So, would you kill every single Israeli civilian if they were unable to leave Israel? Because that’s what Hamas and Hezbollah want to do, with the assistance of Iran.
And? Israel has been killing, starving, and holding Palestinians without charge for decades. Oh and we’ve found out there’s rape in there too. Because of course there is.
If you want to trot out crimes we’re going to be here all night. Only one side has the power to step back and stop the cycle of violence. But it’s working for Israel, they’re slowly assimilating Palestine.
It’s been a long and bloody conflict since Israel’s inception. But does any of this justify Hamas and Hezbollah killing/kidnapping Israeli civilians? Hamas wasn’t forced to do October 7th, or to fire off over 10,000 rockets since then. Hezbollah wasn’t forced to fire off rockets in solidarity with them. Neither of those things is stopping the cycle of violence. To suggest the onus is entirely on Israel is absolving these two literal terrorist groups of their responsibilities.
Destroying Israel refers to the end of the Settler Colonialist Regime, which includes the Apartheid and Occupations. And instead a Regime Change in Palestine that has equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians. It does not refer to the ethnic cleansing of all Israelis, that kind of mentality of ‘Transfer’ is central to Zionism, not Anti-zionism.
Did you really just link a verse from the Quran and attribute that to the entirety of Hamas and Hezbollah simply because they are Muslim? That is an incredibly racist thing to do.
I’m going to be charitable and assume you mean to reference the 1988 Charter of Hamas, which while unreasonable for wanting Sharia Law and belief in the antisemitic conspiracy theory of the Elder Protocols of Zion, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People.
Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990’s, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.
Any kind of conflation of Judaism and Zionism needs to be called out, regardless of who says it. That includes any members of Hamas, any other resistance group, or any Israelis who conflate them, intentional or not.
Trying to attribute a quote like that to an entire people, as an attempt to contextualize the Settler Colonialist violence of Israel towards Palestinians, is a terrible and disingenuous thing to do. It’s attempting to imply that Palestinians are fighting back out of some inherent Antisemitism, which is completely untrue, instead of fighting back against ethnic cleansing for their livelyhood.
It’s important to recognize where this conflation is coming from. Israel intentionally does this conflation to deflect any criticism as simply antisemitism, which comes at the expense of a rise of genuine antisemitism as they then point to the actions of Israel as representing all Jewish people. Which is obviously untrue. When the IDF destroys your house and kills your family, and then says it’s in the name of all Jewish people, it becomes harder for those people to got their house destroyed to make that distinction between Judaism and Zionism. So it is equally important to condemn the conflation and understand the context behind it.
Yes, I attributed that verse to Hamas, because Hamas believed in it when they put it in their charter. Evidently, they still hate Jews enough to kill their civilians throughout that time period. Regardless of their reforms, October 7th still happened, as have numerous other killings of Israeli civilians. That’s pretty clear evidence Hamas militants still hold the belief. Do all Muslims believe Jews should be killed this way? No, and I doubt even a majority of them want that. But Hamas encoded it into their charter. That’s indisputable history.
Not only does it explicitly reference that the issue is Zionism in the 1988 charter,
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.
You’re made-up idea that it’s about Jews and not Zionism also goes against the actions and remarks of the founder of Hamas, as well as the clarification in the 2017 charter.
Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace and targeted civilians.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.')
page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
Page 402
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.
You’re made-up idea that it’s about Jews and not Zionism also goes against the actions and remarks of the founder of Hamas
They’re the ones that included a quote encouraging the killing of Jews - not Zionists - in the original charter. They’re also the ones who went on to commit, among numerous other attacks, October 7th. Do you not see the connection here? If there were any reforms, they’ve obviously failed.
At least two analyses have concluded that Hamas only wants ceasefires as a means to destroying Israel in the long term. An organization that genuinely wants a two-state solution doesn’t provoke its neighbors by killing over a thousand people and taking over 200 hostages.
So, would you kill every single Israeli civilian if they were unable to leave Israel? Because that’s what Hamas and Hezbollah want to do, with the assistance of Iran.
There you go again. Assuming facts not in evidence.
Per the Wilson Center, “Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant interpretations of Islam to spearhead a Sunni extremist movement committed to destroying Israel.”
Also according to them, Hezbollah’s leader Nasrallah has also repeatedly vowed to destroy Israel.
Would you like to dispute these statements?
