It’s bizarre the Republican base is so firmly behind Trump. A normal Republican would probably win given Biden’s unpopularity, but the prospect of another Trump presidency is enough to get people to vote for anything with a D on it.
Eh. The entire republican party is rotted to the core. Everyone continuing to fall in line after Jan 6th demonstrated that beyond any doubt.
If you were to rewind the clock 20 years, and regular republican could probably beat Biden. But it’s not just the president. It’s the entire party. And I hope enough people would understand that enough to not vote a “normal” republican in.
But the fact that it seems close to half the voters in this country actually want blatant corruption, abuse of powers, and straight facism. It’s mind blowing.
I think it’s a bit unfair to say they’re voting in corruption knowingly.
People in America are desperate for change. For over 50 years productivity has continued to rise while material living conditions have stagnated or gotten worse. Us Americans can be pretty dumb sometimes, but even we can recognize those facts. The media and Washington’s insistence on gaslighting us that things have never been better really doesn’t help matters.
Trump is rightly recognized as a political outsider, although he’s a fake populist and will never deliver meaningfully on what he promises. The true travesty is that the entire establishment is dead set on ensuring no leftist outsider ever makes it to the ballot. If there’s one thing everyone in power can agree upon, it’s that left wing policies that would tend to the basic needs of the people are the true enemy.
And so, what are we the people to do?
Trump is also a fake political outsider. He’s known and schmoozed with every single American president since Nixon. Toyed with presidential runs a number of times. And that’s just barely scratching the surface.
Name a group representative of the wealthy and powerful. And Trump has tried to be a part of it. But also roundly rejected by it. Because no matter how evil the group generally is, they are still smart enough to want nothing to do with him.
True, he’s so desperate to be accepted by the elite. But too dumb to ever truly make it. Quite the useful idiot, however
It really revealed every ounce of corruption in this country. All is found in shadows.
What’s funny to me is how moderate Republicans have demonstrated they’re willing to vote for a far right candidate. For leftists and progressives it just underscores how little moderates have bothered to compromise for decades.
honestly, I… I wouldn’t be surprised to find out both sides really are the same, and trump was put up there explicitly to force everyone into voting for Biden and his ilk. You know, maintain the illusion of choice.
(I don’t really believe that. I’m just saying… you know…? )
I wouldn’t be surprised to find out both sides really are the same
Until 2016, I did see the two major political parties in the USA as two sides of the same broken coin. Trump brought out something ugly I thought we’d left in the past.
there is something to be said about centrist democrats being perfectly willing to share power with republicans, but yeah, Trump is a whole 'nother level of evil. It’s like not just saying the quiet part out loud, but more like screaming the quiet part of what the intrusive-voice-in-your-head says. if that makes sense.
part of the reason we’ll likely never move beyond the 2 party system is because it’s better to share power than it is to risk losing it all.
A black guy was in my store recently saying he’s voting for Trump. I asked him why, he literally hates your people, and his response left the most twisted look on my face: “get money”.
Obviously, I had no response
Yeah, I was working with a black guy that had a maga hat. He eventually brought it up and I pointed that out. His reply? “He’s right, I hate them too.”
You work with Clarence Thomas?
Heh, no, just some dude that only lasted a couple weeks. It’s a black owned charity, staffed with mainly black people. He wasn’t fired on the spot, but he didn’t return the following week. We all now call him The South side Uncle Ruckus. The worst part is he was there due to the work requirement of receiving welfare. A lot of his political bitching was about people sitting at home, leaching off the government, and how this is what has ruined the black community.
Suppose he was speaking from a position of authority on the subject?
More projection than authority
Gaslight Obstruct Project
That’s different, he’s one of the good ones. He’s just down on his luck and going through hard times, he’s not a lazy freeloader just taking money on the government dole.
Those are two completely different situations, don’t you know. One happens to him after all.
(I’ve literally heard the first part verbatim multiple times in conversations like that. Its mind blowing how close they get to understanding.)
It’s funny, both haha and sad. The first time I heard the “one of the good ones” line was from my racist uncle about the black guy he worked with. As the years went on it became apparent every black person my uncle got to know, at all, was “one of the good ones”. One time I told my uncle that every black person he ever really met turned out to be “a good one”, so, like, maybe that’s because he is wrong?
