If you believe that women are closer to being property than to being full and equal partners in a relationship, you don’t want them being able to exit a marriage without a fight.
Some of these idiots actually say that a woman shouldn’t be able to divorce without the husband’s permission. Crazy and gross.
The irony being that spouse murder rates notably dropped after the majority of the US legalized no-fault divorces. If a woman can’t escape a toxic marriage legally, she’s more likely to just murder you instead (and before anyone jumps in to patronize, I realize how terrible it used to be for many women and we should fight against any toxic, regressive policies like this).
My understanding is murder dropped on both sides, but it was a bigger drop in the deaths of the wives. Women are more able to get away from abusive husbands with a no fault divorce - they don’t have to go to court and prove the abuse. Abusive relationships often escalate over time, and can end in death if the abused doesn’t get out.
I believe you’re right, it’s been awhile since I read an article that discussed the topic. Bottom line: Advocates of rescinding no fault divorces can shut the hell up and keep their draconian ideas to themselves.
Yeah, I wish they would, but they don’t. It’s the same people who want to abolish abortions and prevent kids from knowing about homosexuality. None of it is based on any actual data or problems, it’s all based on their particular cherry-picked interpretation of the bible.
And if they succeed they will have blood in their hands. Not that that ever bothered them before.
I have an amazing anecdote about a friend who was working hospice who had an ancient lady tell her about how she (the old lady) killed her first husband for being an abusive dick.
She laughed the whole time.
It was later proven true.
That’s NOT what being Pro Life means SOCIALIST! Who cares about PEOPLE when there’s FETUSES to worry about?
It’s so perfectly appropriate that that abusive piece of shit Steven Crowder opposes no-fault divorce. He’s just such a vivid example of the sort of emotionally stunted manchild who opposes it and of why they oppose it, and thus of why it has to continue to exist.
Let’s be real here. It’s not that conservatives, conservative men specifically, want to get rid of no-fault divorce. In Crowder’s case, his wife has pretty compelling evidence that Steven emotionally abused his wife.
Conservatives would use no fault divorce to separate from “mouthy” women in a heartbeat if the threat of it would keep them in line.
They hate that a law exists that can be used against them.
They believe they should not be bound by the law of a no fault divorce but would have zero problem using it if it served their interests.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Well that was hard to watch. Already didn’t like this dickhead but now I reeeally don’t like ‘im
If this was the “wifely duties” one, the dog needed some meds which a pregnant woman can’t touch. Affects the fetus. He wanted her to put on gloves so she could do it. What a POS. If that stuff could affect my kid I wouldn’t want it anywhere near my wife.
That is the gloves thing? I wondered.
Yeah, what a lazy selfish POS. Their first kid I’m guessing? He probably is the type to ‘not do diapers’ too.
Its too easy? Fuck you. I want to be able to text a number and boom my divorce is filed. Republicans once again proving their the party of piss babies and iron fists. Maybe if you all weren’t so completely revolting in your souls you’d find someone that wishes to intertwin with it.
Republicans as iron-fisted piss babies is perfect.
Technically if you don’t have any disputed assets or kids to traumatize, you can pretty much get divorced online these days. There a bunch of online legal services websites out there who will send you boilerplate to fill out and then file it for you for under $1000.
Yes. That’s how no-fault divorce works. The point is, they don’t want that at all, for anyone, regardless of assets or children. They want wives to be the property of men, unable to get a divorce.
Those services are scams. At least in my state, the court’s website includes a boilerplate form to fill out free of charge.
Having said that, even if there is no dispute, if you have sizable co-mingled assets/liabilities (such as a house and mortgage, effectively comingled retirement savings, etc), you should probably still get professional help even if you agree in principle how to divide them.
Because they are terrible people that need to hold someone hostage in order not to be single? Probably something along those lines…
I feel like most things conservatives want can easily be explained by their consistent desire to harm women.
Conservatives delight in the misery of the vulnerable. You can see it in the things they find funny, the sadistic movies they enjoy and their genuine happiness in killing animals.
Maybe just maybe the sanctity of the American family is as an abuse cycle in its most potent form.
And there is no fixing that.
And the besainted Kurt Vonnegut said, “A husband, a wife and some kids is not a family. It’s a terribly vulnerable survival unit."
These people who want to keep “traditional family values” alive don’t want you to use in-vitro fertilization methods either. Don’t believe me? Read this article from the Knights of Columbus. This is the mentality we’re up against.