Uh yeah, considering Nasrullah is fucking dead. And you’re reaching 37 years back for statements that have long since been updated.
Hamas moderated in the 2000’s and changed their charter in 2018.
But you just keep on trucking with the bad faith statements. Your own link points this out if you read more than 5 sentences.
Apparently Hamas didn’t moderate themselves enough to not kill 1,200 people on October 7th.
Because Israel showed them they didn’t get anything for moderation. Just more suffering.
But apparently they thought raping Jews would help. Look where that attack landed them.
And? Israel has been killing, starving, and holding Palestinians without charge for decades. Oh and we’ve found out there’s rape in there too. Because of course there is.
If you want to trot out crimes we’re going to be here all night. Only one side has the power to step back and stop the cycle of violence. But it’s working for Israel, they’re slowly assimilating Palestine.
It’s been a long and bloody conflict since Israel’s inception. But does any of this justify Hamas and Hezbollah killing/kidnapping Israeli civilians? Hamas wasn’t forced to do October 7th, or to fire off over 10,000 rockets since then. Hezbollah wasn’t forced to fire off rockets in solidarity with them. Neither of those things is stopping the cycle of violence. To suggest the onus is entirely on Israel is absolving these two literal terrorist groups of their responsibilities.
Destroying Israel refers to the end of the Settler Colonialist Regime, which includes the Apartheid and Occupations. And instead a Regime Change in Palestine that has equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians. It does not refer to the ethnic cleansing of all Israelis, that kind of mentality of ‘Transfer’ is central to Zionism, not Anti-zionism.
The Hadiths describe a future in which the war against the Jews - not Israel - is so successful that a tree/rock points out a Jew and asks for his death.
Did you really just link a verse from the Quran and attribute that to the entirety of Hamas and Hezbollah simply because they are Muslim? That is an incredibly racist thing to do.
I’m going to be charitable and assume you mean to reference the 1988 Charter of Hamas, which while unreasonable for wanting Sharia Law and belief in the antisemitic conspiracy theory of the Elder Protocols of Zion, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People.
Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990’s, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.
Any kind of conflation of Judaism and Zionism needs to be called out, regardless of who says it. That includes any members of Hamas, any other resistance group, or any Israelis who conflate them, intentional or not.
Trying to attribute a quote like that to an entire people, as an attempt to contextualize the Settler Colonialist violence of Israel towards Palestinians, is a terrible and disingenuous thing to do. It’s attempting to imply that Palestinians are fighting back out of some inherent Antisemitism, which is completely untrue, instead of fighting back against ethnic cleansing for their livelyhood.
It’s important to recognize where this conflation is coming from. Israel intentionally does this conflation to deflect any criticism as simply antisemitism, which comes at the expense of a rise of genuine antisemitism as they then point to the actions of Israel as representing all Jewish people. Which is obviously untrue. When the IDF destroys your house and kills your family, and then says it’s in the name of all Jewish people, it becomes harder for those people to got their house destroyed to make that distinction between Judaism and Zionism. So it is equally important to condemn the conflation and understand the context behind it.
Yes, I attributed that verse to Hamas, because Hamas believed in it when they put it in their charter. Evidently, they still hate Jews enough to kill their civilians throughout that time period. Regardless of their reforms, October 7th still happened, as have numerous other killings of Israeli civilians. That’s pretty clear evidence Hamas militants still hold the belief. Do all Muslims believe Jews should be killed this way? No, and I doubt even a majority of them want that. But Hamas encoded it into their charter. That’s indisputable history.
Not only does it explicitly reference that the issue is Zionism in the 1988 charter,
You’re made-up idea that it’s about Jews and not Zionism also goes against the actions and remarks of the founder of Hamas, as well as the clarification in the 2017 charter.
Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace and targeted civilians.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Page 402
The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
They’re the ones that included a quote encouraging the killing of Jews - not Zionists - in the original charter. They’re also the ones who went on to commit, among numerous other attacks, October 7th. Do you not see the connection here? If there were any reforms, they’ve obviously failed.
Even today, Hamas is misusing humanitarian aid, and they’ve been known to do this for years.
At least two analyses have concluded that Hamas only wants ceasefires as a means to destroying Israel in the long term. An organization that genuinely wants a two-state solution doesn’t provoke its neighbors by killing over a thousand people and taking over 200 hostages.