- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
Suck it micro USB, mini USB, and lightning! 🪫🔋
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Eu once again doing more to improve my life than my own government (tax holiday).
Canada?
The very same. I saved a few dollars here and there which I would be more than happy to trade for some decent regulations on the things I buy.
What’s funny is that I still got taxed for the expensive stuff I bought, just not a few take out orders and one toy I bought. Success?
I heard your grocery stores just increased prices to match previous post-tax prices.
My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
USB-C doesn’t have speeds, it’s just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.On the downside, you can’t tell what the port supports by just looking at it.
I wouldn’t have even known what to google to learn this. Thanks for sharing! I actually love the C form factor I didn’t realize that was kinda what made it C and not what it could do. I appreciate your response.
Wikipedia is a good resource
You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).
What happens if the better technology is invented by a company not part of that chosen tech club? They get to block it’s adoption?
If it’s really that much better, it’ll be used for other things and catch on, then they’ll be a part of the group.
How can it be used for other things, if this law makes that illegal?
It doesn’t. It only applies to “smartphones, tablets and cameras”, according to the article.
Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,"
Source: the article
Well now I don’t know what to believe. Anyone have a link to the legislation?
[…] have to be equipped with […]
That does not mean only equipped with
Law does not forbid having multiple charging ports.
I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.
How fast is the wireless charging these days? I’d be surprised if it’s anywhere near the higher USB PD 3.1 modes.
I’m not sure. I know I could get a high speed one but tossing my phone on at night and currently it lasts all day most days. Same with my watch.
USB-C isn’t the best option at all because USB c isn’t USB c. It only standardises the port and connector but there are many different connectors.
https://hackaday.com/2022/12/06/usb-c-introduction-for-hackers/
Thanks for the article, cool read!
It’s crazy, isn’t it? But it’s not a single article… I think there are ten more.
This is an interesting article, but I think that this standardisation is exactly for port being the same, not for pinning specific implementation of the 600+ pages long standard.
Fair. I only use cables, but my assumption would be that they would adapt to new standards. Which is effectively what this is doing to standardize it, IMO.
I don’t think that will occur, because what’s the point of developing USB-G if you’re not allowed to use it in a product?
Why wouldn’t they be allowed to use it?
Computers have room for multiple ports and is where a new standard would crop up anyway even without the law, just like where USB-C started out.
Completely fair to assume that the complete fucking idiots who create these laws have the faintest fucking clue about what they’re doing. Don’t be so sure! This law certainly doesn’t anticipate advancement. And why would it? That would require competent people to have power to legislate, and we already know that’s impossible. Great question!
If you don’t know the answer it is of course perfectly acceptable to just not provide one.
Now for those swappable batteries
Including cars.
Drive in, swap non-proprietary batteries with an autoloader, drive out. Done.
That is something that I wish would come true. This would also open EVs to the industry in some new ways. Currently it kinda sucks if you have machines that have to be able to run the whole day without big interruptions. When you’re able to just swap the batteries in like 5 Minutes this machines don’t have to rely on fossil fuels that much and are open to be replaced by electric ones.
What I’m thinking about are machines like tractors for farming. During the summer it happens that they are running for 8+ hours without interruptions. Building a battery this big will be quite challengening. However, if you’re able to swap out the batteries after like 2 hours and then continue with work you effectively solved one of the biggest problems with not that much of a hassle.
I think another challenge for farming equipment would also be the uneven terrain, risk of things coming up and piercing or shorting the battery, and also overheating. The first one can be fixed by installing a metal plate like Tesla did after cars kept blowing up. The overheating part might be a bit more tricky. I suppose an air conditioner dedicated to the battery would work alright.
