And the fissile material can be reprocessed after it’s been spent. Like 90% of the spent fuel can be reprocessed and reused, but the Carter administration banned nuclear waste recycling in the US for fears it would hasten nuclear proliferation.
Wind, hydro, solar, and geothermal are all great. Anything is better than coal or gas power generation. But to say these green power generation methods come close to nuclear… not a chance.
I can set up 20 GW of solar panels to match the capacity of a 4 GW nuclear power plant. And I can set up 20 GW of PV in a year. China installs about 30 GW of solar capacity in a quarter.
It takes about 8-10 years to build a nuclear power plant. In 8 years, I could have installed the equivalent of 8 nuclear power plants using Solar PV that it would take me to build one nuclear power plant.
You can theoretically. Unfortunately, you are not considering the land difference.
More to the point, the absolute political nightmare of buying and getting permission to use so much land.
It is a nightmare for both. But rare to see the amount of land needed for the power station, have to argue about arable use. Whereas, it’s pretty hard in the UK to locate the solar without others claiming land is lost. Farm land mainly as that is the cheap build option. (pricy land, lower labour).
But even brownfield land. Once you have the area to host something like this. You are usually talking about close to populated areas. And just about every NIMBY crap excuse is thrown up about history or other potential use. Meaning, at best you end up with some huge project that takes decades. With a vague plan to add solar generation to the roof.
Honestly I agree. It should be fucking easy to build these plants. Farming should be updating. And honestly can benefit from well-designed solar if both parties are willing to invest and research.
But we have been seeing these arguments for the last 20 years. And people are arseholes, mostly.
And this is all before you consider the need for storage. Again solvable with hydro etc. Theoretically easy. But more land and way way more politics and time. If hydro the cost goes insane. And the type of land become more politically complex. If battery, you instantly get the comparison of mining and transport costs. So again more insane politics.
Right. The UK it will be a challenge for sure. Any western democracy that’s stuck due to the nature of its governance system indeed.
BRICS countries OTOH are some of the fastest installers of solar. Maybe we’re looking at a mean regression for the west.
But then you don’t have power at night. Cost comparisons of renewables vs nuclear very often neglect storage. It is not a trivial cost. Nuclear doesn’t perfectly match demand either, but it can provide a baseload.
It’s not renewables or nuclear, it’s renewables and nuclear.
Storage is a kludge. Regardless of the power source, we should be building power plants to consistently exceed electricity demand. The excess power can go towards hydrogen production and desalination.
Those 800 wind turbines can be built in a month. Building a nuclear plant takes decades. And nuclear fuel reprocessing had never been economical by a long shot. Your pipe dreams will always regain just that and that’s before we even start talking about proliferation and nuclear waste.
This is a much more reasonable argument than most.
But third and fourth-gen nuclear are excellent sources of constant energy that don’t require storage, and some of which have a tiny percentage of the waste stream of prior generations, and what waste they do produce is problematic along the lines of 400 years (as opposed to 27,000 years).
I concur. Nuclear has had seventy years to compete. Renewable is cheaper and has nowhere near the political hurdles of nuclear. Give renewables a chance to compete!
In what universe do those other power generation methods even come close to nuclear power?
It would take about 800 wind turbines or 8.5 million solar panels to replace the power output of one nuclear reactor.
And the fissile material can be reprocessed after it’s been spent. Like 90% of the spent fuel can be reprocessed and reused, but the Carter administration banned nuclear waste recycling in the US for fears it would hasten nuclear proliferation.
https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/fuel-recycling/processing-of-used-nuclear-fuel
Wind, hydro, solar, and geothermal are all great. Anything is better than coal or gas power generation. But to say these green power generation methods come close to nuclear… not a chance.
I can set up 20 GW of solar panels to match the capacity of a 4 GW nuclear power plant. And I can set up 20 GW of PV in a year. China installs about 30 GW of solar capacity in a quarter.
It takes about 8-10 years to build a nuclear power plant. In 8 years, I could have installed the equivalent of 8 nuclear power plants using Solar PV that it would take me to build one nuclear power plant.
You can theoretically. Unfortunately, you are not considering the land difference.
More to the point, the absolute political nightmare of buying and getting permission to use so much land.
It is a nightmare for both. But rare to see the amount of land needed for the power station, have to argue about arable use. Whereas, it’s pretty hard in the UK to locate the solar without others claiming land is lost. Farm land mainly as that is the cheap build option. (pricy land, lower labour).
But even brownfield land. Once you have the area to host something like this. You are usually talking about close to populated areas. And just about every NIMBY crap excuse is thrown up about history or other potential use. Meaning, at best you end up with some huge project that takes decades. With a vague plan to add solar generation to the roof.
Honestly I agree. It should be fucking easy to build these plants. Farming should be updating. And honestly can benefit from well-designed solar if both parties are willing to invest and research.
But we have been seeing these arguments for the last 20 years. And people are arseholes, mostly.
And this is all before you consider the need for storage. Again solvable with hydro etc. Theoretically easy. But more land and way way more politics and time. If hydro the cost goes insane. And the type of land become more politically complex. If battery, you instantly get the comparison of mining and transport costs. So again more insane politics.
Right. The UK it will be a challenge for sure. Any western democracy that’s stuck due to the nature of its governance system indeed. BRICS countries OTOH are some of the fastest installers of solar. Maybe we’re looking at a mean regression for the west.
Yep.
Also while the UK governance structure is crap.
Other EU nations have some of the same issues. (As has briccs nations in the past)
This is more about corperation power. Capatalims control over government is everywhere. But fully embedded in the west.
That’s a lot of text, and yet, solving all of that is easier, faster and less expensive than nuclear.
Solving politics is cheap and fast.
Utter crap. Solar power companies have been trying for 20 years.
Its not like you came up with a new idea.
Then get to work.
I’ve considered it, some renewables installation jobs I’ve seen are extremely well paid.
You have two votes, and they matter: where you work, and where you spend your money.
But then you don’t have power at night. Cost comparisons of renewables vs nuclear very often neglect storage. It is not a trivial cost. Nuclear doesn’t perfectly match demand either, but it can provide a baseload.
It’s not renewables or nuclear, it’s renewables and nuclear.
You may not be aware, but most governments now require storage to be added as part of solar projects.
Storage is a kludge. Regardless of the power source, we should be building power plants to consistently exceed electricity demand. The excess power can go towards hydrogen production and desalination.
Those 800 wind turbines can be built in a month. Building a nuclear plant takes decades. And nuclear fuel reprocessing had never been economical by a long shot. Your pipe dreams will always regain just that and that’s before we even start talking about proliferation and nuclear waste.
In China they do it in 6 years…
https://www.statista.com/statistics/712841/median-construction-time-for-reactors-since-1981/
And in those 6 years, you could have built over 6x that capacity in renewables, easy.
You can also built more than 1 reactor at the same time
I’m very glad I don’t live anywhere near one of those.
And why is that?
The Chinese are really famous for their safety culture, right?
None of their reactors have blown up yet and they’ve had nuclear plants since the 50’s
The performance of nuclear power must be calculated in relation to its cost and risk. And here renewable energy is more than competitive.
This is a much more reasonable argument than most.
But third and fourth-gen nuclear are excellent sources of constant energy that don’t require storage, and some of which have a tiny percentage of the waste stream of prior generations, and what waste they do produce is problematic along the lines of 400 years (as opposed to 27,000 years).
I concur. Nuclear has had seventy years to compete. Renewable is cheaper and has nowhere near the political hurdles of nuclear. Give renewables a chance to compete!