They also don’t want to make the economic conditions happen that allowed for the ‘traditional family’, where there’s one bread winner. It’s just not possible in this day and age for the average worker to support a wife and kids.
Well of course not. If you can’t have kids, it’s because their god doesn’t want you to.
…yet erectile disfunction meds are A-OK to them.
As usual conservatives don’t think of the consequences of their actions. Marriage rates are already declining. Eliminating no-fault divorce won’t make people stay together. It will make them decide getting married isn’t worth it in the first place.
Hopefully this helps the “institution” of marriage just die off even sooner, at least as a government-recognized status. It should just be civil unions across the board is what’s officially recognized, let marriages just be a Church ceremony and take government out of it altogether.
Marriage predates any modern religion, and likely predates organized religion entirely. Marriage is a civil institution. Marriage belongs to all of us, not just churches, not just the religious. Don’t let them take it.
Without no-fault divorce, one party has to admit to some kind of “harm” to the other, like “emotional neglect” or some such thing. It was pretty common, when both people wanted to divorce, for them to agree to essentially lie to the court to meet that requirement. And then, there would often be a required separation period of a year or more before the divorce could be finalized.
That’s all in a relatively civil “at fault” divorce. If either party wants to be an ass about it, then it gets way uglier.
When my great-grandparents got a divorce, they had to get my great-grandfather’s sister-in-law to lie in a bed with him under the covers and take a photo of it to prove infidelity. What a ridiculous system.
I legitimately don’t understand why you would want to hold someone hostage if they don’t want to be with you. Ignore the whole human rights issue… Unless you are an actual sadistic sociopath why would you want to subject yourself to another person’s misery like that, instead of going out and seeking mutual happiness?
For some, women and children are things, not people.
My terrible grandfather was like that. Abusive to everyone in the household, stole my grandmother’s income, and when winter rolled around he’d disappear until spring to who knows where leaving my grandmother and kids to fend for themselves. He literally tried to kill one of my uncles just because he could (tried to run him over with a tractor).
Not just that, but marriage to them is a prize they won, not something they did as a partner. And once they won their prize, they can do anything they want with it.
Unless you are an actual sadistic sociopath
You answered your own question. To conservatives, a spouse is merely another piece along your way to the “traditional family”. And that is explicitly your (the royal you) way. How dare that piece have the audacity to remove itself from your carefully laid plans. Doesn’t it know you have a wholesome image to maintain? Though it’s nothing a little “discipline” won’t fix.
Free labor in the house (cook clean etc), sex (rape at that point), punching bag, etc.
Some of it stems from religious zealotry (marriage is sacred and permanent).
Some of it is a misguided attempt at rectify the ‘single parent’ problem, believing that two unhappy parents is better than one parent divorced.
Essentially if you make divorce harder, more couples will be forced to work through their disagreements and reconcile.
It’s not about holding someone hostage. A lot of breadwinners would let their spouse walk if they didn’t take half of the breadwinner’s savings with them.
The rest of it is all fluff…the core of this issue is money.
The core of the issue also can include child custody, but I agree with you in that money is also a huge core issue.
Some people don’t see happiness as valuable.
Some people only value the harm they inflict on others.
They don’t want to be divorced for being shitty people and shitty partners.
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Pretty much every conservative idea is stupid or evil. This is no exception.
Pretty muchevery conservative idea is stupid or evil. This is no exception.ftfy
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They want to trap you for life. Allowing them to be horrible people and not allowing you to leave.
I have no problem with no-fault divorce (on the contrary, it’s a great thing). What I do have a problem with is 50-50 split laws that create the possibility that assets will be automatically equally split in a divorce, which is stupid and enables gold-digging. I would think conservatives would be against that too, which I could actually support. This though…this is just abusive and motivated by either misogyny and/or Christian religious values (although I’m sure some other religions could get behind it too [hard stare at Islam]).
What I do have a problem with is 50-50 split laws that create the possibility that assets will be automatically equally split in a divorce, which is stupid and enables gold-digging.
I have never heard anyone complain about a 50-50 split laws.
You clearly have a strong opinion about it. If you’re willing to share, do you believe that “gold-digging” is such a prevalent problem that the default 50-50 split needs to change? What are you proposing as an alternative? If you’re worried about “gold-digging” how do prenuptial agreements not mitigate this already?
My mom slept around for 20+ years of marriage, was emotionally abusive to her kids, and never did much if it didn’t further her public image. From the outside she looked great, but now she is on the never talks to me again list. My dad was the primary breadwinner by a large margin, cooked dinner every night, coached multiple of our sports teams, taught us to drive, volunteered at our school several times per year, and was so calm I can only remember one time where he lost his temper. He basically raised us as a single father and never wanted to divorce because he was determined to break the cycle. He sounds fake when I type it out.