That wasn’t the reason of course.
Good ole Uncle Ruckus. No relation.
What’s “it”? The fact that he was wearing the hat? If so, it’s weird to talk to some stranger and just say “hey, check out my hat”.
I think they’re saying the black guy was wearing a maga hat, OP said to them what the top commenter said, “[Trump] hates your people”, and the maga hat wearing black guy said “I hate them too”.
…politics. He brought up politics.
Talk about Trump
My response would be “what money?”
It’s cute how everyone is pretending there’ll ever be another election if Trump gets back in. He’ll feel spitted, and giving up the presidency a second time will literally feel like an existential issue for him.
For Trump leaving office will be the equivalent of feeling like he’s dying, publically and shamefully.
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It’s fine, just make whatever rules you want! I’m sure we’ll still have the power to stop you when we’re tired of your tantrum!
Worse than that, some people think they’ll just start a rebellion.
Like bruh, he’ll have control of the military. 100,000,000 people with semi-auto rifles are no match for tanks, helicopters, and people with training.
The military isn’t made of stormtroopers. The oath of both enlistment and commissioned officers is to the Constitution, not the president; specifically to defend it against “all enemies, foreign and domestic”.
He’d get himself assassinated, likely by a military servicemember in accordance with their sworn obligation.
Just because you swear an oath doesn’t mean you will feel like sticking your life on the line to sneak past the secret service and assassinate a domestic enemy president. At best, the military might refuse some unlawful orders.
Dictator for a day, every day.
Dictator for today
It’s funny how this conversation wasn’t had during the 2020 primaries. Seems like a good time for everyone to sit down and be like “ok who can we all back collectively”. But as usual that’s not how the primaries worked and moderates got their perfect candidate while everybody else got nothing or next to nothing.
Christianity emerged out of rumour and legend to grab the minds of fools and it transformed the world in very chaotic and destructive ways. Q Anon is setting up to out do Christianity. The numbers on Q’s growth are terrifying.
this a naive and reductionist view of christianity. it was actually a quite revolutionary and radical movement. god himself became human and lost faith. as zizek puts it, christianity is the most athiestic religion.
jesus was a radical figure trying to kick the romans out of judea - which is why he got executed. he was against the organized religion and the power structures of the time. a few decades after, there was a jewish revolt and the jews controlled jerusalem for a few years. the Romans sent a large army, captured it, and decided to deal with the “jewish question” by making judiasm illegal and scattering the jews
paul, christianity’s don draper, who wrote half the bible and the earliest works of the bible, came up with all sorts of fantastic stories (3 day resurrection, immaculate birth, etc) and modified the story to make it friendlier to roman gentiles (pontius pilate washed his hands in the bible and didn’t want to kill jesus. in reality he killed thousands of jews a year. he wouldn’t have given jesus a second thought)
so christianity went from a jewish cult to a fast-growing religion and that spread across the empire until eventually Constantine himself converted
christianity is the story of the tenacity of the jewish people and the soft power they managed to propagate throughout the empire even after the empire tried to stamp them out. it’s the story of a small desert people conquering the roman empire against all odds
you reduce it so something so simplistic and naive and it’s sad. people should learn the full story.
I really don’t see there’s specific evidence for what motivated Jesus, what his goals were or even anything he actually said. Maybe he was a real specific person, but for sure he would have been much less than how the stories portray him. We can say this for certainty because the gospels contradict each other in the specific events of his life.
You seem to be creating your christian narrative out of wishful thinking just because you want to see it that way. Very normal Christian thinking on your part.
I hate this need to for legend and superstition to justify value systems. It’s so easy to manipulate people with this mentality. Look at Qanon. Just believing anything that affirms their prejudice fears. When the leader comes along who can codify and canonize the belief system it’s going to be a disaster for civilization.
