Note:
I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!
“Those are Self defence mass executions you fucking antisemite” - Israel probably.
- And subsequently the US
Coward yanks
My first reaction was just “what the fuck”. I still can’t believe what I’m reading, although I probably should have. I thought the IDF was better than a mass execution of civilians, but apparently not. They really want that Nazi comparison.
They genocide because they know any criticism can be shut down immediately and unequivocally with screeches of antisemitism.
“You think wiping Palestinians off the planet is bad? Clearly you want to wipe out the Jews!”
It really is that simple.
Does not surprise me. A military force that stoops so low that they kill white flag wielding civilians in cold blood has already reached rock bottom.
Hamas is shit for putting terror and attacking Israel above taking care of their own civilians. Israel is shit for mass-execution of innocent civilians.
They’re both shit, but we all know this will only end with Israel exterminating an entire population, which is even shittier.
but we all know this will only end with Israel exterminating an entire population,
It’s so goddamn hilarious that because of history and The Holocaust we aren’t allowed to bring up how deliciously ironic it is that a group of people that were rounded up for extermination are summarily rounding up a group of people for extermination.
I can’t wait to see how this plays out in history.
Who’s not allowed to bring it up? I’ll say it all day. I give no fucks that Israel doesn’t like it, fuck them.
Keep in mind the Holocaust was all Jews, and Israel here in no way represents all Jews, as much as they’d like to.
It fits in perfectly with history unfortunately. Members of group A inflict horror on members of group B. Some time passes, and some members of group B choose to inflict horror on group C and/or group A.
It’s all just radical subsets of the population, who would love nothing more than to represent their whole group.
I would just like to point out that the Holocaust was not JUST Jews. Other people were persecuted as well (such as LGBTQ+ peeps)
Disabled people and political dissidents too. But LGBTQ+ people is especially apt to point out in this day and age.
And black people.
The Nazi campaign was mostly focused on Jews because they were the biggest and easiest to target minority but the Nazi’s killed everyone that wasn’t from “their group of people” and tried to replace that population with their own (expanding the Lebensraum)
Pretty much. If you weren’t white and straight and a sycophant, you were on the chopping block. Normally women would probably be too, except they wanted that to have more Aryan babies 🤮
The Roma (aka Gipsies).
Everybody forgets them, strangelly.
I noticed that the holocaust page on Wikipedia conveniently forgets to state the other non-Jewish victims, then I realized that the Holocaust with a capital H only includes Jewish victims according to Wikipedia itself:
The term Holocaust is sometimes used to refer to the persecution of other groups that the Nazis targeted,[4][6] especially those targeted on a biological basis, in particular the Roma and Sinti, as well as Soviet prisoners of war and Polish and Soviet civilians.[7][8][9] All of these groups, however, were targeted for different reasons.[10] By the 1970s, the adjective Jewish was dropped as redundant and Holocaust, now capitalized, became the default term for the destruction of European Jews.[11] The Hebrew word Shoah (“catastrophic destruction”) exclusively refers to Jewish victims.[5][6][7] The perpetrators used the phrase “Final Solution” as a euphemism for their genocide of Jews.[12]
I don’t really know what to think of this.
Apparently some don’t like to include LGBTQ, the disabled, and non-Jews under the term “Holocaust” despite shit like this:
“All Poles will disappear from the world,” Heinrich Himmler said, It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles.”
If anyone is well versed in genocide studies and history, please enlighten us!
Thanks for remembering.
Isreal is nothing but a continuation of the holocaust. The mass migration of jews from their nation of origin to a colony is genocide from all the European nations and America who supported and funded its creation. It was final solution part 2. Not even an original one, the nazis had the Same idea first for Madagascar
That’s ahistorical and makes no sense. So, the UN created Israel to genocide the Jews?
Don’t agree with the comment you replied to, but I guess they meant “created Israel to get rid of the Jews in Europe”
Correct. Thank you for the positive interpretation. I can offer sources if you like.
It doesn’t hurt to add sources in any case. I know that UN created the state but I doubt anyone documented the reason for doing that especially such one
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Yeah, people should’ve figure out by now that in dimensions of their murdering, the disparity of strength (and hence of responsability in their use) and the moral standards expected from the dictatorial resistance movement of a long occupied land vs those of a supposedly Democratic nation (and Israel has long leveraged their image as Western-style Democracy all the while the place turns out to - surprise surprise - culturally be yet another of the racist theocracies so common in the region), Hamas is to Israel as a flea is to a rabid dog.
