I’m surprised this doesn’t get mentioned more, but Antony Blinken is a Jewish Zionist. That doesn’t seem like a good mediator here. He also has spent his whole career assisting in this kind of mass cruelty abroad. He worked under the Clinton and Bush whitehouses on national security. He was a staff member for the Senate foreign relations committee and advocated for the war in Iraq, which Biden then supported as the chair of that committee. Then he worked on the national security council under Obama and advocated for Obama’s disastrous intervention in Libya.
Also, I really feel like it’s weird that this doesn’t get more attention, so I’m going to repeat it: he’s a lifelong Zionist Jew. I know that phrase feels gross, but that’s literally his own self perception. It kind of feels like he’s a blood-soaked American imperialist who always cheerleads violence and could conceivably be characterized as basically a dual national with Israeli loyalties. He shouldn’t be secretary of state, let alone involved in this issue.
If, by “Zionist Jew”, you mean that he is a Jew that thinks that Israel has some right to exist in some fashion - which is what Zionist actually means - you are describing the vast majority of all Jews, and by extension arguing that no Jew should be allowed to be involved in this discussion.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a strange idea that you wouldn’t similarly support barring any Muslim from being involved in the talks.
That’s not a useful or accurate description of modern Zionism that is used by Zionists or antizionist Jews. If it were, it would leave room for a two-state solution, for instance. But the leadership of the modern Zionist movement and the Israeli government has been working aggressively since the Oslo accords to prevent the formation of any Palestinian state and also to ethnically cleanse Israel of its Israeli Palestinian population (I’m talking here about Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who for years have been second class citizens and faced threats of mass expulsion from their own elected leaders).
The Zionist movement largely has two camps, and if we include the Jewish antizonist movement, we have a general third:
Liberal Zionists - Those who support a welcoming homeland for Jews which is democratic, and of negotiable boundaries.
Religious Zionists - Those who believe unwavering in a god-given right to the full territory between the River Jordon and the Mediterranean Sea, and that their right justifies the removal of non Jews by any means.
Antizionist Jews - Those who believe that current inhabitants, the displaced former residents, and the children of both have a legal and moral right to remain and/or return to their family lands and live with full rights alongside those who’ve immigrated in the last century and the children of these immigrants.
Blinken is, as far as I’m aware, a liberal Zionist. The problem is that liberal Zionists have ceded Israeli policy fully to religious Zionists, and have been trying for at least a decade to somehow insist on using their own vision of Zionism as the framework for debate when critics challenge the obvious theocratic and genocidal impulses of religious Zionism as articulated plainly by the leaders of the movement, Itamar Ben Gvir (head of the police and prisons) and Bezalel Smotrich (finance minister). Netanyahu says nothing, but as he refuses to even lie and pretend to support a Palestinian state, his actions and tactical silence have shown him to be a religious Zionist in all ways that matter.
Also, I wouldn’t immediately disqualify a Muslim for the role any more than I’d disqualify a politically neutral Jew. But I would certainly object to an outspoken Muslim advocate of Palestinian Liberation in the role for the same reason I’d say that Blinken is not qualified to be a neutral and faithful representative of the US. The issue isn’t the circumstances of his birth: it’s his lifelong political involvement in the nationalist movement of one side.
I was raised singing the Hatikva (the Israeli anthem) every morning in school alongside the Star Spangled Banner, btw. I’m coming at this with plenty of first-hand knowledge.
You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldn’t exist and that Palestinian culture shouldn’t exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and told Channel 14 in Israel that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
Ok so that we can work from the same set of data where did you get the information for your claim? I do data analysis so I’d love to run it. I might even make some pretty graphs.
The Gaza Strip’s population of roughly 1.8 million has an unusually large proportion of children. Figures for 2013 from Index Mundi, the internet source of country data, show that that 42.5 percent of the population is aged 14 or under, compared with 32 percent in Egypt and 27 percent in Israel.
In a situation where disempowerment, underemployment and marginalisation have left few opportunities for expression of identity, reproduction is one of the few liberties which remains, and also contributes to the larger goal of increasing the Palestinian people. Data from Index Mundi show that the fertility rate in Gaza, 4.4 children per woman, is among the highest in the world. That has steadily fallen from a peak of 8.3 children per woman in 1991. This compares with a rate of 3 in Israel, although the overall rate there is elevated by higher rates of around 6 among the strictly orthodox Haredi Jews. In most European countries, it’s about 2.
It’s the place in the world where the least women work outside the home with only 14 percent of women in the labour market. While women are housebound, their husbands earn more money as their families expand. Traditionally, men will get extra wages if they have extra children.