It’s cute how everyone is pretending there’ll ever be another election if Trump gets back in
God I am so tired of these hysterical takes. What you should worry about is Trump using the machinery of state to crack down on political enemies, not him becoming dictator for life. People watch way too many movies
The problem isn’t that it’s a hysterical idea, it’s that Trump is dumb, unhinged, and blindly supported enough to try it. We know because he literally tried.
hmmm, should i vote for an old guy who believes in democracy or should I vote for a useful idiot to the russians who hates minorites whether it be gender or sexual preference and whatnot and would hand ukraine over to putin in a silver platter, undermine nato any way possible for daddy putin and also crown himself king and end all further elections while imprisoning his enemies and all the other things he lied about and said were being done to him…
damn, I can’t really figure it out! I can’t stop WaVeRiNg!!!
GODDAMN MORONS ARE GOING TO KILL US ALL, JESUS CHRIST
I understand the wavering. I voted uncommitted in my primary because Biden will win that without my help and it’s a small way of officially filing my disappointment. But if (let’s be honest, when) I get my presidential ballot and I have a choice between Trump and Biden and probably some third party, I’ll hold my nose and cast a vote for Biden. As much as I hate it, it’s not even a question.
It depends where you live. If you are in a deep red state, it doesn’t matter. If we went blue enough for my vote to swing the state, Biden has already won anyway. I feel safe voting 3rd party and not giving him a symbolic popular vote.
With no electoral college, down ballot matters. Vote blue on those!
Make sure you vote though!
No doubt I’ll be voting. My state has turned from red to purple to blue pretty consistently over the past decade or two, so I do feel pretty safe that Biden will swing the electoral college here. Down ballot does matter, and I’ll be doing my research on the more local matters before casting my ballot. The ballot I just filed was for the Democratic primary, and there were no other items to vote on. My city passed ranked choice voting for city level elections, and this year I believe will be the first election where we get to use that system. I’m excited to see how it goes and if that will be used to swing our local politics harder to the left.
I’m excited to see how it goes and if that will be used to swing our local politics harder to the left.
Oh, I hope so.
My one worry about ranked choice is that it’ll be only marginally better, and the, er, mathematical quirks of it will freak people out about voting reform.
There was a story I half remember about Republicans giving the popular vote in a ranked choice to two of their candidates (a vote split, huge problem with fptp) and accidentally letting in a Democrat or something. It was the thing that made me realize I actually wanted STAR.
Doesn’t Australia have ranked choice? They probably like it, right?
You may be thinking of this scenario in Alaska: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/how-alaskas-new-voting-system-helped-deliver-historic-win-us-democrats-2022-09-01/
Yeahh, that’s it.
Maybe instead of always forcing us to vote for the lesser of two evils, the democrats should take a second, listen to their base, and actually run someone competent.
Because right now, there is zero difference between how the republicans would handle this genocide and how the democrats are handling it. Both parties are in the pockets of oil companies and billionaires, and don’t want a change to the status quo.
Yes voting democrat is marginally better, but it’s not as vast a chasm as people like to make out. The system itself is broken - fucking around in the system isn’t going to fix it. It needs to be smashed and then rebuilt back up
And that would be a powerful argument if the power of the presidency extended only to Gaza. Let’s keep doing what Michigan did and show our anger in the primaries. Worst case, they ignore it. In the best case, they get scared and listen.
EITHER WAY, when it’s down to Trump v Biden, remember those who don’t have the luxury to “watch the world burn for 4 more years.” Even if you concede that Biden is objectively as bad at handling Gaza as Trump would be (I truly believe Trump will be miles worse), there are so many more lives on the line.
I’ve voted in every election that’s taken place since I was old enough to. When it comes down to it, I’d still vote for biden, because I agree, having the democratic party in charge is way better than having the republicans in charge.
However, that also gives me pause. Because you shouldn’t be able to run on “hey I’m not as shitty as the other guy”
That’s what I hate about the two party system. Democrats by and large are not progressives. They prop up the current system just as much as anyone else. There needs to be an actual progressive party, and massive caps/bans on lobbying
this isn’t working anymore. people are getting numb to the “boogeyman” technique
dems have to offer something people want, otherwise the right is going to take over
and i think it’s too late by now
a boogeyman is something fake used to scare people into doing what you want. trump is a real threat. the country got noticeably, objectively worse, our supreme court is now corrupt for decades to come, he defanged the epa and if he gets in again, goodby climate work, hello actually dictator. he’s directly said he will be one “for a day” lol. it’s not a boogeyman if the danger is real.
