What zero political understanding does to mf’er. Russia only reoriented towards China after its attempts joining the west were brutally rebuffed.
Russia really did join China as a last resort.
Likely didn’t want the risk of Russians looking too closely at China and triggering too many fond memories. China owes the people in ex-Soviet countries for the leg up. It was never a perfect relationship and things went sour before it could blossom. But the Soviets did help the Chinese and we’re far enough in the future that mistakes can be overlooked in favour of focusing on the sentiment.
And now? Russian capitalists will try to avoid it. But one option is a relatively peaceful transition back to socialism for Russia. The longer Russia gets closer to China, the more likely this becomes as Russians see that (a) it’s needed for self preservation and (b) the Chinese have resolved many of the problems that weakened the USSR. Meaning it’s both necessary and viable. Due to the CPC’s historic debt and the general internationalism of socialists, it probably won’t be unhappy to facilitate any movement towards socialism in Russia.
If these are the conditions that lead to the Russian Federation going socialist, I welcome it. Not like my opinion matters.
Putin literally asked for Russia to join NATO, more than once, and was rejected
You could’ve joined the west as an equal partner.
…Hey, remember Yeltsin?
The unpleasant reality is, Russians, like the Chinese, have never, in all their long history, existed without authoritarian rule. Their people are culturally inured to it. They actively seek it. They’re broken, as a society, and only dissolving their society will cure them.
The libs are not ok.
The unpleasant reality is
Russians, like the ChineseAmericans have never, in all their long history, existed without authoritarian rule. They are culturally inured to it. They actively seek it. They’re broken, as a society, and only dissolving their society will cure them.After 9 Thermidor II, they never were again.
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Wow. Unfunny and racist.
The latter implies the former
And homophobic for extra shittiness
The ultimate trifecta
LMAO I love how the new cope is going to be that Russia is being colonized by China. It’s a pretty funny mask off moment since it’s rooted in racism and the idea that Russia should obviously prefer to bend over for the western world order. It’s also pure projection since westies can’t even conceive of two countries having a mutually beneficial relationship where nobody gets exploited.
This last bit comes up in way too many of my conversations. Even ostensibly anti-imperialist decolonial types will throw in the idea that China is can only be acting in Africa because they are benefitting from it, so it isn’t a positive development. Even the fact that African partners are getting genuinely important things out of these arrangements doesn’t make the material difference between Chinese diplomacy and imperial extraction clear.
Actual context in the original scene fits this scenario since Mike is putting the blame on Waltuh while this is what actually happened:
In the seconds after this meme, Walter(Russia) proceeds to shoot and kill Mike(NATO).
I don’t think the Libs thought this one through…
Also the Soviet Union was overjoyed at the thought of a Post-War continuation of the Allies, and because the fact that the entire West German leadership were Nazi’s, they readily applied for NATO membership, in fact they were one of the first countries to do so. They thought they could avoid hostilities with the US, and prevent an arms race or possible WW3. When they were rejected, they somberly realized what was going on and quickly organized the Warsaw Pact.
The Soviets also offered on two separate occasions to reunify Germany and establish it as a neutral country outside either spheres of influence. This would include the withdrawal of all Soviet, American, French, and British assets and forces. This was soundly rejected.
It’s sad lemmy has become a place for blatant reactionary propaganda. Who controls lemmy?
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So we can’t stop these posts?
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Well that sucks. At this rate, their front page will become a racist far-right fest. We’ve seen this happen countless times on reddit.
It’s one of the major pros and cons of Lemmy; will be interesting to watch how each instance changes
This meme only works if you assume that the west is benevolent and their “support” helps other nations, and that Russia never actively engaged with them diplomatically, and that China has some secret plan to control Russia or something.
I guess when you’re a lib, your head is stuck so far up your own ass that you can’t actually see the world for what it is so a meme like this would make sense to them.
Obviously 3 layers of interdependent conspiracy theories > reality
Holy shit this is so ahistorical it hurts.
Russia literally tried lmao.
Liberals and being historically illiterate. Name a more common duo.
It endlessly amazes me how stupid libs are. You have economist Jeffrey Sachs the architect of the failed shock therapy who was front row for the post USSR Russia on what must be hundreds of interviews in the past two years now explaining in plain words that the US never ever once intended for Russia to be an equal or even to join NATO.
