• joneskind@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3292·
    7 months ago

    TwitterBoy showing his blatant ignorance against one of the people who literally invented modern machine learning.

    Nothing shockingly unexpected from the very stable 10D chess master genius of course, but oh my, how embarrassing it must be for all the people working for him.

    • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
      127·
      7 months ago

      It’s the same whenever he gets shown up.

      “I’ll save those schoolboys with my robot submarine!”

      *submarine won’t fit in cave*

      *schoolboys are rescued by a diver*

      “Pedo guy…”

    • psud@aussie.zoneEnglish
      411·
      7 months ago

      I’m sure he can be forgiven for not knowing the name of a scientist whose work his employees build upon

      The fact that he didn’t believe them when they claimed to be a scientist though

    • SatanicNotMessianic@lemmy.mlEnglish
      5·
      7 months ago

      Ttereal tellers is ttattElonkows nothing about AI. Anyone involved in the field knows all of the big names because we read their papers, listen to their lectures, and talk about their models. He then goes on to be dismissive of work he’s not even close to understanding. It’s blatant ignorance, and Elon is used to just being able to power through his ignorance by either BSing his way past people who know no more than him or firing anyone who is actually qualified and as a result disagrees with him.

  • Krauerking@lemy.lolEnglish
    1531·
    7 months ago

    The Internet as a whole seems a lot less interested in actually listening to anyone with credentials to back themselves up (Musk obviously included).
    Literally, people will just “nuh-uh” a piece of fact for purely emotional personal reasons.

    Maybe it’s that we made the Internet so full of disinformation that everyone is just automatically refusing to listen to others, maybe we have created a social group that just assumes they are more educated than everyone else cause they read some stuff in the internet.

    Maybe all the smarter people with credentials have done the smart thing and left the internet, cause if I hear one more person tell me I’m wrong and that people totally explode in the vacuum of space cause they watched a movie. (Someone even called me confidently incorrect after I provided the research paper I cited when working on decompression in a vacuum), I honestly will think humanity has no right to claim themselves master of any part of nature and I will praise the universe for wiping us out hopefully Armageddon style, with an asteroid with a bunch of oil drillers on it.

    • Carrolade@lemmy.worldEnglish
      622·
      7 months ago

      My theory is that as people get more success in life, they tend to get “busier”. They have families, careers, hobbies they’ve invested time in, money to take travel vacations, etc. They just do more “stuff”. This results in less time and interest towards getting into arguments with randos on the internet.

      The internet is extremely accessible and economically inexpensive though, so almost everyone can get on here if they want, regardless of any personal degree of any sort of life proficiencies.

      Together, these factors result in it being the mass of humanity with some of the cream skimmed off. So that’s what we tend to see around us, the internet is the skim milk of humanity. Then to avoid all the watery garbage so prevalent everywhere, we further clump into more segmented communities where we can find more like-minded people to associate with, simply because that’s more enjoyable.

      This is one of the reasons I think it’s important to actually put effort into interacting on here, to try to help prevent it from worsening before we can address some of the underlying technical problems it has introduced into our societies.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lolEnglish
        21·
        7 months ago

        Yeah

        There are jobs where it’s specifically to be in the Internet but if you are actually doing “important” stuff and/or just busy living you likely won’t be trying to scrape through social platforms for a sense of cheap easy joy and validation.

        I think in it’s earlier days when it was the cool new social space it made more sense to show up and show off but if you have connections now you no longer need or maybe even want that kind of exposure.

    • PoliticalAgitator@lemmy.worldEnglish
      19·
      7 months ago

      It was true before the internet too, there was just less opportunities to witness it because you didn’t interact with thousands of strangers at once.

      • Krauerking@lemy.lolEnglish
        141·
        7 months ago

        Well… Yeah that probably checks out. I have met an engineer who was sure 9/11 was planned demolition even though we literally sat and did the math to prove it was essentially a damaged free fall with no outer explosions… And a biologist major who believed in creationism…

        People are full of bad takes in shocking hypocrisy. This is definitely just the more public long lasting version of all those.

    • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      7 months ago

      Maybe it’s that we made the Internet so full of disinformation that everyone is just automatically refusing to listen to others,

      We’ve made a vast social space where people can get validation and acceptance as easily as they can choose to be challenged and face threats to their own sense of self importance and their egos, and this isn’t to sound disparaging, we ALL have sensitive egos and all feel a resistance to facing challenges, so what will we all choose over and over? It’s natural that we seek the path of least resistance that also boosts our positive feelings about ourselves.

      We’re not a rational or reasonable species, we use rational and reason to explain our emotions but those explanations are rarely accurate or based in reality.

    • VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      4·
      7 months ago

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF98ii6r_gU pretty sure this is the one [from the series] your post made me think of… My take away as relevant here is that it’s not overcomplicated: If your a marginalized person and you know your rights, all the facts and appeals reason will be dismissed by those who buy into the fear-based moral panic propaganda about you, solely on your intrinsic traits.

      That’s not a two-way street.

      Choosing not to engage with such people does not put me in an information silo in the same way that the population influenced by right-wing authoritarianism choose to stand on both sides of a contradiction and refuse to analyze the true root causes of their woes; that you can’t class traitor yourself onto the side of the ultra-wealthy, and that their Supreme Leader will throw them under the bus at the first incentive.

      A person who chooses to protect their energy from such a Facebook uncle, does not consitute a both-sides.

      Not that I went looking for anyone pressing a “both-sides” angle…hoping we can leave it behind in terms of “information silos”

    • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      21·
      7 months ago

      I think it’s because people have grown up with or are the people who were lied to by the smart people with credentials. And now that a lot of that information has been disproved, don’t trust the system. If you’ve tasted the credentials system, it’s known that a lot of that is nepo, wealth, political, etc., it casts a doubt on everything. Now you have to weed through everything to find out if it’s right regardless of credentials. Who do you trust? Also, new information comes along and theories change, so who’s to say that those theories are going to stick around. Basically, it’s complicated.

    • EtherWhack@lemmy.worldEnglish
      23·
      7 months ago

      They haven’t left, they just chum the water a bit and sit back and enjoy the show.

      With hard vacuum though, I believe I remember you may get a couple seconds of consciousness before you pass out from the stress. (unless it’s explosive which could knock you out instantly) You should usually get a couple minutes without any permanent injuries before death from asphyxiation. Any injuries would more or less be your larynx and eardrums, both from air getting rapidly pushed out. To minimize it you would need to be actively exhaling while opening the tubes to your ears (what you do when popping them) which will allow air to escape less forcefully.

      Emboli and frostbite will however happen towards the end of those minutes. But with us being mostly a mix of liquids and solids, (with dissolved gasses) which take time to sublimate, (evaporation in a vaccum) no insta-freeze or red mist.

    • deaf_fish@lemm.eeEnglish
      652·
      7 months ago

      To attempt to wake up those people who think Elon is actually God’s gift of mankind.

      • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
        15·
        7 months ago

        A wake up call on those people will have to go straight for their gut, instead of trying to throw facts at their faces. Even then, it’s a hard task

  • Lad@reddthat.comEnglish
    1321·
    7 months ago

    These types of people really need to stop being a part of the problem by getting off Twitter.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
      32·
      7 months ago

      I never really used Twitter, but I’d start using Mastodon, if only to get people to start using Mastodon?

        • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
          8·
          7 months ago

          I’m not gonna lie, I have two problems with Lemmy, lack of niche communities (But we’ll wait for Reddit to finish dying) and I seriously can’t find the fucking porn

          • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            6·
            7 months ago

            And I’m here surrounded in porn that I didn’t go looking for… perhaps some instances don’t handle NSFW?

            • Higgs boson@dubvee.orgEnglish
              2·
              7 months ago

              Many instances defederate lemmynsfw.com and some also block all NSFW content.

              There is porn, but to see it, you might have to create another account on a nsfw-friendly instance.

              • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                3·
                7 months ago

                I’m not sure… I believe some instances do. I don’t know the difference between defederation and blocking. I just tried the lemm.ee web address and searched “all” and nothing porny turned up. Maybe there’s an nsfw filter you need to turn off? I’m not sure; but I do know there’s a tonne of porn here, somewhere. Good luck tracking it down.

          • suction@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            7 months ago

            People who don’t exist for 1000, Alex.

            This guy is famous for stating he can’t find ‘the fucking porn’ on the internet.

            Who is “HawlSera”.

            • Queen HawlSera@lemm.eeEnglish
              21·
              7 months ago
              1. Are you saying I don’t exist?
              2. No I can find plenty of porn, just none of its own Lemmy
              3. I’m not a guy
        • threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          7 months ago

          How does one use Mastodon (or Twitter)? It just seems like a fire-hose of miscellaneous people’s thoughts. I think I prefer a discussion forum environment centered around specific topics.

          • Gnome Kat@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            2·
            7 months ago

            That’s low key the charm of it. I use to only use reddit and it confused me too at first. I never used Twitter but on mastodon you can actually make friends with people. Friends who will discuss the topics you are interested in. I have queer friends on there and gamedev friend and math friends. We are interested in the same things, we boost posts that we all are interested in. Make general often vague looking posts because we know who will see it, like a long drawn out conversation. Its so much cozier than lemmy or reddit, here everyone is trying to correct each other or yell at each other or be the cleverest comment in the thread. On mastodon people are alot more interested in being authentic, thats been my experience of mastodon at least.