Everytime anybody goes “yeah, but Hamas” they’re doing the propaganda game for Israel.
We’re way beyond a proportionate response by this point and into the style of “payback” the Nazis did in France when after being attacked by the Resistance Française they would go to a French village and chose and kill 10 people for each German the Resistance had killed.
But it is a both sides situation. Both sides have the same goal. Externinating the other. One side is just much more powerful.
Yes I’m sure all those dead little girls just wanted to exterminate the Jews.
But the dead Israeli babies DO want to exterminate the Palestinians? What a weird point you’re trying to make.
Yeah you could make the same sarcastic remark that way too
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It’s overall an awful situation, there isn’t any “both sides” because both sides are shit and would happily genocide one-another. One side just happens to have the means to actually carry out that genocide, making them especially more shit.
What’s the morally correct thing to do: Am I supposed to put a Gaza flag on my social medias and gush about how Israel is terrorizing and destroying them and say that I stand by Hamas? I already shit on Israel because of their genocide. However, Hamas would (once again) do the same exact thing if given the chance.
Specifically picking a side is stupid because if Hamas could, they’d do the exact same thing.
It really muddles the reality of what is happening.
Why not? It’s the one fundamental differences when comparing this conflict with the Nazi extermination of jews (and others).
The jews didn’t massacre German civilians before their attempted annihilation.
It’s not much of a difference, in the entire score of things, but both Hamas and the idf have blood on their hands. Neither have done things benificial to the Palestinian people. The October attack was a strategic mistake of the highest order.
At the time support for the Netanyahu regime was falling, people were demonstrating. They had literally nothing to gain. They actually played right into bibi’s hand.
Not that I approve of the Israeli reaction, it’s horrible and indeed a case study on the banality of evil. It is completely outside of all proportions. To say that only one side is to blame, is wrong. Without oct 7 this would never have happened. To deny that you would have to prove that it was a false flag attack.
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I do get the analogy of the Warsaw ghetto, I’ve used the same analogy before.
But the relationship between hamas and the Israeli governement is very curious. If say I’m not on the both sides kind of thing, but on the ‘one of three’. The Palestinian people are suffering under the war mongering of both hamas and the idf. Just like not one hundred procent of Israelis are behind the actions of the idf, most Palestinian people aren’t responsable for the actions of Hamas.
It’s way more complicated than the binary issue you lot try to make it off it and frankly that is tiring and obtuse.
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I’m not disputing that that’s the case. But simplifying a conflict that is almost a hundred years old into a binary blame model is silly.
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For me the problem with the “both sides” argument is that it misses the symmetry issue.
Oh and I would agree that the symmetry is way off. It’s only that the conflict is so old and complex that putting it down to a binary good/bad narrative is quite simplistic.
No one in their right mind would call both sides innocent either. The amount of guilt and the assymetry can be argued about. I tend to agree that the Palestinian people are suffering way more than anyone in that part of the world. It seems that neither hamas nor the IDF care about them at all.
Technically, Hamas aren’t Palestinian in origin to begin with, they’re from a group that once controlled Egypt and their power over Gaza Strip was maintained by the Israeli Government via various means including directly being funded by them and neighboring nations. So, it isn’t their people. The don’t give a fuck if Palestine faces genocide, never have.
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Nah bro Hamas is an organization. From Egypt.
That’s like saying any socialist country is necessarily Prussian
The Society of Muslim Brothers who controlled Egypt in the late 60s formed a charity in Gaza Strip in 1973 called Mujama al-Islamiya Islamic who then became known as Hamas in 1987.
You’re an absolute idiot if you think those two organizations are completely unrelated.
No one said they are unrelated.
That’s like saying any socialist country is necessarily Prussian
So you legitimately think every socialist country is essentially directly caused by Prussians? That’s your take?
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If Greece sent radicalized people to the USA and created an explicitly radical Greek organization a few decades ago and somewhere inbetween they changed their name, then yes it would be exactly like that.
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[citation needed]
The Society of the Muslim Brothers first founded in Egypt in 1928 was able to establish in the neighboring nation in 1973 as Mujama al-Islamiya Islamic charity affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which later became Hamas in name in 1987. They also were the most prominent political group in Egypt from 1967 until 2013, when their president over Egypt was overthrown.
Hamas is from Suuni Islamist Egypt, for Suuni Islamist Egypt.
Yeah but that doesn’t support your claim.