The opposite seems more truthful : the n.a.t.o. and e.u. were given every chances to welcome Russia, but they immediately took steps to establish their hegemony(, including the bombing of Yugoslavia, and the whole Middle-East), before “protecting protesters” in Lybia V.Putin already knew that we were the biggest liars on Earth, he saw what was hidden behind our lies and opposed Dmitry Medvedev(, almost every article from 2011 says that it was rare for him), who was ready to believe us one more time(, and quickly regretted his trust).
We(sterners) had more than one chance to be united in diversity, we still have this possibility now, instead we’re opposing everyone who doesn’t conform to our “values”. If we(sterners)'re not stopped then neo-colonialism won’t end and any country judged too diverse will be forced to conform. Also, Russia is considered too large/powerful and hence too difficult to control, thus a potential threat to western hegemony/“enforced peace”, allowing western hegemony may imply a smaller and/or less powerful Russia.
There’s more details on everything that Russia(, and even the u.s.s.r. before,) did in order to unite with the west, but we’re so certain of our moral&economic&military&… superiority that we won’t agree to any concession.
It’s a badly written comment, there’s only two arguments and i’d have to search in my computer folders for any sources i may have(, i remember that in the first years after Yeltsin resigned, V.Putin took many measures to unite with the west, and obtained such things as the NATO-Russia Council). I still think that there’s a lot of truth in writing that Russia had&‘will have’ to abandon its diversity in order to have a hope of uniting with the west(, in the sense of not being unfairly attacked by our politicians&medias since they’re probably too big to be integrated into the e.u. anyway, they could join n.a.t.o. but they would have to agree with our goal for hegemony and apparently prefer to suffer than being immoral).Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm#:~:text=The background was that President,condition for not invade Ukraine
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
Yeah, totally, they did what they could for n.a.t.o. to publicly acknowledge three times their demand from October 2021 to January 2022 but were ignored if i’m only relying on my memories. And they threatened Ukraine in the beginning of 2021 by amassing their troops at their borders but then retreated, so it wasn’t some kind of unprovoked invasion coming from nowhere, our heads of state were clearly aware of the russian demands but lied to their population as usual(, because we’re too stupid to be told the truth or sthg).
I’d have to find the sources here as well, but Ukraine already wrote in its constitution that joining the n.a.t.o. was a national priority, and as usual we’ll have to thank Eastern Galicia for that(, so it’s not a russian illusion about some imaginary threat, they possibly waited for V.Putin to step down before acting), and apparently european “partners” were much less insistant on Ukraine’s admission than americans(, confirmed in facts but i still kinda doubt it), the most famous warning about n.a.t.o. expansion dated back from the Munich security conference in 2007, but it can be found since 1991.
Goes to show how unbiased you are, leaving out the very next paragraph:
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
An alliance to defend against Russia refusing to demilitarize the countries closest to Russia, while Russia is actively preparing to invade? The shock. The horror.
You mean the alliance that promised not to expand one inch to the east and then continued to break that promise for decades. Maybe kindly fuck off?
Oh I am sorry. Does it upset you that formerly soviet vassals decided they want to join a defensive alliance against their former oppressor? To be protected from Russia’s agression, which Pootin, in his infinite wisdom, proved entirely justified? Russia could have proven that NATO is a relic of the past and not needed anymore. Pootin proved the exact opposite.
No, what upsets me is that US colonized former soviet republics and installed puppet regimes that don’t represent the interests of the people. NATO could’ve been disbanded back in the 90s because there was no threat from Russia to anyone at the time. Instead, NATO chose to invade and destroy countries for decades. And now imbeciles such as yourself claim it’s defensive alliance. You are piece of human garbage, and you deserve everything that’s coming to you.
As a person in the Imperial Core, I still can’t comprehend how backwards the logic is here that most Americans would read this meme and think it’s grounded in reality. Even having been the kind of guy who would believe it once, I still don’t understand.
I think it’s just racist indoctrination to believe Russians are evil.
The West removed Russia from being its ally against China, in the 90s to 2000s, the mistake is that they wanted it weak and submissive to American interests equal to QUE, the USA does not want similars but vassals
