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If it wasn’t collapsing, it wouldn’t be in the red.
checkmate tankies
the higher they climb the faster they fall! got’em
I think when the highest quality most respected China collapse preachers say collapse, they mean entering a Japan style stagnation. I’m not sure, because that would require me to consume a lot of China collapse preacher content, but I think that’s how they can justify the narrative across different levels of seriousness.
Even that narrative is fundamentally flawed because Japan’s stagnation in the 80s was a direct result of US imposing Plaza Accords on Japan. There is no opportunity for US to do the same with China.
yeah so many propagandists point to the slow down in economic growth from “socialist god” levels to “economic miracle” levels and are like china is falling apart they are due for a depression any day
Gotta have a reason to keep those Gordon Chang books on the shelf.
If you hold that graph up to your ear, you can actually hear the liberals going “yes but actually…”
I did and they sent me this WSJ article
Shoot, I don’t have it offhand but you should send the Ben Norton video back, where he talked about how China is letting their property sector fail in order to shift their economy to being focused on green energy and tech.
As well, he mentions how morally corrupt it is to use property as an investment and how shifting where your investments are is actually a better idea.
Tbf China’s economy is less decayed (there’s less surplus capital), but that’s not a point for capitalism.
As an aside - anyone know what’s going on in Germany? I was under the impression they were doing things pretty well over there
Much of German economy was supported by farming and manufacturing sectors. These were predicated on getting cheap energy from Russia to stay competitive. At the start of the war, German government provided subsidies to offset the shock of energy prices shooting up. The idea was that Russian economy would collapse quickly due to western sanctions, and then everything would go back to normal.
Now that subsidies are running out, Germany can’t compete with manufacturing in places like China where there energy is much cheaper, and farmers are literally coming out with pitchforks because they can’t make ends meet.
Very interesting. Thank you for the response! I’m a somewhat ignorant westerner so I always think of Germany as being very much a high end manufacturing and sciences based country - making fairly complex industrial machinery and precision tools and such. I didn’t know they relied on Russia so heavily, though I suppose it makes sense given its location.
Unfortunate that they didn’t take some notes from Frances book and get heavy into Nuclear.
Indeed, if Germany invested in alternative energy first then decoupling from Russia wouldn’t have been such a big problem. For some weird reason German greens absolutely hate nuclear though.
There’s a liberal trend in green politics here in the US that hates nuclear energy, also. They tend to justify the view by only ever bringing up the dangers of nuclear power, and arguments about nuclear waste (ignoring the fact we keep getting better in both these areas). I’m willing to bet the German greens hold the same views.
That’s my impression as well. It’s just kind of become a cult at this point with no rational thought behind it.
They tend to justify the view by only ever bringing up the dangers of nuclear power, and arguments about nuclear waste (ignoring the fact we keep getting better in both these areas).
I’ve even seen people like that on here before when the topic’s come up too, it’s an annoyingly common sentiment
I’m not surprised. I’ve seen a few green politics opinions here that seem idealistic or moralistic to me.
One data point doesn’t make a trend. The Chinese economy isn’t collapsed, but the rate of growth of GDP for China has been negative (rate of growth, it’s still positive growth) since at least 2012 from what I can see. The US rate of growth is fairly static over the same time (a slightly positive rate of growth, but not much), but about half the value of China’s.
Don’t cherry pick data. It’s not useful.
That’s only a problem for those who demand exponential growth. And your assumptions are based on the unsustainable model of western imperialism; as China implements it’s green energy, transport, automated agriculture, and housing policies, those sectors won’t need to keep ‘growing’ as they do in capitalist states to prop up GDP. Even if it’s right that if the slowing rate of growth leads to a net GDP shrinkage, it doesn’t portend collapse.
That’s not counting the effect of BRICS+ and the BRI on interpreting GDP. You don’t need such a high GDP when you cooperate with your neighbours, when your GDP isn’t a measure of how much you bully your neighbours and oppress your foreign and domestic workforce.
Many have repeatedly and outstandingly wrongly claimed either bluntly or in what they think is ‘clever’ subtleness that China is about to collapse. Do you really want to be in that crowd when the music stops?