This election is going to be a choice between getting shit smeared on your face or getting shit injected into your veins- you hate both options to the core, but only one is survivable.
No. Biden is like being made to eat your vegetables. They might not taste good but you have to do it.
Voting for Trump and Republicans is like eating shit for money. Everyone is going to be worse off, oh and only the people on top get paid for it. Everyone else is just screwed.
Mmmm, vegetables are good for you. Voting for Biden is not a total catastrophe, but he’s not a strong leader or a great influence on the world. He’s a functioning adult, and we badly need him to win, but let’s not pretend that the progressives who don’t love the guy are wishing we had cake and ice cream for dinner.
If you refuse to vote or vote “none of the above”, that’s just not eating dinner. That’s not an option that’s going to work.
People are still yelling about Bernie because there hasn’t been a good progressive candidate for president in 8 years.
I have a challenge for everyone who says “our leaders are too old”: what new leaders are you looking for? Who are you finding?
I don’t mean the narcissists the media is pushing (Pete Buttigieg, Gavin Newsom, Andrew Yang, etc.). Who are you finding in your local area? Yes, we have to do the work.
“We are the ones we’ve been waiting for”
– Alice Walker (look her up)
I agree with you that we need a new class of better leaders, and I agree we all need to vote for Biden in the general election. Then again, I have zero interest in running for anything.
But it remains his job to win votes, and he’s failing. He’s failing all of us. He has a responsibility to the American people to win this election, and he’s fucking it up the same exact way Hillary did in 2016, only he won’t have Bernie to blame this time around.
Tammy Duckworth. If we make it, I hope I live to see that woman become president in 2028 or beyond.
Don’t taste good?
Given all Biden is doing for women with abortion and ivf, he’s getting kids breakfast and lunch money, he’s helping reduce college loan disasters, Medicare is going after pharmas that price gouge, he’s the first president ever to join union members on the picket line, I could go on.
It is not perfect and it isn’t 5 Michelin star quality but it definitely tastes good.
Whoever thought that was a good idea is insane. Are they trying to lose.the country to fascism?
My vegetables usually don’t support, defend, and finance genocidal states.
How much food including fruits and vegetables like garlic or mushrooms do you suspect we import from China?
Not that much. The US is really good at producing food, and Mexico is right there for year round growing as well.
I had to go look it up, it’s more than I thought, but not as much as I ultimately expected. I included all food products for completeness. 2023 numbers:
| product | value | year| |——————————-|———-|———| | Fish, crustaceans, molluscs, aquatics invertebrates | $1.31B | 2023 | | Animal, vegetable fats and oils, cleavage products | $850.73M | 2023 | | Vegetable, fruit, nut food preparations |$833.00M | 2023 | | Miscellaneous edible preparations | $670.05M | 2023 | | Edible vegetables and certain roots and tubers | $358.31M | 2023 | | Meat, fish and seafood preparations | $278.46M | 2023 | | Cereal, flour, starch, milk preparations and products | $248.89M | 2023 | | Coffee, tea, mate and spices | $233.34M | 2023 | | Sugars and sugar confectionery | $204.28M | 2023 | | Oil seed, oleagic fruits, grain, seed, fruits | $171.07M | 2023 | | Edible fruits, nuts, peel of citrus fruit, melons | $131.20M | 2023 |
So about 1% of food imports. The US also exports about 5-10x that amount to China. Source
most all of our food comes either domestically, or mexico.
We actually export more food (soy beans, in particular) to china.
I’m aware, but I also know that we get a sizable chunk of our imports of garlic and mushrooms from China.
Like I said, it is more than I thought, but less than I expected. Given how global a lot of products are anymore, it wouldn’t have surprised me if it was more than the 2023 numbers showed.
It is, however, a very insignificant amount of our overall food; and trade is not quite the same thing as directly sending money and arms.
Keep in mind, part of why we accept their trade at all is to maintain some influence with their policies. Which historically, was the reason we gave Israel so much aid- to give us a leash.
