe and welcomed.
I have thick skin and often run towards conflicts other people won’t, but I know that many users here aren’t like me. If I start to feel it weighing on me, be confident that things have gone too far for most people on this instance.
Well, shit… 196 was probably the core of my feed, and my instance doesn’t federate with .world.
Yeah that’s a big concern. LW is probably one of the most-defederated instances after the tankie ones. I’d be using lemm.ee as a safe generic instance that will reach the widest audience, if that’s the goal. (Though personally I really liked 196 being on blahaj.)
Yeah :(
It’s pretty clear what the community consensus here is.
You can leave, and start a new 196 community wherever you like. Leave this one as is, and people can choose to follow one, both or neither.
Locking it here is very hostile to the community and a categorically bad move. I hope the instance admins can step in, remove the mods and unlock the community.
I’ve seen a lot of talk about how this move changes the admins the community will be under, but very little about how this will change the randos that pass through. The mods keep saying this won’t change anything, that the moderation will stay the same, etc, but the reason this community is the way it is is that there are a lot of locals that find it. When the new community shows up on l.w’s local page, it will bring in a far different crowd. Their posts, comments, and up/down votes will change the community, and there’s no amount of moderation that will fix that.
Mods, this is why people are mad you made this change without asking anyone. Many of us do not want an influx of .world users into this space because we know what kind of politics and biases they’ll bring with them and that, even if you moderate the bigots, the normies will still likely overpower the queer voices this community is known for.