So we have explained the high fertility rates and that about half the population is 14 or under. But why so many young kids and FAR fewer older adults? For the last 16 years, a blockade that’s been imposed on Gaza by Israel and enforced by Egypt and Israel controls everything that goes into and out of the Gaza Strip. So food, medicine, all of that is controlled by Israel. And the Gaza Strip lacks very basic health needs for the people living there. So as a result of Israel’s blockade and bombings of Gaza, life expectancy for Palestinians there is a full 10 years less than it is for Israelis living just a few miles away.
Now let’s look at the definition of Genocide.
Genocide is any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
A,B, and C all apply here.
And before you go for the “intent” get out of jail free card…
Israel’s Public Diplomacy Minister: "Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence & try to enter Egyptian territory or they will die & their death will be evil.
Gaza should be erased!"
Still questioning a genocidal intent?
How about Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and toldChannel 14 in Israel on Monday that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
What makes this conflict unique is the incredible power imbalance. This is not normally the case. For example Ethiopia’s genocide against Tigray, the Tigray militants are a powerful force which could conceivably conquer the entirety of Ethiopia and overthrow the central government. In contrast, Israel has the most powerful military in the region, backed up by the most powerful military in the world, and the most extensive global network of diplomatic support.
This is precisely why Israel’s choices now deserve more scrutiny. Given the vast power imbalance, Israel has options not afforded by other nations in this situation (such as Ethiopia). Given their insistence of choosing continued aggression, it is becoming harder to frame their intentions in a charitable way. If you insist on framing Israel’s intentions charitably, then you should afford that same fairness of understanding to the Palestinians also.
Do you want to talk about population growth since Oct 7th since that is the current conflict? Or how the population of Palestinians would be more than double the numbers if the Nakba had never happened?
I thought the Gaza death toll was the intent?
These things appear to be going as zionists intended and the state department is wilfully ignoring.
I’m surprised this doesn’t get mentioned more, but Antony Blinken is a Jewish Zionist. That doesn’t seem like a good mediator here. He also has spent his whole career assisting in this kind of mass cruelty abroad. He worked under the Clinton and Bush whitehouses on national security. He was a staff member for the Senate foreign relations committee and advocated for the war in Iraq, which Biden then supported as the chair of that committee. Then he worked on the national security council under Obama and advocated for Obama’s disastrous intervention in Libya.
Also, I really feel like it’s weird that this doesn’t get more attention, so I’m going to repeat it: he’s a lifelong Zionist Jew. I know that phrase feels gross, but that’s literally his own self perception. It kind of feels like he’s a blood-soaked American imperialist who always cheerleads violence and could conceivably be characterized as basically a dual national with Israeli loyalties. He shouldn’t be secretary of state, let alone involved in this issue.
If, by “Zionist Jew”, you mean that he is a Jew that thinks that Israel has some right to exist in some fashion - which is what Zionist actually means - you are describing the vast majority of all Jews, and by extension arguing that no Jew should be allowed to be involved in this discussion.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a strange idea that you wouldn’t similarly support barring any Muslim from being involved in the talks.
That’s not a useful or accurate description of modern Zionism that is used by Zionists or antizionist Jews. If it were, it would leave room for a two-state solution, for instance. But the leadership of the modern Zionist movement and the Israeli government has been working aggressively since the Oslo accords to prevent the formation of any Palestinian state and also to ethnically cleanse Israel of its Israeli Palestinian population (I’m talking here about Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who for years have been second class citizens and faced threats of mass expulsion from their own elected leaders).
The Zionist movement largely has two camps, and if we include the Jewish antizonist movement, we have a general third:
Liberal Zionists - Those who support a welcoming homeland for Jews which is democratic, and of negotiable boundaries.
Religious Zionists - Those who believe unwavering in a god-given right to the full territory between the River Jordon and the Mediterranean Sea, and that their right justifies the removal of non Jews by any means.
Antizionist Jews - Those who believe that current inhabitants, the displaced former residents, and the children of both have a legal and moral right to remain and/or return to their family lands and live with full rights alongside those who’ve immigrated in the last century and the children of these immigrants.
Blinken is, as far as I’m aware, a liberal Zionist. The problem is that liberal Zionists have ceded Israeli policy fully to religious Zionists, and have been trying for at least a decade to somehow insist on using their own vision of Zionism as the framework for debate when critics challenge the obvious theocratic and genocidal impulses of religious Zionism as articulated plainly by the leaders of the movement, Itamar Ben Gvir (head of the police and prisons) and Bezalel Smotrich (finance minister). Netanyahu says nothing, but as he refuses to even lie and pretend to support a Palestinian state, his actions and tactical silence have shown him to be a religious Zionist in all ways that matter.
