Ah yes, the same talking point repeated over and over again. Next time try to use your brain instead of repeating the same line:
Despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza,[15] the United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators consider the territory to be still occupied by Israel, supported by additional restrictions placed on Gaza by Egypt.[100] Israel maintains direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza: it controls Gaza’s air and maritime space, as well as six of Gaza’s seven land crossings. It reserves the right to enter Gaza at will with its military and maintains a no-go buffer zone within the Gaza territory. Gaza is dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.[15] The extensive Israeli buffer zone within the Strip renders much land off-limits to Gaza’s inhabitants.[101] The system of control imposed by Israel was described in the fall 2012 edition of International Security as an “indirect occupation”.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Or are you trying to convince me that Gaza is a paradise on earth? Why do you think those tunnels exists at the first place? Have you heard of freedom of movement? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement. How would you feel if you are not allowed to leave 41sq. km, don’t have a single functioning airport, you can’t even use the territorial waters, because they are also controlled by Israel, and your whole economy is heavily restricted. But yes, continue repeating yourself that Israel is a spotless angel who don’t have anything to do with the events from the 7th of October.
Don’t forget filled with the constant sound of drones to the point people can’t sleep or study, a majority of their water isn’t drinkable, they don’t control their own trash, and they restricted the amount of calories into their to be the bare minimum at one point.
The tunnels are built to provide strategic advantage over Israeli military superiority. Also to smuggle equipment for rockets which Hamas has plenty of and uses them regularly.
Ordinary Gazans do not get to use the tunnels to hide and stay alive. They are needed as human shields instead.
Israel is far from being a spotless angel. Nothing in life is black and white like that. But Hamas started this one. And Israel cannot live with an organization that kidnaps, rapes and beheads people on its border
Yes, then why don’t you go and live there for half a year to see how much you are going to like it. These tunnels were first built to smuggle normal goods in and out of Gaza, and they were the reaction of the restrictions imposed by Israel of their freedom of movement.
For this conflict to really end both sides need to do some concessions and most importantly Israel should grant some basic human rights and freedom and ensure that perpetrators of the new order would be equally persecuted by law enforcement. What I see right now is that Israel is building even more checkpoints in the West bank, approving the building of new neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem and granting impunity to violent settlers. arresting Palestinians and keeping them in prisons without effective sentence and even when they are put into court, they are tried in a military court and not civil. Relatives of Palestinian prisoners can’t even visit them and there are a lot of reports of prisoner officers exerting physical and psychological harassment of those prisoners.
So tell me honestly, if you were on the other side of the barricade, how would you feel? Would you tolerate being treated like cattle and still be happy?
And honestly speaking I don’t see any political will in Israel to change the current status quo? They don’t want to make any concessions or start treating those people decently. How many times in interviews did Israeli politicians show any will for a two-states solution? And mind you the overwhelming opinion of the international community is that the only viable solution leading to a long lasting peace is a two state solution base on equal treatment of people and mutual respect. And Netanyahu’s reply is what exactly? Arming settlers, building even more checkpoints to restrict their freedom of movement in the West bank, arresting even more Palestinians and talking of another military occupation of Gaza and building of another buffer zone from inside Gaza.
So explain to me how is this fair and do you think it would improve the prospects of long lasting peace in the region? It is almost like Likud and the far right parties are using the current conflict for even more polarising of the Israeli society and land grab.
I agree with your analysis of Israel. I don’t see much hope for change there, unfortunately and looks like this sentiment will only grow stronger from now on. However the discussion was around Hamas specifically. They don’t want to live in peace alongside Israel. They completely deny the concept of Israel and will not stop until the last Jew is driven out. Can’t justify that either
You can’t kill an idea, you can replace it with a better alternative, and Hamas is an idea, like an ideological movement that is summarising the general discontent of Palestinian population with the current status quo. Every human being wants to live in peace and prosperity. Politics and religion is usually dividing people.
My point is that this war even if it manages to kill a big chunk of the military wing of Hamas and destroy their weapons, won’t kill the idea and will do quite the opposite by strengthening the resolve of people to continue opposing Israel and support Hamas.
Funnily enough Hamas needs Likud and the other far right factions in the Israelian government to flourish and vice versa. They have formed a symbiotic relationship even though officially they are mortal enemies. But if Israel and Palestine manage to find a recipe for a long standing peace based on equal terms, then Likud and the other far right factions and the terrorist organisations in Palestine will lose a big chunk of their support.
Sadly, I don’t see this happening anytime soon as both parts are already too invested in the current bloodshed. And considering that Israel is a “democratic” country with a far superior military power one is logically expecting that they should be the initiator of a peace process that will try to mend the wounds from the current war. What I am currently seeing is zero interest from Israel to do something like this.
Unfortunately everything you said about israel is true, as an (expat) Israeli I see the current conflict only drives us further from any solution and more bloodshed in the future is almost certain.
