During the Hillary vs Bernie times, I was talking with a Bernie supporter in a bar. He told me that the establishment Dems/DNC would promote Hitler himself before they promote an anti-establishment candidate.
Back then I thought he was a case of mentally sick person making it to the bar and having too much drink. As time passes I agree with him more and more.
We have a party entirely dedicated to the ownership class with literally 0 internal conflict, and we have a party almost entirely dedicated to the ownership class with some internal conflict (the squad.)
What we don’t have is a party that gives one solitary fuck about the labor class and actively fights those that get too close to real power. The squad is a useful token to point to and say “see we aren’t all corpo fascists! We allowed them to exist!” (Because there’s only like 5 of them so they have no power whatsoever)
We have to undo decades of policy enacted the much longer politically aware and active owner class. They’ve had a head start on us, so it’s going to take tome to dismantle the political machinery they’ve created while minimizing harm done to the rest of us.
A single progressive president means they get to name the DNC chair and a bunch of voting positions.
It’s literally that easy to take over the party.
Obama just didn’t do it because he didn’t need the party after they turned on him for opposing Hillary.
If he’d have rebuilt it, we’d have a functional progressive party planning decades ahead already. And trump would still just be that guy from the Mac Miller song. The SC would be a progressive majority. The situation and Gaza wouldn’t have turned into an open genocide, COVID would have been handled appropriately.
It’s not some insurmountable task, but it gets harder and harder every cycle.
By all rights we should have had protests in the streets calling for Biden and the DNC leadership to step down for stealing NH’s delagets. But not enough people had crossed their personal lines by then.
If we’d have had the fight then, we’d have had a full primary almost to figure shit out.
We should have learned that confidence is the one thing you can’t fake. A candidate can be confident for illogical reasons, but that’s still more convincing than being right but not being confident. It creates this weird effect where once people get too smart, they become less decisive and people perceive that as less confident.
The stereotypical nerd.
Gore probably would have been a top 10 president. But he couldn’t sell himself to voters just a little more. And if memory recalls, he technically didn’t even have to concede. Like, if he had waited I believe the recounts were actively happening. He didn’t even let it run down to the final vote.
But I think its important to note not a single Dem Senator challenged it either which would have been even better than Gore challenging it
Bernie would have most likely, but he wasn’t in yet. Biden could have done it, but he didn’t, same with most of the current Dem leadership.
So Gore should have planted his feet, and voters should have gotten behind, probably would have. But the party didn’t have Gore’s back either. And Gore wasn’t confident enough to try it without the party.
It’s crazy how shit comes so close and has such widespread consequences. Just one Dem senator back then dragging it out till a final count would have done it.
Gore probably would have been a top 10 president. But he couldn’t sell himself to voters just a little more. And if memory recalls, he technically didn’t even have to concede. Like, if he had waited I believe the recounts were actively happening. He didn’t even let it run down to the final vote.
He pushed right up to the deadline. Like, Bush v Gore was decided literally hours before the state deadline to certify the vote.
We’ve had this sort of situation before, FDR was radically progressive on a lot of policy decisions, he made great strides ad pulling us out of the Great Depression, leading us through world war 2, dramatically reduced the wealth disparity and was so popular with the voting public he was elected 4 times. Then the politically connected wanted to make sure that kind of presidency never happened again, so they paid to get the political machinery altered to suit their needs, term limits were introduced, influential think tanks were created to push favorable public policy and install favorable political assets, launched propaganda campaigns to sway public perception and consolidated economic power.
I agree that a single properly progressive president can do a lot to make things better, and a president who actually wields power can make some very important structural changes within the political party but it doesn’t disassemble the political machinery that led us to our current situation in the first place. It doesn’t disassemble the vast propaganda networks and think tanks, it doesn’t stop the flow of dark money into politician pockets. All these positive changes can be undone if the next guy that comes in is a shitbag.