      • Hadriscus@lemm.eeEnglish
        3·
        7 months ago

        Mastodon is really great in my experience. Very sane environment. It’s not the same for everybody, but it’s at least worth a shot.

        • casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          6·
          7 months ago

          Really? Jack Dorsey says it’s suffering from the same mistakes Twitter made. Is it still better than Mastodon? I thought Mastodon was as close as we got to solving the problem for now, just lacking adoption and with your typical fedi-drawbacks

          • Ben Hur Horse Race@lemm.eeEnglish
            4·
            7 months ago

            I’m enjoying it for the most part. Jack said he believes everyone should be able to post everything they thing with no moderation at all, as far as I can understand from what I’ve read.

      • samus12345@lemmy.worldEnglish
        121·
        7 months ago

        It’s too far gone for Elon leaving to save it. Although it would still be nice if he did.

    • suction@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      7 months ago

      Yes. Exactly like every other non-nazi still on there must do. It’s the Modern equivalent to “don’t feed the trolls”

      • xenoclast@lemmy.worldEnglish
        22·
        7 months ago

        It’s not better here. Sorry. There’s just less people so it might seem that way. Outside is best.

        • Hadriscus@lemm.eeEnglish
          21·
          7 months ago

          It is absolutely better than Twitter in my experience. Fascists and incels everyday, everywhere. It’s a pool of hate. I don’t see that here !

  • hsdkfr734r@feddit.nlEnglish
    803·
    7 months ago

    I think that he should have avoided the interaction with musk, if he planned to convince Musk of something.

    If he planned to educate the general public, his approach is totally fine, though.

    • EtherWhack@lemmy.worldEnglish
      221·
      7 months ago

      He did it for a two-fer. He educated the general public …and handed eloin his ass.

      • hsdkfr734r@feddit.nlEnglish
        86·
        7 months ago

        I’m not sure what you mean. The act is the same but the intention of it differs imo. Do you want to elaborate on the topic?

        • Jallu@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          3·
          7 months ago

          Glad you asked. To be clear: I agree with your original comment.

          I had this great, long, message drafted in my mind while in sauna, but I discarded (forgot) that one when I got back to the computer.

          Let me elaborate my first reply. We have in the OP image the following actors: Musk and the challenger.

          I think that he should have avoided the interaction with musk, if he planned to convince Musk of something.

          • (#1) According to my previous knowledge about Musk’s interactions wherever in the world of Internet, I have come to the conclusion he is not the one to be convinced even with proof.
          • (#2) If someone can challenge him during the interaction, he will most likely (always) counteract with snarky responses or just ignore the challenger totally. Like seen in the OP image.
          • (#3) The challenger tried to convince him with proof.

          If he planned to educate the general public, his approach is totally fine, though.

          • (#4) Whilst the challenger commenced #3, he was really proofing the point/educating the public of the #1.

          I like to think I managed to represent the Musk-like interaction in my previous reply; responding to your well built message with a snarky comment. Although, I think, I went too far with the dual interpretations.

          E: Why is your reply being down-voted? My previous should be the more down-voted one. I also made a little correction to this message.

          • hsdkfr734r@feddit.nlEnglish
            2·
            7 months ago

            Thank you for the clarification. These points are indeed very similar to my thoughts (but I wouldn’t have been able to describe it so to the point. )

            I like to think I managed to represent the Musk-like interaction in my previous reply; responding to your well built message with a snarky comment. Although, I think, I went too far with the dual interpretations.

            I didn’t get that. So this part needed some explaining for me.

            Why is your reply being down-voted

            Maybe it is because I missed the sarcasm/ humour in your response. It’s hard to know if it isn’t written down as a response. :)

    • someacnt_@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      7 months ago

      Imo it just makes things worse, esp. considering the platform is twitter. Interacting with musk won’t look good, given how manupulative musk is.

    • radicalautonomy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      7 months ago

      “*pffffbtbtbt* Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true.” - Homer Simpson

  • Monument@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    651·
    7 months ago

    I’m just imagining Musk banning his account once he realizes how much he just embarrassed himself.

    Followed by:

    Lawyer: What brings you in today, Mr. LeCun?
    LeCun: I got banned from Twitter.
    Lawyer: But I’m a patent attorney.
    LeCun: I know.

    Beastie Boys “Sabotage” riff starts playing.

  • candybrie@lemmy.worldEnglish
    532·
    7 months ago

    Does 80 technical papers in 2.5 years seem kind of off to anyone else? That’s more than a paper every 2 weeks. Is there really time for meaningful research if you’re publishing that often? Is he advising a lot of students? If that’s the case, is he providing the attention generally needed for each one? Is his field just super different than mine?

    • jol@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
      40·
      7 months ago

      In acamedia you usually get your name on most papers where you help a bit. And if you’re the boss, you get your name on papers without even helping but perhaps supplying space, material, budget.