But it has become clear that Biden and basically everyone else is unwilling to yank that leash. Which means, we’re directly supporting genocide.
Maybe I wasn’t clear, as I was trying to follow the metaphor of Biden being the equivalent of “eating your vegetables”. Biden has been sending arms to Israel as it commits genocide, publicly locking arms with them no matter the attrocity of the day, and actively protecting them from consequences in the UN. So he’s not just some boring politician doing a good job even if he’s not inspiring. He’s a actively contributing to crimes against humanity. Supporting Biden, and by extension genocide in Gaza, just to avoid Trump is not like eating vegetables, which are not tasty but good for you.
it’s also important that rhetoric aside, his actions are very clearly supportive. Funding, arms sales/shipments, blocking UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire.
Given that Biden could* veto any funding bill (that’d probably be suicide given the riders,); is the one who decides to use veto powers at the UN security council… and went out of his way to expedite arms sales…
…there is zero question in my mind he’s 100% israel as it commits genocide.
… That’s an option? You mean I didn’t have to eat the terrorist organization tabouli? What would I eat with my hummus or couscous? (they can’t share a plate)
No. Biden is like being made to eat your vegetables.
“Supporting genocide is good for you!”
Trump is like eating a full bowl of shit. Biden is like eating a half bowl of shit. You’ll still be eating shit.
This is a wrong headed metaphor. And anyone who has had to deal with actual feces would always chose the less of two weevils.
Aside from this whole Israel/Genocide thing, Biden has been a pretty solid leader despite a completely dysfunctional congress.
“Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?”
Unpopular take here on Lemmy, but when was the last time the USA didn’t support war on some country inhabited by people who aren’t white. I don’t see Israel as some kind of special exceptional case here.
Also obviously Trump wouldn’t stop supporting Israel. Or maybe he would only because he needs all those weapons to fight a civil war.
Two old pieces of shit way past their expiration date.
And we get to pick one!
Makes it really difficult to get up the enthusiasm to vote when it’s all shit in some way or another, but it’s important to remember that not all shits are created equal. I will without doubt pick the shit that is just old and shitty over the one that is old, shitty, and actively trying to destroy democracy in the US.
“Voting is a chess move, not a valentine.” —I forget who said this
I don’t know who said it either and I’ve never heard it until now. What a great way of looking at it!
People who consider voters to be pawns.
I said it with the 2022 election for the campaign I worked on, but it’s really less an election and more of a “who can make the most people from the opposing side not vote.”
get up the enthusiasm to vote
fucking gross.
It’s your goddamn duty as a citizen, it’s not going to see your favorite show. If you have to ‘get up the enthusiam’ to simply FUCKING VOTE… then you really must not care about the path this country takes. If you did, you would vote every time with fervor knowing you are helping to safeguard the country/state/city and its associated future.
with that said, I’m glad you say you will absolutely be voting, so props. I just think it is disturbing how many think about voting the way you do and more disturbing is that even more don’t and don’t vote at all
I vote for the other stuff; this post and the thread to which I replied is talking about the two options we have for president.
I’d be more enthusiastic about voting in the presidential election if it made a difference. I don’t live in a swing state; my state is all but guaranteed to go to Biden in November. My vote counts for a fraction of someone in a different state, which just furthers the notion that it’s a pointless gesture.
But do be disturbed. It should be disturbing that a growing number of people feel the way I do. That isn’t just reflective of us; it’s reflective of the broken system. Maybe try directing some of your disgust in that direction instead of just patronizing someone on the internet.
Hopefully this time Biden doesn’t tell black people who won’t vote for them they aren’t black. That really didn’t help him win them over last time.
Biden: If you don’t vote Biden you ain’t black. Black person: * doesn’t vote * 🎉 White privilege obtained 🎉 Thanks
ObamaBiden
This is just stupid. Everyone is flawed. Politicians are just people. They are all flawed.
I think they talk about political positions, not about personal flaws. But still their view is stupid, because every person has their own preferences, and when they vote, it is always a compromise, unless you vote for yourself.
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Biden is just not a good candidate. Swap him out. Pull some one off the back benches if you need to.
Only requirements are that they are breathing, and are eight years younger than normal retirement age, and they’ll likely be doing better than Biden is rn.
