There are plenty of liberals from the PRC, especially from the big liberal cities such as Shanghai. There are still a whole bunch of NED funded media/social media accounts in the mainland in general.
In my experience meeting such classmates they’re not that different from some of the HK/TW international students as they all tow the same line.
I have met a few that are not liberal, however my thought here is always, why would they chose to come here, Some for the international understanding, but moat will chose a place with an ideology they think will align with them
One of the main reasons might be the fact that some of the highest ranked universities are located in the US, UK, Australia etc.
Competition is quite intense in the mainland and usually a degree from a university from these countries will add some prestige to their resumes (sometimes we refer to those as ‘plating it in gold’).
moat
*most
moist*
I wouldnt worry, these chinese ameriboos pose no threat to china really since the material reality speaks for itself. Look at how joshua wong ended even with complete backing of the West lmao.
But like maybe confront her propaganda?
I wouldn’t. If she really is that prominent and dangerous within China, the MSS likely already knows about her. If she isn’t, you’re just wasting their time. (And possibly, if the story breaks in the liberal media, creating a martyr).
Plus, you’re gonna have it on your record that you were in contact with a foreign security service. Don’t think that won’t come back to bite you later on – the US government has sent communists to jail for less.
A lot of expats will try incredibly hard to prove that they are “one of the good ones” to try and fit in with the racist white people in their new country, by constantly badmouthing their home country and talking about how “superior” white culture is. They get empty, shallow relationships with people where they spend their entire time licking boot and either being mocked or fetishised.
(EDIT: this person is NOT from Taiwan), so they probably don’t even know that they’re spreading misinformation, they probably think they’re being genuine. Not sure there’s anything you can do about this though. Sure, they’ll spread misinformation, but it’s only stuff the gullible racist white folks around her already belief (or want to believe). You confronting her or trying to disprove her claims will be ignored, because she’s Chinese and you aren’t, therefore she knows more in every circumstance automatically, as long as she agrees with the western status quo of course.
Just…try not to be bothered by it. Maybe speak to her in private, try to understand why she says the things she does, try to understand her as a person, maybe even make friends with her, she might not be as horrible as you initially think. You’re not going to change any minds trying to “debunk” everything she says, and you’re only going to make enemies that way. You need to be friendly and sincere, you don’t need to hide your opinions, but you don’t need to shove them in people’s faces either. People aren’t going to change their mind just because they were “proven wrong.” People just double down on bad ideas if they’re challenged on them like that. It needs to be a slow, steady, educational process, teaching people how to understand sources and judge claims and challenge their preconceived notions.
Do it
I doubt anything will come of it, but if you ask me? Report her. Every little action matters, and just remember- these libs will almost certainly do the same if the opportunity arose.
lol no, don’t be a snitch. Nobody likes a snitch.
Why is this ignorance upvoted?
Shame on this liberalism. Shame on your cowardice, your weak will.
1 month old account and already spreading nonsense.
Are we that full of anarcho-liberals who think good things and bad things are exactly the same, all cops are bastards and government and authority are bad that we just accept “snitching” is bad?
No. Reporting counter-revolutionaries and liberals is good when done to socialist authorities.
Do you think a revolution will succeed or endure in the face of external attempts at overthrow, pressure, etc without snitching? Without reporting liberalism? Counter-revolutionaries? Traitors? etc. Of course not.
Why then do you hate China? Why do you hate an in-power communist party? Why then do you take the position that there is harm to socialism, to communist parties, to the global proletariat from reporting backwards, anti-social, improper, and treasonous behaviors? Should people not be held to account?
Do you think counter-revolution springs out of thin air? How do you think the events of June 4th occurred? Did they materialize out of nowhere? Or was there a build-up of exactly this kind of person, this kind of thinking, forming networks, organizing, etc. How do you think terrorism and CIA spy rings operate but through people like this, their friends, their acquaintances, family they pressure or trick into revealing info. Every little piece of information is helpful for understanding the whole, the puzzle. For building leads, understanding relationships, uncovering persons of interests.
That’s a whole lot of assumptions, ad hominems and straight up insults. Reporting a student will not bring about a global revolution, get a grip. I’m not even going to bother responding to your rage-filled post.
Well your take upsets me. It is wrong, dangerous and like all liberalism should be called out.
Global revolution. What a flippant, ridiculous response. What a myopic response. That the only things worth doing are those that immediately smash that communism button, that global communism button and if things don’t do that they’re not worth doing. People with that thinking have been backstabbing and sabotaging real gains for the proletariat for a hundred years. You want to leap to the finish line but that’s not how it works. You want magic not Marxism, you want tolerance for counter-revolution, for the people who commit genocides, who subjugate the working class, who commit a thousand horrible, mind-tearing horrors upon humanity under their system.
They had made their bed, let them reap the consequences. My pity is for the workers.
Idealism is an infection you must fight. If you want to object to the idea that China needs this info, go ahead, I agree that’s debatable though I think no modern spy agency is ever going to say “too much info” in the computerized age where plotting networks of people and interactions, metadata is the primary way of understanding and finding targets of real interest (NSA for example mainly scrapes and saves metadata, not content, but relationships, times, people, places). But that’s not what you said, what you said was that snitching was bad. Steps, process. What are they? What is historical development? What is building things slowly but surely? What is guarding the revolution? What is countering liberalism at every step and why must we do that? Why must we not allow a bit of liberalism to remain in stock people like you claim, what harm can it cause. An individual is only part of a group that becomes a whole. An individual liberal is not a threat, a group of liberals are but one cannot arrest just the group while leaving the individuals on their way, one cannot surveil the group without the individuals.