      • candybrie@lemmy.worldEnglish
        282·
        7 months ago

        I’ve been in academia. My field required a “significant intellectual contribution” to the research and the writing, so no putting your name on papers if you just supplied space/material/budget. You can get an acknowledgement for that, not an authorship credit.

        • ormr@feddit.deEnglish
          16·
          7 months ago

          And which reviewer or publishers verifies how “significant” a contribution is beyond seeing some initials matched with tags like “visualization” or “experimental design”? That’s right, nobody. It’s not even remotely traceable who did what if you’re a reviewer.

          Academia is full of fraud and people trying to secure their share of credit because in academia it’s all about names, as the twitter exchange above illustrates so profoundly. And the other driver for the sad state of academia is of course having the quantity of published papers as the most important criterion for academic success. The more papers, the more citations, the bigger your name will become. It determines your chances of getting funding and therefore your career. If you want to make a career in science you have little options but to comply with this system.

        • candybrie@lemmy.worldEnglish
          6·
          7 months ago

          Ah. I hadn’t really considered preprints or workshops. If I just count the ones that seem to be published in journals or conferences, it’s 28. Still prolific. But reasonable in a 10-15 person lab.

      • GarlicToast@programming.devEnglish
        2·
        7 months ago

        Importance of order changes by field. In my field, at least for in lab work: first is the main lab person that worked on the project. Last is the PI, everyone that helped goes in the sandwich. I’m unsure about collaborations between labs and at that point too afraid to ask.

    • buddascrayon@lemmy.worldEnglish
      145·
      7 months ago

      There are some people in this world who are smarter and more motivated than we are.

      And then there are people who get a head start when their rich daddy gives 'em a bunch of money and they get lucky with how they invest that money but pretend to be a genius anyway.

    • Poik@pawb.socialEnglish
      91·
      7 months ago

      This is a fair question. But also, we’re talking about one of the most influential minds in deep learning. If anything he’s selling himself short. He’s definitely not first author on most of them, but I would give all my limbs to work in his lab.

      • candybrie@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        7 months ago

        I’m not questioning his contributions to the field. Just being on that many papers. It just seemed like such a crazy amount of publishing.

        Though deep learning has been on fire the last couple years. And the list posted included a lot of preprints and workshops, which I hadn’t really considered.

    • casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      3·
      7 months ago

      Yeah, even if he is advising or contributing, the way he put it sounds very disingenuous like he’s trying to inflate the number for his argument. Which MIGHT mean there likely was not many with immediately recognizable significance in that time (don’t yell at me, I have not taken the time to verify this).

      Either way, the way he responded comes across as very “I’m published, you’re not, neener neener!” which is not a good look for anyone with a doctorates.

      Also, genuine question, how significant was the contribution of LeNet-5 to the field of deep learning vs Neocognitron?

      • pflanzenregal@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        7 months ago

        He could’ve just said “I have a turing award, you don’t” if he wanted to show off.

        He is also called one of the godfathers of deep learning, so I’d say his contributions are very significant.

      • Ragnarok314159@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        4·
        7 months ago

        He is not first named on all of them, which means he likely advised masters and PhD/post docs on their work. It’s not uncommon.

        This many papers is uncommon, but how it happened is not out of the norm.

        • casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          2·
          7 months ago

          Right, I didn’t mean to imply that the practice was uncommon, just that using it as a defense of ego so readily was eyebrow-raising. I’m no academic, but I feel like I’d lose respect for my advisor had they used the paper I worked hard on as a way to boost numbers used as personal defense in some petty squabble in a public forum.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldEnglish
              26·
              7 months ago

              True, but you can compare writing 4000 novels a year with being able to write 80 papers a few pages long in 2.5 and say that both are possible.

              • refalo@programming.devEnglish
                6·
                7 months ago

                He didn’t write all those papers. He put his name on them. He also finds it worth his time to publicly argue with a pig in shit, so there’s that.

              • candybrie@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3·
                7 months ago

                The writing of the paper is generally a trivial part of the work. Each technical paper is supposed to be a succinct summary of months or years of technical work.

  • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
    301·
    7 months ago

    Bro Elon got absolutely ratio’d there when the scientist shared their papers. Like less people saw it and double the amount of likes.

    That is very surprising honestly.

  • Miaou@jlai.luEnglish
    22·
    7 months ago

    Anyone not knowing who LeCun has no idea about anything deep learning related.

    • EarthShipTechIntern@lemm.eeEnglish
      21·
      7 months ago

      The CEO of Neuralink? I’m betting he understands rocket science & e-vehicles about as well as he does deep learning.

      Capitalism: with driving seats for the most gloriously incompetent idiots & assholes. Narcissistic aspiring oligarchs? Welcome to the land of plenty.