https://lemmy.ml/comment/16125064
Starring: blindbunny, BrainInABox and of course, the one and only, Cowbee!
Meanwhile, Lemmy Devs are saying the “transgender topic” is promoted by “the bourgeoisie”, and how “biological men” shouldn’t be competing in “women’s sports”
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/25213024
(also, who the fuck says “biological men” in the transgender context, its called transgender women)
(also, who the fuck says “biological men” in the transgender context, its called transgender women)
Conservatives and other right wing that’s who. That’s why you hear tankie leadership saying it.
Tankies are anti-lgbtq at their core. Anything to simp for totalitarians.
Maybe this is just an online thing? IRL I hang out with quite a few Marxist-Leninists, Maoists, and other folks who’d usually get categorized as tankies and I don’t think I’ve heard them be bigoted towards queer people during the years I’ve known them. I’m also openly queer so it’s not like I’m just an “ally” saying that they don’t see bigotry happening just because they ignore it.
These same folks are also organizing most of the pride events around here and running volunteer security for protests and drag shows, so I’d have a hard time believing that they’re secretly bigoted while spending a lot of their time, money, and taking personal risks to foster a queer community and keep it safe.
I think this scenario highlights the difference between communists and tankies. Tankies are a subset of communists (or at least claim to be) but not all communists are tankies.
I’m sure it’ll be hilarious when I explain to my co-organizers that the Stalinist in our group isn’t a tankie because they support LGBTQ+ rights
What I mean is that, lacking any other info, communist does not automatically equal authoritarian. There is a tragic amount of overlap between those two Ven diagram circles but it is not an intrinsic thing is all I’m pointing out. Of course I know nothing about the specifics of this situation in particular, and I’m not so arrogant as to talk as though I do. I’m just making a general point.
Makes sense, and thank you for the clarification!
Well I suppose you could have not seen it.
However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Considering the big-tent-tankies quite openly discuss (or refuse to discuss) the issue leaves me with ample proof of the movements leadership holding a certain position.
Actually, most of the people who’d normally be described as tankies (Stalinists, Marxist-Leninists, CPUSA members, other flavors of communist that want to seize state power and use it against the capitalist class) that I’ve met are some variety of queer themselves. In my organizing circles usually the queer folks outnumber the few token cis-het people, so again, it could just be that my IRL circles don’t represent the norm.
For context, I’m usually organizing at the local level. I know that things suck at the national level in a lot of orgs like IWW and CPUSA, there’s toxic leadership in there that have seized power in order to keep their own positions and are really ruining the image and functioning of both orgs. Yeah, CPUSA leadership might suck, but your local communists that you might write off as tankies might actually be really caring people.
How old are these IRL people, just out of curiosity?
They’re between 20 and ~40 years old, and about 25 people in total in my close circles
To be fair, hexbear did ban those devs for those comments.
It’s a little noted fact that the lemmy devs don’t really fuck with hexbear or vice versa. Presumably they also recognize the same childish, bad faith, obnoxious argumentative tactics that we have all come to know and love from hexbear.
While I’m on the topic, Nutomic and Dessalines also have very different views, and constantly referring to them as the monolithic tankie lemmy devs is somewhat reductive. Dessalines seems to be the more tankie-ish of the two based on the evidence I’ve seen.
It’s fair to assume that a good number of the OG lemmy.ml users and lemmygrad users aren’t big fans of hexbear either, considering hexbear has always maintained a separate space for themselves. Pretty wild that hexbear users are so toxic and misanthropic that even other tankies are repelled by them.
I used to think Reddit was wild
Then I got on Lemmy…
Imagine not being able to tell the difference between “I don’t believe half of their users are trans” and “I don’t believe in their users being trans”.
Demographics isn’t transphobic. Using trans people as a shield from criticism is.
EDIT: I looked over the October survey. The graphs aren’t the cleanest but the data is there: 15% of all asked identified as trans, with another 9% as trans non-binary. A sample size of 600 to the 2300 monthly users is also really good, so the data ought to be very representative.
Oh, they can tell the difference. It’s just that their whole mentality is attuned to seizing on some trivial bullshit, deliberately misunderstanding it into some wild kind of caricature, and then lecturing the “opponent” about how they’re wrong about everything.
Thanks for bringing this up, Cowbee has been banned.
That guy is so annoying with his faux-neutrality/naivety. What a phony, good riddance.
Please look at my very comprehensive “intro to leftism” reading list which is entirely comprised of ML essays and makes no attempt at contextualizing these works within broader leftist philosophy.
Haha indeed, spot on
Wait where has he been banned from? discuss.tchncs.de or here?
Alright thanks good to know. Thank you for taking such action. I have rarely seen someone acting so innocent yet at the same time being so disingenuous.
I wonder where those demographics came from.
It seems unlikely that half of their users would be transgender, given that transgender people make up roughly .5% of the overall population; gay people (gay men + lesbians) make up roughly 4.5-5% of the overall population the last time I looked at demographics. All of the LGBTQ+ people together make up about 6% of the total population in the US.
These numbers might have changed somewhat in the last year or two since I last check surveys, but it’s not likely that it’s changed enough to move the numbers sharply.
I know that there was some investigative reporting in my state a few months ago trying to figure out how many minors would be affected by a state-level ban on insurance covering gender-affirming care for minors, and the number was in in the very low double digits. The same kind of numbers of athletes would be affected by bans on ‘biological males’ competing in womens’ sports.