The settlement after two years of lawyering, and only one of the kids being not an adult at 17 years old, was ridiculous. He took on all of the debt, took care of all the kids, paid all 3 kids child support until we were 21, paid my mom alimony of over $2k, she took half the shit out of our house, and gave her a free basically new car. Oh and he paid for her apartment for a year. This was after talking the judge down for months.
We were firmly middle class, like $150k gross in the 2010’s when this played out. I had to pay for our groceries a few times because of this fucked up system. It basically fucks the good parent into the ground for a sense of equality.
It basically fucks the good parent into the ground for a sense of equality.
First, let me say that I feel for you and your father in trying to do what he felt was right and honorable.
50-50 split isn’t where one person takes all the debt, then the assets are split 50-50. What you’re describing sounds like your father would have benefited from 50-50 split. He clearly didn’t get half.
It was about 70/30 in my mom’s favor. The big problem with no fault is it massively favors the mom.
I don’t feel strongly either way here, but want to point out that something doesn’t need to be a big, prevalent problem before you advocate for change. If it’s a problem for someone, somewhere, and you can solve the problem without introducing new problems for others, that should be enough.
As for the 50-50 split, I intuitively think it would make sense to have some kind of clause regarding what each part brings in to a marriage. If one part brings in a house, while the other just got their first job, it doesn’t make sense to me that the default upon a divorce should be that they get equal parts of the house. Of course, implementing a good solution in practice can be anything but simple.
If one part brings in a house, while the other just got their first job, it doesn’t make sense to me that the default upon a divorce should be that they get equal parts of the house.
It already doesn’t work like that in most places in the USA. If the house is still in the name of the person that owned it to begin with, generally that person keeps the house after the divorce. Do some googling on “premartial assets”.
I’m not at risk of it, in case you’re wondering if I have a personal stake. But I’ve always found the notion of a person taking 50% of another’s accomplishments simply because they managed to get them to fall in love with them tantamount to rape. I have very strong opinions about rape too, by the way.
Prenuptial agreements are nice, but the truth of the matter is that 50/50 should not be the default and people shouldn’t have to take preliminary measures to protect themselves. It’s not about the prevalence of the problem; rape isn’t actually that prevalent if you look at the full scope of human sexual interaction. Nonetheless, that it occurs at all is abhorrent. That alone justifies action and legal protection. The alternatives are extrajudicial negotiation via lawyers and court judgments if that fails. Plenty of states have this system; only nine have 50/50 laws. Thankfully, it seems most people can see their stupidity. I’d rather see resources split equitably according to needs and what people deserve than a completely in-arbitrary split that’s sole purpose is to spare court time and resources.
And if you don’t think my comparison to rape apt, I can assure you I don’t mean to equate the two in every aspect, obviously. But it’s been said by many others that this is the principal way in which women take advantage of men, and I do consider it severely psychologically damaging, even if the outcomes aren’t the same (e.g. PTSD). Legally stealing a person’s earned income isn’t just about money; it’s a slice at their very life’s work, and that is about far lore than the material goods it’s associated with.
This seems kinda ignorant about how married families work. So much that I don’t even know where I’d begin setting things straight. My wife spent years not working, not advancing her career, not contributing to the financial bottom line further than doing all the work necessary to make the household function so that I could focus on my own career growth and money. Even now, I make twice what she does even though she is probably the more generally competent of us, because she effectively had no career growth for about fifteen years.
Once the kids from her first marriage were old enough she became a loan officer at a bank. That went out the window when we started having kids of our own and she had to start again from the bottom rung of the ladder in a whole different industry. You’re damn skippy she’s entitled to half my earnings if we get a divorce. I couldn’t have hired someone to do everything she’s done for half my salary. Plus it’s not like I’d want my kids living in poverty when they were staying with her.
I feel like in your head your are thinking some self-made millionaire tricked into marrying a high school dropout because the pussy is amazing and now she has a half million bucks and her vagina can retire. Maybe that happens but my story is way more common. Plus if the pussy is that good, who’s to say it isn’t worth $500k? Only Fans incomes suggests that certain pussy is definitely worth that.
My point is just think about what the woman risks and sacrifices before deciding 50/50 is unfair.
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Imagine wanting to get out of a bad situation and needing to prove to a court that it’s bad enough.
Court: “Not bad enough, you can’t leave.”