How does revisionism and counter-revolution start anyways? It starts with making little allowances, with giving an inch, with saying “oh what’s the harm of this person or that” until they’re everywhere and until the structure is rotten and the USSR’s collapse is what you get.
Mao’s “Combat Liberalism” has some good thoughts on this subject.
Well your take upsets me. It is wrong, dangerous and like all liberalism should be called out.
I made a general post against snitching, you then went on and made a bunch of assumptions:
Why then do you hate China? Why do you hate an in-power communist party?
That’s a leap, isn’t it. I hate snitching therefore I hate China and its communist party. lol what?
Global revolution. What a flippant, ridiculous response.
That’s what you said!
Do you think a revolution will succeed or endure in the face of external attempts at overthrow, pressure, etc without snitching?
You didn’t specify which revolution, so I assumed you’re talking about a global revolution.
Then you go on to make more assumptions:
You want magic not Marxism, you want tolerance for counter-revolution, for the people who commit genocides, who subjugate the working class, who commit a thousand horrible, mind-tearing horrors upon humanity under their system.
I want all that because I think snitching is bad?
You don’t want a discussion, and you’re not answering sincerely. You saw an opportunity to virtue signal and rant about all sorts of things that have nothing to do with me or what I said.
You should try to change her mind first and show her evidence of how much the CPC has improved the country compared to what they had before 1949 or contemporary countries like India.
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Can’t you just ignore her and let her be? It’s coming off as if you’re looking for revenge because she doesn’t like you tbh.
The only reason the question is anything like a logical possibility is because she’s Chinese and the other libs around you presumably aren’t. It’s racist to single her out.
There are countless things you could be doing to combat liberalism. Snitching on international students isn’t one that you should be doing. Think positively rather than negatively. As in, what can you do to build communism wherever you are? Not, how do I tear down what others are building?
By this I mean, I’m not sure that you should even think of targeting the political organisations that she’s involved in; it won’t address the elephant in the room – the fact that the main political parties in your country are likely to be bourgeois, not to mention the fact of the actual bourgeois. It’s like swatting flies instead of sweeping away the massive turd.
That’s an approach for foreign-born Chinese.
For students born and raised in China and studying abroad, it’s a different matter. They have a very clear, first-hand experience of conditions in the West, conditions in China, and how the Western media portrays China. Unless OP has spent as much time in China as they have in the US, telling them about the reality of the difference isn’t going to wash well with them. Yet another case of Westerners telling Chinese how to act, even if the politics are reversed.
From the way you describe her, they already know.
Ok judging from reading the entire spectrum of replies to this, I would advise not reporting this person. I’ve had convos with tons of naive young chinese people who are basically obsessed with consumer culture. They can be irritating yes but it’s probably not worth your time, and then the finger would be immediately pointed at you. And just basic morality… lol. unless you have hard evidence they are doing serious crimes, not worth your time.
I don’t think it really matters since I see her type get clowned on constantly on Chinese sites, but if you feel like she’s really up to something it might be a good idea.
See, shit like this is why I’m worried for the future of socialist project in China, despite what folks here say
Many times liberals and their media/social media within the PRC flare up each time a democrat is elected in the US as they are given funding to spout and spread their bullshit (a term we usually refer to as ‘dog food’).
To be honest the environment was much worse a decade or more ago. Imagine being denounced as a pinko by Chinese liberals inside the PRC in the 2010s and prior just for saying a single positive thing about their own country lol.
Talked to a few of them recently and hearing their fear of the next generation being so “deeply red” was interesting, because they were hoping that everyone would become even more liberal and end up like Japan, full of pretty anime and pop culture while being subservient to the West.
Let her go, let her tarry… I mean come on, she’s showing her ass at this moment…
On the other hand, take notes, but if she gets prosecuted for treason, you can always give evidence…
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WTF no, she might be reactonary, but dont go and snoop on her
Don’t denounce. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion.
You can have an opinion and trying to understand material reasons why people have other opinions is valuable. However, this obviously only goes so far. Should Nazism be treated as an equal legitimate political ideology worthy of respect?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If a Nazi wants to think and articulate nazi things, it’s on us as a society to argue against it, not to forbid thoughts. Here’s a interesting article of the culture of denouncing during Nazi and GDR times:
https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/creating-a-culture-of-denunciation/
And about the concept of freedom of thought: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_thought You might recognize that especially repressive regimes resorted to curtail freedom of thoughts in the past.
Counterpoint: I think we should totally forbid nazis
Question, Gulag, Gallows, Guillotine or The wall?
Here’s a cartoon of a liberal philosopher for ya.
This is referring to the paradox of tolerance.
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It’s a paradox because if you suppress other opinions you yourself become intolerant.
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I agree that actions have to be regulated as they are by laws. But opinions and thoughts are free and this freedom is absolute.
Even Popper acknowledged that it’s a paradox and stated: I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
These thought are also formalizef by Rawls: Rawls asserts that a society must tolerate the intolerant in order to be a just society, but qualifies this assertion by stating that exceptional circumstances may call for society to exercise its right to self-preservation against acts of intolerance that threaten the liberty and security of the tolerant.
The dedicated reader might notice that he refers to acts of intolerance but not to opinions.
Popper, Karl (2012) [1945]. The Open Society and Its Enemies. Routledge. p. 581
Rawls, John (1971). A Theory of Justice. Harvard University Press. p. 220
I don’t think it’s intolerant to suppress Nazis.
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I mean, if she’s shown her ass around here publicly, you don’t need to tip 'er off to others that she’s a special kind of person… just take notes…