During the Hillary vs Bernie times, I was talking with a Bernie supporter in a bar. He told me that the establishment Dems/DNC would promote Hitler himself before they promote an anti-establishment candidate.
Back then I thought he was a case of mentally sick person making it to the bar and having too much drink. As time passes I agree with him more and more.
Imagine having a candidate that got more popular after speaking in public…
We literally haven’t even passed that low of a bar in over a decade. I don’t understand what’s happened to people.
I’d be happy if we just had an administration where no one in the DOJ, State Department or Cabinet quits in disgust. The last time that happened was what, Bush Sr.?
I saw him speak the other day and he was totally with it. Like that super old person who lives to be 120 and is sharp as fuck right until their body gives up, but until then they are firy and physically fit.
Literally has had one minor mis-step with the railroad union strike, telling them to go back to work, and they still got the deal they wanted in the end. She hasn’t just earned my vote for POTUS should she choose to run, but she’s got my full support. Heck, I might start throwing campaign contributions her way if she makes a POTUS try.
not codifying RvW as promised, not protecting voter rights, not protecting civil liberties…
Conservatives (including Manchin and Sinema) stopped all of that. I hate the Dem party and despise neoliberals (AKA the other conservatives), but conservatives are fully to blame for those specific issues.
You don’t get a choice where you get a progressive instead of Manchin. You get Manchin or a far right Republican. I voted for Manchin, for the same reason I voted for Clinton and Biden - they might suck, but holy shit is the alternative WORSE.
for the record, I think I must have replied to the wrong thing in my notifications. deleted my comment. (however, I do stand by my criticism of Biden. AoC on the other hand would be freaking phenomenal.)
(by the way. not a fucking bot. might want to hone that paranoia of yours.)
You apparently don’t understand the difference between being a dictator and actually getting off your ass to stir up support for something.
stop acting like biden is powerless because one body of congress is in republican hands. biden is not powerless. If Biden is so powerless to get shit done in congress, how is it he claims credit for the American Recovery Act and the other big ones early term? that’s right. He did some lifting for it. (he was, however, far from the only person, and a lot of people did a lot of heavy lifting to get that done.)
Trying to get anything through them is like preschoolers playing Red Rover against the New England Patriots.
I’m not saying they don’t try. It’s important to try, as long as they immediately call out the opposition at any and every opportunity. And loud. But if it comes from a D, fat chance actually getting it passed.
I’m not the one waiving a magic wand thinking Biden is a perfect candidate.
You are.
As I’ve said elsewhere, baring Biden himself stepping down it’s suicide for any one to oppose him. So no I’m not going to enter that fucking argument with someone who can’t even see what’s clearly before them.
Especially considering I’m guessing you give credit for the American recovery act to Biden even as you’d scramble to insist Biden doesn’t have the power to pass law.
Secondly, what I really want is to stop the slow slid into Fascism. Biden is, in my opinion, demonstrably incapable or unwilling of doing that. You’re welcome to share your opinions, and we can have a discussion about it. Though, also in my opinion, you don’t like hearing alternative viewpoints, considering the name calling and accusations.
EDIT:
Third, I already have. the argument goes no where. Before the primary it was “Save it for the primary,” during the primary it was “Don’t undermine the incumbent, you idiot”, in now its “name your candidate”. in 2019 it was “learn to compromise”. I’m not interestedin the argument because you- or people like you- are unwilling to listen. Biden is problematic. but you’re not going to be able to shore up his election campaign by digging your head in the sand.
Other “missteps”? Gaza and Immigration feature prominently, too.
AOC is earning my vote.
Imagine having a candidate that got more popular after speaking in public…
We literally haven’t even passed that low of a bar in over a decade. I don’t understand what’s happened to people.
People as a whole are more politically aware than I’ve ever seen, but we’re just wasting it.
During the Hillary vs Bernie times, I was talking with a Bernie supporter in a bar. He told me that the establishment Dems/DNC would promote Hitler himself before they promote an anti-establishment candidate.