Regarding Hamas, it’s a fundamentalist jihadistic group that will not stop until the complete annihilation of all the Jews, with that I’m certain as they are saying exactly that. However they can be overthrown, that is what this war is about. Who will replace them ? No idea. Might be even worse…
There are many good people on both ends that want to live in peace. Unfortunately the leadership is bad, driven by extremists and the politics are horrible (at least on Israel’s side, don’t know much about PA)
Ah yes, the same talking point repeated over and over again. Next time try to use your brain instead of repeating the same line:
Or are you trying to convince me that Gaza is a paradise on earth? Why do you think those tunnels exists at the first place? Have you heard of freedom of movement? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement. How would you feel if you are not allowed to leave 41sq. km, don’t have a single functioning airport, you can’t even use the territorial waters, because they are also controlled by Israel, and your whole economy is heavily restricted. But yes, continue repeating yourself that Israel is a spotless angel who don’t have anything to do with the events from the 7th of October.
Don’t forget filled with the constant sound of drones to the point people can’t sleep or study, a majority of their water isn’t drinkable, they don’t control their own trash, and they restricted the amount of calories into their to be the bare minimum at one point.
Not a paradise but not too bad of a prison either https://nitter.net/imshin/status/1733819052659740965?s=20
The tunnels are built to provide strategic advantage over Israeli military superiority. Also to smuggle equipment for rockets which Hamas has plenty of and uses them regularly. Ordinary Gazans do not get to use the tunnels to hide and stay alive. They are needed as human shields instead.
Israel is far from being a spotless angel. Nothing in life is black and white like that. But Hamas started this one. And Israel cannot live with an organization that kidnaps, rapes and beheads people on its border
Yes, then why don’t you go and live there for half a year to see how much you are going to like it. These tunnels were first built to smuggle normal goods in and out of Gaza, and they were the reaction of the restrictions imposed by Israel of their freedom of movement.
For this conflict to really end both sides need to do some concessions and most importantly Israel should grant some basic human rights and freedom and ensure that perpetrators of the new order would be equally persecuted by law enforcement. What I see right now is that Israel is building even more checkpoints in the West bank, approving the building of new neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem and granting impunity to violent settlers. arresting Palestinians and keeping them in prisons without effective sentence and even when they are put into court, they are tried in a military court and not civil. Relatives of Palestinian prisoners can’t even visit them and there are a lot of reports of prisoner officers exerting physical and psychological harassment of those prisoners.
So tell me honestly, if you were on the other side of the barricade, how would you feel? Would you tolerate being treated like cattle and still be happy?
And honestly speaking I don’t see any political will in Israel to change the current status quo? They don’t want to make any concessions or start treating those people decently. How many times in interviews did Israeli politicians show any will for a two-states solution? And mind you the overwhelming opinion of the international community is that the only viable solution leading to a long lasting peace is a two state solution base on equal treatment of people and mutual respect. And Netanyahu’s reply is what exactly? Arming settlers, building even more checkpoints to restrict their freedom of movement in the West bank, arresting even more Palestinians and talking of another military occupation of Gaza and building of another buffer zone from inside Gaza.
So explain to me how is this fair and do you think it would improve the prospects of long lasting peace in the region? It is almost like Likud and the far right parties are using the current conflict for even more polarising of the Israeli society and land grab.
I agree with your analysis of Israel. I don’t see much hope for change there, unfortunately and looks like this sentiment will only grow stronger from now on. However the discussion was around Hamas specifically. They don’t want to live in peace alongside Israel. They completely deny the concept of Israel and will not stop until the last Jew is driven out. Can’t justify that either
You can’t kill an idea, you can replace it with a better alternative, and Hamas is an idea, like an ideological movement that is summarising the general discontent of Palestinian population with the current status quo. Every human being wants to live in peace and prosperity. Politics and religion is usually dividing people.
My point is that this war even if it manages to kill a big chunk of the military wing of Hamas and destroy their weapons, won’t kill the idea and will do quite the opposite by strengthening the resolve of people to continue opposing Israel and support Hamas.
Funnily enough Hamas needs Likud and the other far right factions in the Israelian government to flourish and vice versa. They have formed a symbiotic relationship even though officially they are mortal enemies. But if Israel and Palestine manage to find a recipe for a long standing peace based on equal terms, then Likud and the other far right factions and the terrorist organisations in Palestine will lose a big chunk of their support.
Sadly, I don’t see this happening anytime soon as both parts are already too invested in the current bloodshed. And considering that Israel is a “democratic” country with a far superior military power one is logically expecting that they should be the initiator of a peace process that will try to mend the wounds from the current war. What I am currently seeing is zero interest from Israel to do something like this.
Unfortunately everything you said about israel is true, as an (expat) Israeli I see the current conflict only drives us further from any solution and more bloodshed in the future is almost certain.
Regarding Hamas, it’s a fundamentalist jihadistic group that will not stop until the complete annihilation of all the Jews, with that I’m certain as they are saying exactly that. However they can be overthrown, that is what this war is about. Who will replace them ? No idea. Might be even worse…
There are many good people on both ends that want to live in peace. Unfortunately the leadership is bad, driven by extremists and the politics are horrible (at least on Israel’s side, don’t know much about PA)