The other thing is, using it day in and day out, from sunrise til sunset or even later, will probably wreak havoc on the battery health. I know EVs in general suffer from this, too, but I feel like it’s even worse for farming equipment, because you know they’ll get a let of extreme use, whereas a lot of people with EVs might only use it for a commute into the city, or a trip to the shops
One final thing, just based off the farmers I know (used to live in the country), a lot of them, maybe even the vast majority, have no interest in upgrading until they have to. If it works, it works. Anything new might not work as well, and require precious time to learn how to use well or properly. They tend to skew towards the older generation, and emissions just aren’t really a concern. Since EV fires tend to make the news a lot of the time, if they’ve got a perception that getting an electric tractor might cause a bushfire and burn their entire farm down, even if that’s very unlikely, and maybe even more likely with a diesel, I don’t think you’ll find them very willing
(This is specifically in regards to Australian farmers I’ve known, perhaps farms elsewhere are smaller, or farmers elsewhere a bit more willing to take upgrades)
The other thing is, using it day in and day out, from sunrise til sunset or even later, will probably wreak havoc on the battery health. I know EVs in general suffer from this, too, but I feel like it’s even worse for farming equipment, because you know they’ll get a let of extreme use, whereas a lot of people with EVs might only use it for a commute into the city, or a trip to the shops
That’s certainly a problem I didnt thought about. Driving farming away from being forced to use fossil fuels devinetively is one hell of a challenge and I still have zero Idea on how to achieve this in some practical way.
Also I can only agree with you. Where I live the attitude that you should use something as long as it runs devinetively applies.
And range just dropped by half. Going somewhere without a loader? Have fun charging way more often.
Would still be nice for road trips in the civilized world though.
Yes and no. No need to hot swap massive EV batteries. Rapid is fast enough. But yes so the EV can be upgraded. The batteries go obsolete quicker than they degrade. So make it so we can swap the batteries and keep the rest running. In fact, just right-to-repair the whole car. In fact, the whole everything!
It is great until the ownership and business model comes into consideration.
That’s actually the next goal
The benefit is that by being standardized, there will be less proprietary cords and adapters. And the capability of USB-C should be adequate for sometime with the power and data transfer.
One issue, is that not all USBC cords are of the same quality. I found this recently when trying to find a cord that can be used for an external SSD, and video for a monitor. Some cords worked, the rest did not. All the cords could be used for charging, but after that, all bets are off.
The problem is that USB-C is a plug not a standard even in charging some cables won’t do as much power as others (though at least they communicate that to the power source).
I do however fully support the total USB-C rollout. In my everyday carry there’s now only one plug (2 USB-C one USB-A) and some cables that I can charge everything with, my laptop, my phone my Powerbank and even those few devices that are still USB-B micro (I just carry one USB-A to micro cable).
USB C cables have been all over the shop since the beginning, and chargers. I remember even 5 years back the problems they had. Part of that is the cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality between either end and if one end is dumb or doesn’t respond properly you get the 5V 2A default. On the other hand if you have a USB C 4.0 lightning cable and two compliant devices then potentially you could be powering 2 monitors, keyboard, mouse, wifi, a graphics card even AND charging through one cable. It’s actually incredible when it works properly.
cables and chargers are “active” in the sense they negotiate charge rates and other functionality
Just so you know “active cable” already has a separate meaning: They repeat the USB signals somewhere in the middle for a longer transmission distance.
I think the better idea is to pick up the terminology from the USB-IF, they speak of electronical marking, or e-markers in the cables. It’s usually a small chip integrated in one of the plug assemblies.
I bought a really nice, high quality, very fast charging and data transfer cable, and there’s one device I own that it will not charge at all. My assumption is that it probably doesn’t have a charging control chip or something else required to work with that cable. It doesn’t work with any other USB-C to C cables I own either. It has to be charged with the USB-A to C cables included in the box
Can we bring back the charging as well, and not just the USB cable… Oh, and while you’re at it, screws instead of glue, to replace batteries would be awesome.
Thx!
There’s a rule coming into effect in 2027 that enforces user replaceable batteries for devices in the EU. https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027
while 2027 is better than nothing, I still wonder why it took them so long. Glue in smartphones has been around for probably a decade now.
Also, I think, anything that has a battery, should be user replacable… even teeny-tiny earbuds.