Back then I thought he was a case of mentally sick person making it to the bar and having too much drink. As time passes I agree with him more and more.
We have a party entirely dedicated to the ownership class with literally 0 internal conflict, and we have a party almost entirely dedicated to the ownership class with some internal conflict (the squad.)
What we don’t have is a party that gives one solitary fuck about the labor class and actively fights those that get too close to real power. The squad is a useful token to point to and say “see we aren’t all corpo fascists! We allowed them to exist!” (Because there’s only like 5 of them so they have no power whatsoever)
We have to undo decades of policy enacted the much longer politically aware and active owner class. They’ve had a head start on us, so it’s going to take tome to dismantle the political machinery they’ve created while minimizing harm done to the rest of us.
We actually don’t.
A single progressive president means they get to name the DNC chair and a bunch of voting positions.
It’s literally that easy to take over the party.
Obama just didn’t do it because he didn’t need the party after they turned on him for opposing Hillary.
If he’d have rebuilt it, we’d have a functional progressive party planning decades ahead already. And trump would still just be that guy from the Mac Miller song. The SC would be a progressive majority. The situation and Gaza wouldn’t have turned into an open genocide, COVID would have been handled appropriately.
It’s not some insurmountable task, but it gets harder and harder every cycle.
By all rights we should have had protests in the streets calling for Biden and the DNC leadership to step down for stealing NH’s delagets. But not enough people had crossed their personal lines by then.
If we’d have had the fight then, we’d have had a full primary almost to figure shit out.
But we didn’t.
Until we finally do, shit won’t change.
We should have been in streets for Gore.
We should have learned that confidence is the one thing you can’t fake. A candidate can be confident for illogical reasons, but that’s still more convincing than being right but not being confident. It creates this weird effect where once people get too smart, they become less decisive and people perceive that as less confident.
The stereotypical nerd.
Gore probably would have been a top 10 president. But he couldn’t sell himself to voters just a little more. And if memory recalls, he technically didn’t even have to concede. Like, if he had waited I believe the recounts were actively happening. He didn’t even let it run down to the final vote.
But I think its important to note not a single Dem Senator challenged it either which would have been even better than Gore challenging it
Bernie would have most likely, but he wasn’t in yet. Biden could have done it, but he didn’t, same with most of the current Dem leadership.
So Gore should have planted his feet, and voters should have gotten behind, probably would have. But the party didn’t have Gore’s back either. And Gore wasn’t confident enough to try it without the party.
It’s crazy how shit comes so close and has such widespread consequences. Just one Dem senator back then dragging it out till a final count would have done it.
He pushed right up to the deadline. Like, Bush v Gore was decided literally hours before the state deadline to certify the vote.
We’ve had this sort of situation before, FDR was radically progressive on a lot of policy decisions, he made great strides ad pulling us out of the Great Depression, leading us through world war 2, dramatically reduced the wealth disparity and was so popular with the voting public he was elected 4 times. Then the politically connected wanted to make sure that kind of presidency never happened again, so they paid to get the political machinery altered to suit their needs, term limits were introduced, influential think tanks were created to push favorable public policy and install favorable political assets, launched propaganda campaigns to sway public perception and consolidated economic power.
I agree that a single properly progressive president can do a lot to make things better, and a president who actually wields power can make some very important structural changes within the political party but it doesn’t disassemble the political machinery that led us to our current situation in the first place. It doesn’t disassemble the vast propaganda networks and think tanks, it doesn’t stop the flow of dark money into politician pockets. All these positive changes can be undone if the next guy that comes in is a shitbag.
During the Hillary vs Bernie times, I was talking with a Bernie supporter in a bar. He told me that the establishment Dems/DNC would promote Hitler himself before they promote an anti-establishment candidate.
Back then I thought he was a case of mentally sick person making it to the bar and having too much drink. As time passes I agree with him more and more.
Do you think the ownership class was upset when AOC voted to stop the rail union from striking?
