• Sir_Simon_Spamalot@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Jokes aside, this kind of gatekeeping behavior is what gives Linux a bad name. Also, you don’t have to be a beginner to love Linux Mint.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    You don’t have to be a beginner to love Mint. I am very happy that they are putting more energy into the Debian edition. I’ve tried lots of other distros over the years, and I am just comfortable in Mint.

    • kirk782@discuss.tchncs.de
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      11 months ago

      It is a long term release based on Debian so that if Canonical goes down someday and Ubuntu falls, they will have a fallback base distro to remain on.

  • HiddenLayer5@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Out of the mainstream distros what might end up getting bought by Google or even Microsoft, Ubuntu seems to me like the most likely candidate.

    I mean, RedHat was once the even more likely candidate, but

      • Limit@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        I find Redhat annoying with how they lock down access to KB articles unless you have a subscription and certain "proprietary " things they do but I managed over 500 RHEL 7 and 8 servers at my previous job and I will say that their support is excellent, and RHEL is rock solid. Satellite server on the other hand, that thing is a steaming pile of garbage…

        • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Yeah Satellite was the worst thing about managing RHEL but it’s still leagues better than similar products for Windows. We basically just used Sat for licensing and as a local repo so it wasn’t too bad for that. We started using Ansible more just as I left my sysadmin career. Lots of rhel with rac and jboss.

  • JCreazy@midwest.social
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    11 months ago

    I was running Linux Mint until the other day when I found out Linux Mint Debian Edition existed so I installed that. I’m a recent Linux convert and I can safely say that Lemmy might have partially been the reason. I’ve been loving it so far.

  • sederx@programming.dev
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    11 months ago

    But new users don’t even know what snaps are. They don’t care. We care because we are crazy bastards

      • IHeartBadCode@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        I am so sorry this got so long. I’m absolutely horrible at brevity.

        Applications use things called libraries to provide particular functions rather than implement those functions themselves. So like “handle HTTP request” as an example, you can just use a HTTP library to handle it for you so you can focus on developing your application.

        As time progresses, libraries change and release new versions. Most of the time one version is compatible with the other. Sometimes, especially when there is a major version change, the two version are incompatible. If an application relied on that library and a major incompatible change was made, the application also needs to be changed for the new version of the library.

        A Linux distro usually selects the version of each library that they are going to ship with their release and maintain it via updates. However, your distro provider and some neat program you might use are usually two different people. So the neat program you use might have change their application to be compatible with a library that might not make it into your distro until next release.

        At that point you have one of two options. Wait until your distro provides the updated library or the go it alone route of you updating your own library (which libraries can depend on other libraries, which means you could be opening a whole Pandora’s box here). The go it alone route also means that you have to turn off your distro’s updates because they’ll just overwrite everything you’ve done library wise.

        This is where snaps, flatpaks, and appimages come into play. In a very basic sense, they provide a means for a program to include all the libraries it’ll need to run, without those libraries conflicting with your current setup from the distro. You might hear them as “containerized programs”, however, they’re not exactly the Docker style “container”, but from an isolating perspective, that’s mostly correct. So your neat application that relies on the newest libraries, they can be put into a snap, flatpak, or appimage and you can run that program with those new libraries no need for your distro to provide them or for you to go it alone.

        I won’t bore you on the technical difference between the formats, but just mostly focus on what I usually hear is the objectionable issue with snaps. Snaps is a format that is developed by Canonical. All of these formats have a means of distribution, that is how do you get the program to install and how it is updated. Because you know, getting regular updates of your program is still really important. With snaps, Canonical uses a cryptographic signature to indicate that the distribution of the program has come from their “Snaps Store”. And that’s the main issue folks have taken with snaps.

        So unlike the other kinds of formats, snaps are only really useful when they are acquired from the Canonical Snaps Store. You can bypass the checking of the cryptographic signature via the command line, but Ubuntu will not automatically check for updates on software installed via that method, you must check for updates manually. In contrast, anyone can build and maintain their own flatpak “store” or central repository. Only Canonical can distribute snaps and provide all of the nice features of distribution like automatic updates.

        So that’s the main gripe, there’s technical issues as well between the formats which I won’t get into. But the main high level argument is the conflicting ideas of “open and free to all” that is usually associated with the Linux group (and FOSS [Free and open-source software] in general) and the “only Canonical can distribute” that comes with snaps. So as @sederx indicated, if that’s not an argument that resonates with you, the debate is pretty moot.

        There’s some user level difference like some snaps can run a bit slower than a native program, but Canonical has updated things with snaps to address some of that. Flatpak sandboxing can make it difficult to access files on your system, but flatpak permissions can be edited with things like Flatseal. Etc. It’s what I would file into the “papercut” box of problems. But for some, those papercuts matter and ultimately turn people off from the whole Linux thing. So there’s arguments that come from that as well, but that’s so universal “just different in how the papercut happens” that I just file that as a debate between container and native applications, rather a debate about formats.

        • COASTER1921@lemmy.ml
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          11 months ago

          My first introduction to them was “hey why does startup take so long now? This machine used to be so much faster.” and realizing it was snapd that was eating up the time. It’s also not exactly efficient at using storage compared to native installs of dependencies.

          For a desktop these may not be noticable but for low power embedded systems it’s a nightmare. It should be an option but really isn’t ready to be default. And when appimages are already a thing that work well I don’t really see the point.

          • DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca
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            11 months ago

            Take that person’s post, comparing it to cooking.

            Sometimes you use a Library pre-made sauce or spice blend as part of a recipe, so you don’t need to waste time remaking something that is commonly used.