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That’s only a problem for those who demand exponential growth.
Dude, GDP only matters for that. I’m not the one who started talking about GDP. Either this thread is useless because the measure (GDP) is useless, or it’s perfectly fine to talk about the context of what the threads about. Either way, it’s the OP you should complain about.
Anyway, China’s GDP is growing at about double the US’s. It doesn’t matter though, right? It’s growing at a negative rate, but it’s still growing faster than almost anyone else, because China('s government) cares about GDP, even though GDP doesn’t help the average person.
Doesn’t the US count things like the excessive healthcare costs into its GDP?
This is literally the GDP growth rate. I don’t think you know what you are talking about, but please point us to a definition of the indicator you are talking about as well as to the comparison by country.
I think they’re comparing the 2nd derivative of GDP; the growth rate is the 1st derivative.
The claim is roughly:
The US is growing slowly, but doing so at a consistent pace. It will keep growing 2% indefinitely.
China is growing faster now, but the rate is slowing year over year. They will grow 5% this year, 4% next year,… The implication is that they’ll eventually settle domewhere below the US for (preferred boogeyman reason)
Of course the premise is low value speculation, but the math concepts can be parsed.
yeah they’re talking about the rate of the rate of growth… which maybe helps them with cognitive dissonance by still being able to find some negative thing about why China still seems to be doing just fine
I don’t need to find anything negative with China. I don’t have an issue with China. Look at this graph and tell me it’s going up.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
This is IMF forecast data. Check how it looks like for the G7. Spoiler: it’s far worse than this forecast for China. How does the forecast of 1% US growth in 2024 fit into your “stable growth of the US”?
China is still growing far faster than the G7 so you missed the point entirely.
The US is growing slowly, but doing so at a consistent pace. It will keep growing 2% indefinitely.
I’m not claiming this. Nothing can.
China is growing faster now, but the rate is slowing year over year. They will grow 5% this year, 4% next year,… The implication is that they’ll eventually settle domewhere below the US for (preferred boogeyman reason)
Pretty much this, without the boogeyman reason. I’m not claiming a reason. I don’t even think it’ll be below US levels necessarily, but it won’t keep growing as fast as it was. The trend is pretty steady, for the US and China, though things of course change and it’s probably logarithmic I’d guess, not linear. It’ll steady out somewhere. (Edit: Well, it’ll steady out per capita probably, which is part of why GDP is so useless. It’s not measured per capita.)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
There’s no need to make things up. Either China (and any other country) can stand on its own or it can’t. People shouldn’t be mislead. Now, I don’t think GDP is that useful, but I didn’t start the thread about GDP.
It’s 1 year. The rate at which it’s growing is negative. If the trend continues it goes below US levels fairly soon, though it’s GDP so who cares.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263616/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-china/
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A screenshot of a Twitter post without any context from an account well known to simp for China
Meanwhile their housing market, which they use as a massive investment vehicle, crumbles further.
Who is Xu Juayin?
Who is Jack Ma?
Guess nobody.
edit: Chinese bots are TRIGGERED.
lmfao shut the fuck up all of you.
Who is Xu Juayin?
Who is Jack Ma?
Guess nobody.
you’ve guessed correctly, now can you please fuck off
argue the facts or cry you chose to cry
this is why you’re my favorite
😄
yeah we already know you’re a nazi
aww muffin, I see you’re still seething and coping that your color revolution failed 😂 https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
so they didn’t kill student’s is that what you’re saying lol
Nah, I’m saying you’re a racist nazi who only deserves ridicule and contempt.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Compared to China’s population those numbers aren’t that insane. They’re pretty standard.
China also still uses mostly coal to produce their electricity.
Nothing is that insane here? What am I missing?
The sky is blue, no shit.
Good thing it’s GDP per capita
What are you actually saying here lol? Nothing you said matters are you meant to be worthless or were you trying to be?
Hey bro, you’re replying here for like 4 hours already. Are you OK? Don’t forget to go outside or sleep, please, it’s really important for your health