My claim is that Hamas’ Origins were outside of Palestine, that Hamas doesn’t give a fuck about Palestinian Genocide. I gave you a concise uncontested timeline of their formation. Maybe you’re just too stupid to get it.
If that was your claim then you phrased it quite poorly. You said they aren’t Palestinian in origin, which is blatantly false. I reocmment you rephrase your original comment so that the rest of us stop misunderstanding you.
The reason Hamas is in existence is because their peoples’ homes being taken and the Palestinians being killed constantly, for years. What would you do if your nation has lived in their land for ages, and a people came and took your family homeland and killed your family, and took neighborhoods and whole swaths of areas, then penned you up so that you couldn’t exit or enter your country without their permission…don’t you think you’d rise up with some other warriors to do something, anything? That’s what Hamas is. It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble. It is the fighting representative of a beaten people.
It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble.
Did you not notice the events that started this recent shit? Hamas certainly engages in terrorism, as does the IDF.
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The only solution I see is to build a wall around the whole area and just waiting for the shooting to stop eventually.
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OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awda building, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification.
From the UN report cited.
When the culture and the legal system that is supposed to punish illegal activity like this, fails to do its job, the message to each individual is clear if not codified.
Behave as you want, because your leadership controls the information coming out to the wider world. Journalists are intimidated and killed.
If you are discovered, you will be quietly reassigned but not actually disciplined. Protests from the UN or other nations are dismissed using various tired phrases or tactics.
If you actually go to trial, the state will bow to pressure from the public and government officials and not sufficiently punish you for even crimes like murder. 18 months for a summary execution that was clearly premeditated and filmed. It doesn’t matter if the prosecution proves mens rea or that you were filmed loading a weapon first before slow walking over to your victim. You will get a downgraded charge to manslaughter and the broad public will push for your immediate release.
If anyone is still wondering why Hamas and other resistance factions are fighting, this is what happens when the IDF wins.
Fuck Hamas. They are not “resisting”, they killed innocent civilians, women and children, and don’t give a flying fuck about the Palestinian civilians either (cf Moussa Abu Marzouk’s declaration that they are not responsible for defending the civilians in Gaza). They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin. Fuck Hamas as much as the Likud and the ultranationalist Israeli right to the seventh pit of hell.
on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted. when asked why, they said that Palestinians have long given up any hope that negotiations could achieve their goal of freedom and independence. they said that since negotiating has clearly failed for decades, Palestinians feel that the only remaining option Israel has left them is aggression and violence. and Hamas is the leadership that is willing to resort to violence.
while I certainly feel awful about any innocent Israelis getting caught up in the original attack, I can’t help but feel like Israel has done this to themselves. they have caged an entire group like wild animals for decades and somehow have the audacity to blame them for lashing out.
but let’s be honest here. we have all heard these points and most of us have already made up our minds about it.
on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted
That’s what trauma does to you. Initially, support for Hamas had dwindled before October 7th, but after you literally drop bombs and bombs on people until they have to carry whatever is left of their children in blankets and plastic bags, well…
It’s hard to not let your emotions take over, but Hamas only exists because of the hatred of Israel.
Hamas exists because Israel doesn’t want Palestines to exist.
Terrorist organisation typically don’t continue to exist for extended periods of time without external assistance.
That’s what I said:
They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin.
This is silly, not mentioning Iran as the actual people training and funding Hamas is either very deceptive or evidence you have no idea about anything happening in the middle East.
Also acting like Hamas are the only terrorist organisation in the middle East and a total novelty is absolutely absurd, when people call them freedom fighters without any reference to what they’re actually saying they’re fighting for is again totally deceptive or from a total lack of understanding - they don’t want freedom they want a theocratic dictatorship and death to all non Muslims.
That’s not too say everything Israel have done of good or moral but painting Hamas as innocent people just fighting for their freedom is laughable
Oh blah blah blah, this whole situation is alot simpler that Israeli defence Muppets like.
Israel is NOT a poor developing nation. Their military is on par with the UK. Their economy is doing fantastic. Quality of life in Israel is growing.
Israel wether you like it or not are always going to be the bad guys in the situation simply because they should know better. They have been taunting, attacking and murdering Palestinians for 70 years. The only countries other than Israel that are to blame are the US and the UK.
So being successful when everyone is trying to kill you makes them bad but rich countries like Iran failing repeatedly to complete the genocides they fund makes them loveable roagues who can do no wrong?
You’ll excuse me if I don’t subscribe to your philosophy of life.