I’m just saying that it just doesn’t seem very likely that an instance with thousands of users would have that kind of demographics, esp. when you consider that Hexbear broadly has a monolithic political identity.
I mean I could believe it about an arbitrary thing over a general populace. I mean like a gay bar is likely to have like 90% gay people in it. And its not like the federation is huge and it tends to attract out groups.
But it is not as if the instance advertises itself as a place specifically for trans people.
yeah Im just saying I think its possible. ultimately I just don’t care and don’t see why anyone else would.
A gay bar doesn’t have a (largely) monolithic political identity though. Sure, most gay people are going to trend more socially and fiscally liberal/left. But you’ll still find a number at any gay bar that are fairly socially and/or fiscally conservative. Log cabin Republicans, for instance. (Yeah, I think it’s dumb to kiss the asses of ppl that want to eliminate your rights, but whatever.)
I honestly have no idea why your shifting to political ideology. My point was when you take anything that is a closed type of system it will have its own identity so I could believe its makeup is whatever and no where near close to the global average is.
They’re pointing out that hexbear isn’t like a gay bar. Its not the sexual orientation that holds them together. It’s extremest political ideology (and probably significant support from the Kremlin)
yeah that was not really my point though. when something is not broad enough, like federation instances, then any particular anomaly is possible. It does not have to be specific sort of place. So lets say instead of a gay bar its just a corner bars but it so happens a fair amount of gay people decided to frequent it because others were or such.
I’m just saying that it just doesn’t seem very likely that an instance with thousands of users would have that kind of demographics, esp. when you consider that Hexbear broadly has a monolithic political identity.
Comrade just learned what an intersectional identity group is
I think that you might misunderstand. Transgender people are already a very, very small minority. The number of people that are in favor of authoritarian communism is also quite low (certainly in the US, at least). Even if you assume that, say, 50% of all trans people are supportive of authoritarian communism, that’s still an incredibly tiny number.
I can’t say that I know a ton of transgender people, but the ones that I’ve personally known have trended well into anarchism, because they recognize the risk of allowing anyone to control their body other than themselves.
Transgender people are already a very, very small minority. The number of people that are in favor of authoritarian communism is also quite low (certainly in the US, at least).
Couple things:
- They might each be small minorities of the overall population, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have a very large overlap with each other. Assuming that they don’t simply because you don’t personally know many who fit that intersection could just mean that you don’t frequent the same spaces they do - possibly because you don’t share one or either of those characteristics
- I’ll let you do your own math and get back to me if your calculated percentages could possibly add up to 700 people (half of an estimated 1400 monthly active users) on the internet who identify as both trans and communist
Literally the only place I have ever experienced transphobia on Lemmy was from a hexbear, who called me a chaser for saying that my ex was a trans woman.
so you’re telling me that you used to free dive in the the deep part of the Mediterranean? that’s thalassophobic /s
I might be missing something. they may be making assumptions about you but how is calling someone a chaser transphobic?
I don’t believe ANY hexbear users are leftists either.
they’ll probably say that’s leftphobic. These cretins can’t manage logic and reason.
There are definitely some that have been lured in by the grift. I feel bad for those people but there’s no way for us to reach them as long as they stay in the hexbear bubble.
Hell, I’ve had to deal with MAGAts for years, I see no difference in how I will do that with tankies.
Shitbirds of a feather, Randy.
I’m not saying I’m going to cater to them or give them any special effort, I’m just saying I feel bad because they were possibly headed in a generally good ideological direction before they stumbled onto hexbear and got totally brainwashed.
It’s frustrating to think about what might have been.
deleted by creator
“You people,” huh?
I hate how they’re incapable of actually thinking, so they latch onto specific phrases so they can pretend you’re a racist so they don’t have to engage with what you’re actually saying
The fuck with this obsession of telling people whether they are or are not trans online?
What a transphobic thing to say. You must be trans
I commented one time on the bear that Ukraine has a right to self defense and self actualization and got flooded by 15 different users, all pro-russia, then banned.
Oooook. But that tracks I guess. I lean left and theres nothing I hate more than leftists, except fascists… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hexbear is a psyops.
Ding ding dingg
They’re just shuffling cards. This is the shape a valid rebuttal would have, so they perform that, regardless of whether it has any basis in reality.
I’m just always wondering about then being pro trans and pro-governement that is very anti-queer, I just can’t.
Tankies and typical extremists always think they’ll be spared, or considered ‘one of the good ones’
how do i block any post with “hexbear” anywhere in the title or comments?
Most mobile clients allow you to hide posts that contain a certain keyword in their title. Here’s a non-exhaustive list of clients that support keyword filtering off the top of my head:
- Voyager (multiplatform; I believe you need to have the app because the option doesn’t show up on the website for me)
- Mlem (iOS)
- Arctic (iOS)
- Thunder (Android)
- Sync (Android)
I don’t know of any that can hide posts with a keyword mentioned in any of the post’s comments; doing so would require the client to make a lot of extra API requests.
Keyword blocking
Step 1 might be getting off this community?
Denying the self-reported identity of a marginalized person is absolutely bigoted, and those demographics come directly from self-reported polling data.
Unless you are simply unaware that they conduct their own demographic polling, dismissing those demographics as ‘not real’ is the same thing as accusing those users of lying about being trans