I’d be happy if we just had an administration where no one in the DOJ, State Department or Cabinet quits in disgust. The last time that happened was what, Bush Sr.?
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I want AOC with vice president Bernie.
That man may be in his final years of politics, and perhaps too old to be at the helm, but dammit, he deserves it.
I saw him speak the other day and he was totally with it. Like that super old person who lives to be 120 and is sharp as fuck right until their body gives up, but until then they are firy and physically fit.
Literally has had one minor mis-step with the railroad union strike, telling them to go back to work, and they still got the deal they wanted in the end. She hasn’t just earned my vote for POTUS should she choose to run, but she’s got my full support. Heck, I might start throwing campaign contributions her way if she makes a POTUS try.
So, not codifying RvW as promised, not protecting voter rights, not protecting civil liberties…
… those aren’t missteps?
Is it in the fucking contract? no? Then they got jack shit.
Conservatives (including Manchin and Sinema) stopped all of that. I hate the Dem party and despise neoliberals (AKA the other conservatives), but conservatives are fully to blame for those specific issues.
But… vote blue no matter who!
You don’t get a choice where you get a progressive instead of Manchin. You get Manchin or a far right Republican. I voted for Manchin, for the same reason I voted for Clinton and Biden - they might suck, but holy shit is the alternative WORSE.
deleted by creator
This thread is about AOC. You forgot which Democratic party figure you were supposed to be railing on in this thread.
I hope you understand that it will be reflected on your next performance review.
for the record, I think I must have replied to the wrong thing in my notifications. deleted my comment. (however, I do stand by my criticism of Biden. AoC on the other hand would be freaking phenomenal.)
(by the way. not a fucking bot. might want to hone that paranoia of yours.)
They said AOC not Biden lmao
Do you understand how Congress functions? Do you think they’re fucking dukes and duchesses or some shit?
You apparently don’t understand the difference between being a dictator and actually getting off your ass to stir up support for something.
stop acting like biden is powerless because one body of congress is in republican hands. biden is not powerless. If Biden is so powerless to get shit done in congress, how is it he claims credit for the American Recovery Act and the other big ones early term? that’s right. He did some lifting for it. (he was, however, far from the only person, and a lot of people did a lot of heavy lifting to get that done.)
Have you seen the Republican Congress?
Trying to get anything through them is like preschoolers playing Red Rover against the New England Patriots.
I’m not saying they don’t try. It’s important to try, as long as they immediately call out the opposition at any and every opportunity. And loud. But if it comes from a D, fat chance actually getting it passed.
Who is your pick for POTUS? Wave your magic wand.
I’m not the one waiving a magic wand thinking Biden is a perfect candidate.
You are.
As I’ve said elsewhere, baring Biden himself stepping down it’s suicide for any one to oppose him. So no I’m not going to enter that fucking argument with someone who can’t even see what’s clearly before them.
Especially considering I’m guessing you give credit for the American recovery act to Biden even as you’d scramble to insist Biden doesn’t have the power to pass law.
Removed by mod
Removed, civility.
Noted.
firstly, I’m not a bot.
Secondly, what I really want is to stop the slow slid into Fascism. Biden is, in my opinion, demonstrably incapable or unwilling of doing that. You’re welcome to share your opinions, and we can have a discussion about it. Though, also in my opinion, you don’t like hearing alternative viewpoints, considering the name calling and accusations.
EDIT: Third, I already have. the argument goes no where. Before the primary it was “Save it for the primary,” during the primary it was “Don’t undermine the incumbent, you idiot”, in now its “name your candidate”. in 2019 it was “learn to compromise”. I’m not interestedin the argument because you- or people like you- are unwilling to listen. Biden is problematic. but you’re not going to be able to shore up his election campaign by digging your head in the sand.
Other “missteps”? Gaza and Immigration feature prominently, too.
If we’re having elections in 28 and she isn’t a candidate. Something is wrong.
AOC will not survive after Trump wins.
Cool story bro
Hypothetical, yes. Fiction, not anymore.