Because you’re acting like it’s an army Vs an army, it’s not it’s an army Vs civilians
When IDF wins? They could have done this years ago with Hamas started their raine of terror over Israel following Israel trying to do a good will gesture in Gaza. Instead Israel agreed to ceasefire after ceasfire that Hamas continously broke with thousands of rockets fired at civilians. This last massacre by Hamas was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back.
You know why Hamas are fighting? Because their goal is to murder every jew they can. They don’t want peace, they want blood.
For fucks sake, Hamas is not a “resistance faction” and pretty much nothing was happening until they decided to poke the bear. They’re a bunch of worthless shitstains who don’t give two shits about the welfare of Palestinians.
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What do you think Israel should’ve done after Hamas killed over a thousand people?
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That seems like a very unlikely response, doubt any country would accept anything right after an attack like that.
And that’s why terrorist groups work versus modern states. They can count on disproportionate response. Hamas support was lower before Oct 7 but thanks to Israel liquidation of 20k people, now they have staunch support.
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And I replied to your answer
Does that involve all Jewish people leaving Israel or are you talking about the two state solution which Israel has repeatedly tried to work towards and both the plo and now Hamas reject on principle?
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First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Executions ≠ shenanigans. Are you fucking kidding?
Edit: typo
Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.
Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.
The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.
You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?
Get fucked shitbag
You mean like how Israel should stop supporting terrorists like Hamas then using them as an excuse to commit genocide?
Of course, Israel supporting Hamas was a dirty move and it was one of Israel biggest mistakes. There is no way to excuse that.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about though, this is an often repeated talking point which comes from pretty much nothing, do you have any evidence for it or did you half read a headline in a meme post without realising the argument being made is ‘by allowing aid into Gaza it’s proping up Hamas’ because that’s where that ‘funding Hamas’ line actually comes from.
Israel don’t let enough aid through and they’re the bad guys, they let aid through and they’re the bad guys - they don’t have a cease fire and they’re the bad guys, or they have a cease fire and fail to totally remove Hamas so again they’re the bad guys…
Iran funds Hamas and sturs up trouble as a way of maintaining support at home and due to their fanatical religious ideals -that bit isn’t even sightly complicated, you don’t need conspiracy theories
No sorry you’re right, starve and murder all Palestinians that will solve the problem.
That’s clearly not what I’m saying, I’m saying that supplying aid to Palestine is not the same as proping up Hamas so blaming Israel for their existence is absurd
That’s to the unwavering diplomatic cover and military help of the US, it’s no surprise the far-right racists who are the elected government of Israel are turning the Gaza ghetto into a concentration camp, complete with mass executions.
I mean, even those who dispute them being actual Fascists, can hardly claim to be surprised that a racist ultra-nationalist government whose leader already tried to take over the Judiciary, engaged in an anti-insurgency operation in an occupied territory populated by people from a different etnicity who they call “human animals” and were they’ve already killed tens of thousands - more than 40% of which children - would end up doing mass executions. I mean, these are people who have more than once said they need a Final Solution for Gaza. The only surprising thing here is that they’re still using bullets for it rather than cheaper methods of bulk killing.
The entirelly predictable consequence of the US veto at the UN was exactly to embolden their favorite Fascists to be ever more Fascist, since it made clear to them that the US would always have their back no matter what and any “words of condemnation” by the US Administration were nothing more than hot air.
Make All Gaza Auschwitz hats still available.
“Make Auschwitz Happen Again”
That slogan requires new hats to be made.
You mean to say those hats exist in our material reality?
They seem to be forgetting that the hats don’t say “MAGA”
You’re right. MAGA it is then.
I had only ever seen these before:
A witness told the Euro-Med monitor, “Thirteen persons were shot dead and several more were critically injured. The Israeli soldiers later threw shells at the women, who were being held in one of the rooms.” Euro-Med Monitor also recorded a rise in field executions following reports of attacks on Israeli military vehicles by Palestinian factions. This suggests that the crimes being reported are part of Israel’s unlawful retaliatory policy against Palestinian civilians, which is in violation of international humanitarian law.
I think that there is more than enough justification for the Arab League to launch a retaliation at this point. I for my part would support it.
The Arab League is as divided as ever
Yep. The Arab league is a joke at this point, it has lost relevancy.
Instead of more slaughter, I’d like to see them provide land and assistance for a new Palestine in a safe place. Instead they won’t even take in refugees.
It would probably be safer for everyone involved for the Israelis to move away instead.
Palestinians should get to keep their land.