            Every so often, a company will tweak the recipe for the things you are using, but it still basically tastes the same. Sometimes they just decide that now it’s salty instead of sweet, so it would complete ruin the dish you would like to make.

            The recipe you are using assumes you live in Australia where the new version of the sauce/spice blend is more common, but where you live still only sells the old version.

            So now you can either wait for the store to sell the new sauce/spice blend, import it from Australia, or try to make it yourself. But you might have another recipe that still needs/uses the old sauce/spice blend. Needing to have both can lead to issues where you use the wrong one, ruining the food you are trying to make.

            This is where snaps, flatpaks, and appimages those dish-in-a-box kits come into play. They’ll have the correct version of the spices/sauces you want, so it doesn’t really matter which version you have in your kitchen.

            Snaps branded dish-in-a-box kits are developed by Canonical, and they can be kinda weird. You need to check for updates if you need to re-buy them manually, and you can only get them from the “Snaps Store”. Other dish-in-a-box kits allow you to get them from whichever store you want, and will automatically re-order when needed.

            And that’s the main issue folks have taken with snaps. If you have 50+ programs are making a meal with 50+ dishes, and you need to constantly check if you need to rebuy them one by one, it gets old quickly.


            Also, Snaps takes up a lot of room, and generally just kinda suck compared to installing things normally or through flatpack.

    • fraydabson@sopuli.xyz
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      11 months ago

      The problem is they don’t care until it becomes an issue which by then becomes harder to fix. I also just really hate snap lol

    • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      I think they would care if they knew the benefits of not having snaps.

      There’s little to no advantage in having them, so why have them?

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Because every app gives it’s own installer and annoying “Please update!” popup

  • Molten_Moron@lemmings.world
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    11 months ago

    I recently started using Mint after years on Debian.

    I may be weird here, but it has quickly become my favorite distro.

    It’s snappy and super user-friendly, plus it’s been de-Ubuntu-d. Out of the box Flatpak support is just nice to have, and Cinnamon is a sweet de.

    • digger@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      I’ve done my fair share of distro hopping. Mint is the distribution that I have to do the least amount of configuring starting from a clean install.

      • Fungah@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        It’s the most stable distro I’ve used so far. Manjaro just seems like it’s a ticking time bomb just waiting for borked o’clock to come. I couldn’t get Nvidia drivers working on fedorat all. Ubuntu was just slow as ass. I don’t know why. But it was just fucked from junk street. I’ve given it a go a few times. Just slow wet ass. Kali is snappy and clean but not meant to be a daily driver. Not would I use it as one.

        Mint works. It’s relatively snappy. I like the gui. It’s customizabe.

  • BlackPit@feddit.ch
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    11 months ago

    I’ve tested over 40 Linux distributions over a long span of time, but I’ve never tried Mint. The reason being that all three times I’ve read something nice that inspired me to try it again the download hashes don’t match, and we find out their servers were compromised. How’s that going?

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      In 5+ years of OSS, only once have I even heard of hashes not matching and a build server being compromised, and it was fixed within 30 minutes. It was also a very big deal.

      Basically, what you’re saying and what a quick search on Google shows seems to suggest user error.

      • BlackPit@feddit.ch
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        11 months ago

        Lol, well there’s no way I can “prove” it not having taken screenshots and archived them. It’s been well over five years since the last time. I’ll save you the humble boast, but no user error here regarding verifying ISOs.

    • whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      wasn’t it stopped? was using it around 2012 but thought they stopped maintening it.

      Liked it because there was no need for version upgrade

      • digger@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        I’m running the most recent version, based on Bookworm, as my daily driver.

      • palordrolap@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        LMDE6 came out within the last couple of months. It’s based on Debian 12 which, at time of writing, is less than 6 months old.

        Upgrading is still wise every couple of years because the base Debian distro also reaches EOL, but yes, rolling updates occur constantly in the meantime. Provided the system owner allows them to anyway.

  • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    All the talk of Mint lately. Looks like my fifteen-year Ubuntu streak may be coming to an end. Will I, decidedly not a power-user just an Internet browser, occasional game player, Csound programmer, Libreoffice user notice a difference? Is Mint better at printing? That’s the only real problem I’ve had with Ubuntu over the years.

    • Johanno@feddit.de
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      11 months ago

      In my experience Linux is better at printing than windows. Especially debian based distros.

      However you can just Google your printer and see if there are issues.

      Edit: can’t read. I don’t know if there will be any change on printing since mint really just removes snap and Ubuntu stuff and adds flatpak and a few smaller details.

      • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        It was weird. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS printed perfectly. First try, every time. Barring printer issues not related to the OS anyway. Then, 20.04 dropped, and I couldn’t print anything. For two years, I had to move files to the Mac on the front desk to print at work because it refused to print anything. Same printer. I tried a few fixes people had posted, but none worked for me, and most fixes were for HP printers and mine is an Epson, which no one reported any problems with.

        Now, with 22.04, I get intermittent printing. It works more often than not, but I’d estimate my print jobs get randomly canceled about 30% of the time. Which is annoying, but not deal-breaking since I usually just push it through again, and it works. To be fair, it might be because of wireless printing, but I doubt it since like I said, 18.04 worked flawlessly with the exact same setup. I might just try out Mint sometime and see if it makes a difference.

          • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            That sounds like a lot of trouble and potential trouble for people who use the printer who don’t have the trouble I do. I can live with the failure rate. It happens quickly, and I can just print again. If Mint fixes it, that’s great!