Oh you mean all of those people on the back bench that Biden beat once already?
The people that, unlike Biden, have never beaten Trump in an election?
The people who aren’t the incumbent president when history shows a very clear pattern of voters choosing to re-elect incumbents?
I mean come on, Biden didn’t win the democratic nomination. It was handed to him on super-Tuesday. Bloomberg was just vomiting money to get easy media attention and then just dropped out. Elizabeth Warren was polling well then suddenly backed out, and all the super-delegates (something that shouldn’t exist) had pledged their votes well before the actual convention. Then all that was left was Bernie who got smoked because there was no time to recover
Sure you could argue that’s savvy political maneuvering which is what you want in a president but my point is that Biden didn’t successfully campaign as much as he let other people do it and then got their support. Something he can’t repeat as an incumbent
Before anyone says anything, I’m voting for him, I’m just trying to avoid revisionist history
The fix to give Biden the nomination was pretty slick. At least the DNC managed to keep their email secure this time.
Oh you mean all of those people on the back bench that Biden beat once already
So? Those people he beat keep sitting on the bench because candidates like Biden can’t permanently address the Republican party. You can either hand off the reigns to a smaller faction of the Democrat party or lose their votes. Make a choice.
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Just some random blur state governer would be way better
Gretchen Whitmer.
Jay Inslee.
Ron Wyden or Jeff Merkley
Fuck even Gavin fucking shit in my mouth Newsom.
Thats just the west coast.
Plenty of blue governors and senators from safe blue states that can do this.
Also, we can look outside of government. I’m very serious that a Jon Stewart run would EASILY beat trump, and he’d be far better on the middle east.
newsome deserves to be number one or two on that list, esp after what he’s been up to in the run up to this election
For the sake of DEMOCRACY, like it or not, Biden is the man that has to win
I can’t believe we’ve voted for the lesser of two evils for an entire generation, to the point that the lesser evil is a strike breaking, border wall building, senile octogenarian that’s bypassing Congress to sell arms to a genocidal ethnostate, and liberals still can’t come up with a better alternative.
I’m almost 38 now and I’ve pretty much never had a president to be excited for. In my previous ignorance I was excited for Obama and then quickly let down by the system that kill any progress.
I really don’t know what I should have expected from a country that was completely built on greed. Everyone that started it to the people that moved here (immigrants want a better future = they(we, we’re all children of immigrants) want more money = build businesses = greed. Everything about this country is about money money money. That’s literally it.
America is the land of the fee, home of the billionaire.
“If you hate it so much why don’t you leave!?” Oh my freindo I wish I could.
Land of the fee, home of the slave
Funny enough, it costs $2350 to renounce your citizenship. Administrative fee for the paperwork apparently. They get your money at every turn in this country, I swear…
But how do they collect? Or does no legitimate nation give you citizenship without doing that first?
I imagine your parents had to pay for birth cert, SSN if you are in US, record of birth, etc. Just gets rolled into the $500k bill you get when having a kid.
What? Now I’m more lost than before. Hahahhahaa. I’ve got kids… Didn’t cost 500k. Maybe I’m missing a joke here. I’m wondering if you give up your citizenship and they supposedly charge 2800 to do so… Do they send the USMC to collect payment or what?
This whole “lesser evil” narrative is daft and it needs to stop.
If I had an army of bots and got paid to help GOP win the election I would make and upvote comments exactly like this one.
Biden is not the POTUS you “want” in a fairytale idealist kind of way. Deal with it.
The “both parties are just as bad as each other” angle only helps one side, and it ain’t progressive.
How ever will someone choose between one candidate who is unacceptable and another who is acceptable. Tough one.
They look at it this way:
Do you like to lick boots? Do you want a dictator? Are you easily manipulated by fox “news”? Are you a racist piece of shit? Are you more concerned with what your neighbor is doing in their bedroom than yourself?
IF you’ve answered yes to any of these, CONGRATS!!! YOU are a piece of shit and you’re voting against democracy and decency. You are however, voting for Russian asset while calling yourself a patriot…
Given the options, it’s really not a tough choice. Not happy? Instead of whining about it, go run for office.