If someone broke into my house, I wouldn’t entertain moving out so as to reduce the risk of further violence.
Against a country with nukes?
If they’re afraid of attacking a country with nukes, they’ve already lost.
They’re mostly American puppet states such as Saudi and Egypt. Their government doesn’t care about anything but pocketing money. American puppet Sisi was just reelected in Egypt by arresting everyone running against him.
Insurgency groups are growing though since their governments doing nothing really pisses off the civilians. They’re not directly attacking israel but instead attack israeli or American targets close to them
Saudi has America, not the other way around. They knocked America’s towers and they sold them weapons and shook their hands.
Only group doing that are iran proxies or Hamas affiliated terrorists.
The UN added, “While in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members.” The UN continued, “The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awda building.”
Funny, how you alter the source to make it seem more clear than it is. So here is the part you altered, as reported by the OHCHR:
‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification.’
Just so you’re clear, the person you replied to directly quoted the article word for word
The articles miss quoted then, and should therefore should be considered heavily biased.
Cool. But you went full tilt accusation at that guy. Like FULL tilt. Just trying to throw some humble your way.
Maybe he should double check if the source he quotes is trustworthy. BTW: he hasn’t corrected his made-up quote.
There was no made-up quote. The quote was from the article, which left the end off a sentence, saying that the circumstances are under investigation, although the killings have been confirmed. So we have survivors accusing the IDF of slaughtering these people and we have the bodies, but it has not definitively been proven that the people were killed in the way the survivors claim. People can make of that what they will. I’m not trying to twist anything.
Here is the report (PDF):
The correct way to to cite it would be: ‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding […].’
Its simply wrong to not do it. Especially cutting of the sentence at a ‘,’.
And the last time a crime against humanity was still under investigation – where it was obvious that a rocket hit a hospital, but the exact circumstances where still unclear – it was later confirmed that Hamas hit the hospital.
The actual report from the United Nations.
It just says allegations, and it calls on the IDF to investigate.
Of course the IDF should investigate itself. I’m sure they are completely unbiased.
Clearly you’re right. But the UN report did not say what the article said it said. Which means it’s biased reporting.
The article prefaces every item with the word “alleged” or “alleges”, just like the report. How is this biased?
Because that word is not in the title
What are you expecting from “World Socialist Website”? Fact-based reporting? I don’t think so.
For a site calling itself “socialist”, it sure is scared of unabashedly calling out an apartheid ethnostate.
It really isn’t, look at the other articles on that site
Please provide corroborating story link from a credible source. I will have to remove if the story link can’t be updated to a more reputable source.
It was already removed by a mod and then restored. But yeah, no problem, I will find a better link and switch it now.
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Thank you. We were getting reports on it, and I didn’t want to remove it if it was a credible story.
WSWS tends to do accurate reporting in my experience.
It was showing as middle of the road for the credibility rating, which on its own is shaky but with a corroborating report strengthens it.
Just for the record, I checked MBFC and it said it’s highly credible and mostly factual. If MBFC is what determines these “truths about credibility”, then I don’t understand why people would report it or on what basis
IIRC it’s considered middle of the road due to political leanings rather than the actual credibility of the reporting.
Which, tbh, is sort of concerning when evaluating credibility because political leanings do not change whether a report is factual or not.
Concerning censorship: you’d hope that the mods would at least make their own judgment of the substance of the article in question before crumbling to establishment Overton window policing.
Basically one mod first said they will keep it since it’s factual, then another removed it for reports but put it back up after I spoke to them, and lastly I was asked to switch the link all together.
I guess some people are sending out lots of reports on this even though:
(1) the article was factual (2) the MBFC rating is acceptable (3) The article links to the report it reports on
Which makes me just want to shrug my shoulders…
WSWS isn’t a great source because it’s based on a cause.
However, here’s the report.
It’s uh… Not good.
At what point does the Foreign Assistance Act’s ban on sending aid to countries in violation of human rights standards come into play? It seems like we’re getting a report on a new war crime every few days, which is a breathtaking rate for a professional Army.
Genocide Joe removed any restriction of human rights violations on the aid for israel so until you vote him out
Oh yes because Trump would use our forces to do it instead.
Look, don’t counter with 3rd party. That’s literally throwing your vote away.
Biden is the only way to beat Trump. There are backwards racists in the Democrats too. You’re not going to get support for anything than an old white guy until at least 2028…
Isn’t what you’re doing straight up “whataboutism”?
See you in the camps!
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ESH