To allow the manufacturers to adapt and phase out?
For USB sure… it’s kinda “newish”. But, I mean, they could’ve intervened much sooner, when glue became the standard for assembling phones.
Totally agree! It’s seemingly gotten worse recently too. My phone is 5 years old and I was still able to replace the battery at home but it took special tools and a hair dryer. The newest Pixels and Galaxy phones look impossible to do with my current skillset.
Things like Fairphone and the HMD Skyline should be the norm going forward.
There’s always an implementation period with these things, also with the USB thing, to allow companies to build and sell phones that are already in the pipeline. Expect, just as with the USB thing, replaceable batteries to become a common sight quite soon and ubiquitous by 2027. You can already get quite decent smartphones with replaceable batteries but it’s the usual suspects Fairphone, Gigaset, and (at least one model of) Samsung, those would also exist without the regulation. The “oh shit they actually passed it we’ll need to re-engineer things” models from everyone else still aren’t on the market.
And before anyone brings it up: Yes, you can make them waterproof.
Waterproof
Strongly agree!
Looking back, I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always, just worded in a sense like it’d benefit the customer.
FFS, just add some rubber… We’ve used rubber in condoms for centuries (kinda) succesfully, what made them think glue’d be better… I ain’t gonna put glue on my ding-dong, if that’s what they’re after all these years.
I suspect this was only an argument to make them hard to repair, as always
They don’t mind the benefit, for sure. But as somebody who worked in manufacturing support jobs up until a couple years ago, I’m 90% confident it’s just faster and cheaper to glue them. Probably easier to automate too. Again it just comes down to money.
Just thinking of the scale of R&D for something like a flagship phone, there are a LOT of person-hours dedicated to manufacturability.
Based AF eu
Sadly, it still allows to glue batteries with very little requirements.
Good 👍 I just hope nothing replaces USB-C anytime soon
Thx EU, glad to live here
While this is good news, the likes of Apple will still find ways to be “compliant” while still being total assholes about it. e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones. And they’ll do the same when mandates about repairability come in - all of a sudden the battery will have a bunch of expensive DRM’d up the ass circuitry attached to it that will cripple the phone if its not recognized or registered by one of their techs and means Apple can kill old phones by being “out of stock” of the battery.
e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they’ll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones.
Just so you know, there are others who have slow speed on USB Type-C already. My mother’s Galaxy A52 has a USB Type-C port that has only USB 2.0 support for data transfer, but with USB PD 3.0 PPS charging up to 25 W.
To me it’s legitimate to use USB Type-C for better power delivery even if the chipset runs only at USB 2.0 speeds for data transfer. But hobbling a fast chipset just for product segmentation would be shitty. It is something I could see Apple doing though.
This is absolutely true,however the EU has proven to be not someone you mess with. Apple has already tried shenanigans to stop side loading and got beaten by the EU to comply with the rules.
Only suck it lightning. It still allows standard chargers like micro USB and mini USB
Are you sure? The EU parliament explicitly mentions USB C as the new mandatory standard.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32022L2380
USB C is mentioned in annex Ia and as an example in articles 11 and 12. As I understand previous articles, it is possible to use other standards that satisfy citeria from article 9.
Open standard W
will ti 84 calculators have to follow this?
“Starting today, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, speakers, keyboards and many other electronics sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port,” the EU Parliament wrote on social media X.
seems like probably yes!
yay
1.1. handheld mobile phones; 1.2. tablets; 1.3. digital cameras; 1.4. headphones; 1.5. headsets; 1.6. handheld videogame consoles; 1.7. portable speakers; 1.8. e-readers; 1.9. keyboards; 1.10. mice; 1.11. portable navigation systems; 1.12. earbuds; 1.13. laptops.Seems no, but I may be wrong.
Hell to the yeah!
With the iPhone 14 no longer being sold the specs of the rumored SE 2025 make a lot more sense.
about time
The chargers l have work just fine. Why do I need to change them?
To not have to buy and carry around several different cables for your devices
