If a topic keeps coming up no matter how much you try to censor it, consider that it’s not going away. Some changes are long overdue.

  • FQQD@lemmy.ohaa.xyz
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    7 months ago

    I can get behind being vegan, but something I can’t get behind is people annoying the crap out of others for not being vegan. Leaves a bad taste for the whole vegan community

    • amzd@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Well the animals can’t ask you to stop abusing them themselves so someone has to speak up

      • Norgur@fedia.io
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        7 months ago

        Where’s the shirt from that you are wearing? Who built the device you are using to post here?

        Where did the aluminum that’s used in your bike come from? Who dug it up?

        Why aren’t you speaking for those people as well? Are you fine with having those clothes and the neat devices? If so,what makes those workers less worthy of “speaking up” than say dairy cows?

        Thing is: there is so much abuse and exploitation going around on this world, one person cannot go against all of it, sadly. Everyone will have a different focus which sort of abuse they go against. Be it child abuse, worker exploitation, what have you.

        You can blame people for not trying to better the world at all, but reserving the right to determine which wrong deserves the most attention and judging people for not following you is arrogant.

          • Norgur@fedia.io
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            7 months ago

            No, im not saying you shouldn’t care about animals or that the matter of suffering animals is a trivial one because other things. That would be whataboutism. I’m saying that no one can care about all the suffering in the world at once. So you can’t blame people if they care about a suffering that’s not top priority to you and vice versa.

            I used the other things I listed as examples to demonstrate that a vegan might not care as much about other things that are bad as well. Which is fine. As I said: the only people we should really annoy are those who are doing nothing at all to better the pain and suffering in this world.

            • amzd@kbin.social
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              7 months ago

              Well that sounds like an appeal to futility while going vegan is so much simpler than eg stopping suffering in Gaza or Ukraine. It’s just choosing the plant milk that’s probably even in the same supermarket isle that you are in anyway. And after the initial effort of changing your habit you work on any other injustice you’re worried about

          • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            They threaded the needle on it, but they came back around to a point about the subject in the end.

        • MilitantVegan@lemmy.worldOP
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          7 months ago

          I remember reading about why greenhouse gas emissions are such a hot topic in environmentalism. The author showed how a lot of the other important environmental degredations we need to fix all interrelate right back to ghgs. Tackling emissions is a nexus problem - solving it simultaneously solves a lot of other environmental problems.

          Veganism is similar. In the first place, we are never going to meet climate goals without also becoming significantly more plant-centric, since the animal ag industry is one of the single largest climate change contributors (in addition to their other environmental harms like fecal pollution and deforestation).

          https://www.surgeactivism.org/aveganworld

          Going vegan also happens to be a form of fascist resistance, as the animal ag industry is one of the largest funders of conservative groups (including Democrats).

          https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?cycle=2024&ind=G2300

          https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?cycle=2024&ind=A04

          Going vegan is likely also one of the best choices you can make for your own health, particularly if you go the whole-food plant-based route.

          https://www.redpenreviews.org/reviews/proof-is-in-the-plants/

          Going vegan as a society is probably the only response that has any hope of averting an h5n1 pandemic - which could wipe out as much as half of the human population when it occurs.

          https://www.surgeactivism.org/notifbutwhenbirdflu

          And if worker rights and worker exploitation matters to you, then you should know that animal ag is one of the worst offenders.

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sWyK389BJoI&t=915s

          Going vegan solves many problems, and it’s an issue that can’t be handwaived with the line “but corporations produce 70%” — sorry. No magically ideal government is ever going to get 99% of the population to go vegan. It’s cultural, and that means individual action matters. If even one person adopts a vegan lifestyle, it’s estimated that as many as 200 fewer animals will be slaughtered per year.

          Like it or not, we all have a responsibility to stop animal abuse. Doing so just so happens to help eliminate or at least alleviate a lot of other pressing problems as well.

    • MilitantVegan@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 months ago

      What leaves a bad taste for the vegan community is when a vegan tries to coddle carnists because they’re afraid of not fitting in. Animal abuse is shameful, and people should be confronted and shamed for their abuses.

      • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I get what you’re saying, but the reality is if you are trying to do good, it doesn’t matter how “right” you are if you are a dick about it.

        Take Doctor Ignaz Semmelweis, for example. He worked hard and found a way to dramatically reduce deaths of women in childbirth (and tons of others besides) by washing hands after autopsies. Instead of trying to convince other doctors and influence the medical culture, he confronted and shamed other doctors, even to the point the doctors who he had gotten to start washing their hands stopped. Could he have caught more flies with honey than vinegar? Probably. But he was right, so what did it matter the method he used?

        What mattered is hand-washing didn’t get adopted. But I’m sure being right offered him some comfort when he was dying of sepsis in a mental asylum. Not to mention the women who died of infection.

        The point is, do you want to Be Right, or do you want to do good? Because all this makes it sound like you want to Be Right.

        • zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev
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          7 months ago

          So you’re saying carnists are the baby killers in this metaphor? Yeah, I’m not sure you’re making a good point about catching flies with honey while saying the flies/baby killers have their heads so far up their asses and are so stupid that they have to be tricked into doing the right thing.

          • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Well that answers that, doesn’t it.

            Then there’s your answer. Your memes get deleted and your comments get down voted because you aren’t trying to do any good, you’re just trying to flaunt how Right and morally superior you are.

              • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Oops, missed the name, my fault. It sounded like MilitantVegan responding, so I didn’t check.

                But if you think it’s contrary to my point, you’re missing my point. The point is, it doesn’t matter how right you are if you end up making no change because you’re an asshole about it.

                To be clear, yes, in this situation history may look back on meat eaters as we do the doctors that wouldn’t wash their hands. That’s perfectly possible. But MilitantVegan (and every other vegan that tries to confront and shame people into being vegan) is not helping the situation, they’re just patting themselves on the back for being right. That doctor didn’t do much to save lives, either, regardless how right he was about it.