Also, I wouldn’t immediately disqualify a Muslim for the role any more than I’d disqualify a politically neutral Jew. But I would certainly object to an outspoken Muslim advocate of Palestinian Liberation in the role for the same reason I’d say that Blinken is not qualified to be a neutral and faithful representative of the US. The issue isn’t the circumstances of his birth: it’s his lifelong political involvement in the nationalist movement of one side.
I was raised singing the Hatikva (the Israeli anthem) every morning in school alongside the Star Spangled Banner, btw. I’m coming at this with plenty of first-hand knowledge.
Thanks for this insightful comment.
https://www.theonion.com/israel-assures-it-doing-everything-possible-to-minimize-1851085308
That’s just the usual lemmy gaslighting. It’s always been about stomping out Hamas.
Well they see everyone in Gaza as Hamas/animals so they haven’t killed a single civilian in their mind.
Not according to them.
You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldn’t exist and that Palestinian culture shouldn’t exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and told Channel 14 in Israel that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
Genocide where population triples within a decade or more LOL.
Do I really need to explain why this is particular talking point is so mind numbingly moronic?
Yes please.
Ok so that we can work from the same set of data where did you get the information for your claim? I do data analysis so I’d love to run it. I might even make some pretty graphs.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine First link under population is: https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/statisticsIndicatorsTables.aspx?lang=en&table_id=676 It says as first measurement 1997: 2783084 And for 2023: 5483450 This is a 2x increase. How can anyone realistically argue with genocide when the population rises continuously and doubled within 25y.
The Gaza Strip’s population of roughly 1.8 million has an unusually large proportion of children. Figures for 2013 from Index Mundi, the internet source of country data, show that that 42.5 percent of the population is aged 14 or under, compared with 32 percent in Egypt and 27 percent in Israel.
In a situation where disempowerment, underemployment and marginalisation have left few opportunities for expression of identity, reproduction is one of the few liberties which remains, and also contributes to the larger goal of increasing the Palestinian people. Data from Index Mundi show that the fertility rate in Gaza, 4.4 children per woman, is among the highest in the world. That has steadily fallen from a peak of 8.3 children per woman in 1991. This compares with a rate of 3 in Israel, although the overall rate there is elevated by higher rates of around 6 among the strictly orthodox Haredi Jews. In most European countries, it’s about 2.
It’s the place in the world where the least women work outside the home with only 14 percent of women in the labour market. While women are housebound, their husbands earn more money as their families expand. Traditionally, men will get extra wages if they have extra children.
So we have explained the high fertility rates and that about half the population is 14 or under. But why so many young kids and FAR fewer older adults? For the last 16 years, a blockade that’s been imposed on Gaza by Israel and enforced by Egypt and Israel controls everything that goes into and out of the Gaza Strip. So food, medicine, all of that is controlled by Israel. And the Gaza Strip lacks very basic health needs for the people living there. So as a result of Israel’s blockade and bombings of Gaza, life expectancy for Palestinians there is a full 10 years less than it is for Israelis living just a few miles away.
Now let’s look at the definition of Genocide.
Genocide is any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
A,B, and C all apply here. And before you go for the “intent” get out of jail free card…
Israel’s Public Diplomacy Minister: "Erase all of Gaza from the face of the earth. That the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence & try to enter Egyptian territory or they will die & their death will be evil.
Gaza should be erased!"
Still questioning a genocidal intent?
How about Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and toldChannel 14 in Israel on Monday that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
What makes this conflict unique is the incredible power imbalance. This is not normally the case. For example Ethiopia’s genocide against Tigray, the Tigray militants are a powerful force which could conceivably conquer the entirety of Ethiopia and overthrow the central government. In contrast, Israel has the most powerful military in the region, backed up by the most powerful military in the world, and the most extensive global network of diplomatic support.
This is precisely why Israel’s choices now deserve more scrutiny. Given the vast power imbalance, Israel has options not afforded by other nations in this situation (such as Ethiopia). Given their insistence of choosing continued aggression, it is becoming harder to frame their intentions in a charitable way. If you insist on framing Israel’s intentions charitably, then you should afford that same fairness of understanding to the Palestinians also.
Do you want to talk about population growth since Oct 7th since that is the current conflict? Or how the population of Palestinians would be more than double the numbers if the Nakba had never happened?