Dude, this has been a traditional way for parents to embarrass their adult children in front of their partner for decades. My wife has seen my naked baby pictures without my parents even showing them to her. And I’ve seen hers. What’s the big deal? It’s not like either of us found them sexy.
They’re baby pictures. We’re not talking about something erotic here. Naked babies are not some sort of scandalous thing. In most cultures, they’re normal.
We’re not talking about social media, we’re talking about the significant other of my child. Or even relatives. I didn’t get my daughter’s permission to take her photo when she was a baby, so I shouldn’t have sent a photo to my father on the other side of the country based on this reasoning.
used to torture children in front of their serious romantic partners brought home for the first time.
Things were different when we were kids. It’s a fucked up thing to psychologically abuse your (presumably) teenage kids like that and objectively people know that. (Your daughters) consent in the subject is the only thing that matters. The only reason anyone is giving you a pass is because you’re FlyingSquid, but maybe leave those pictures in the closet until closer to the wedding.
Based on that reasoning, I should not show anyone any photo of my child until they were old enough to consent to them being taken.
based on that reasoning i shouldnt expose my child to the visual perception of other people who exist outside in the chance that one of them non consensually perceives my child.
You wouldn’t expose your child naked in public, why would you expose them naked on picture?
I’m not embarrassed by my body and if that’s what her partner really wants to see, I don’t care.
that’s great, the implication there is that you’re still showing it to other people, and if we’re talking family and friends, i don’t know many people that would want that.
i mean, most people use bathrooms. Considering that human waste is literally a biohazard, i feel like doing anything else would be quite rude at best, and arguably a crime at worst.
Taking photos of naked children isn’t, and shouldn’t, be normal in any culture I’m familiar with, and you definitely shouldn’t be showing them to anyone.
That’s a tradition that ended a long time ago. I’m talking about traditions that are ongoing. Also traditions that, despite someone else’s claim, probably don’t cause any psychological harm, at least most of the time.
I think you may be surprised and hopefully disturbed by this UNICEF article.
Despite a steady decline in this harmful practice over the past decade, child marriage remains widespread, with approximately one in five girls married in childhood across the globe. Today, multiple crises – including conflict, climate shocks and the ongoing fallout from COVID-19 – are threatening to reverse progress towards eliminating this human rights violation. The United Nations Sustainable Development Goals call for global action to end child marriage by 2030.
So no, it was not “a long time ago.” It’s “hopefully by 2030.”
Also traditions that, despite someone else’s claim, probably don’t cause any psychological harm, at least most of the time.
Oh, so as long as you don’t believe the person and can therefore invalidate their feelings without guilt, and it only psychologically hurts “some” people who you I suppose arbitrarily believe over the ones you don’t, it’s fine?
Also traditions that, despite someone else’s claim, probably don’t cause any psychological harm, at least most of the time.
Actually you asked for nothing, you made a whole lot of assumptions instead. And
evidence that it hurts anyone
Here again you invalidate the feelings of those telling you with their own words that they don’t like it. The evidence they don’t like it is them telling you they don’t like it, you don’t need a scientific paper to corroborate that some people find it objectionable, you just dismiss them because you want to partake in the behavior they find objectionable.
I absolutely asked for evidence. I just didn’t ask you for evidence. Weird that you apparently read through my comments and didn’t see that.
And not one person has told me that they were personally hurt by this happening to them. They have just said that it is wrong.
You show me the person in this thread who said it caused them pain. I can’t invalidate feelings that people don’t have. Someone not liking something has nothing to do with whether or not that thing causes trauma or any sort of psychological damage to anyone unless it caused them that damage.
And now I am asking you for evidence. Please quote the person that was hurt by their parents doing this.
You do understand that to cultures where this isnt the norm, it sounds ridiculous to show naked pictures of your child when they were an infant to, well anyone?
It being a tradition has no bearing on it being awful or not. Circumcision is a tradition.
I’m sure you can find a more modern way to embarrass your child without resorting to CP?
I personally have no use for pictures of baby genitals, but you really do huh? It even makes you upset we want to take away your baby genital pictures huh?
Is this some perverse form of individualism?
Edit: if you took a picture of you cleaning your daughters vagina out, and showed someone, yes that would be child porn and child abuse.
Again- they don’t come out of the womb with clothes on. Are parents not supposed to take a picture of their newly-born child or should they put a fig leaf on them?
I’ve asked several times- if this is child pornography, find me an example of someone getting in legal trouble for having a naked photo of their own baby on their phone. One person.
Were you even in the room with your newborns? Both of mine were moved to a table, cleaned up, and swaddled. I would have had to literally interrupt them to take a genital picture of them.
But I guess where you live, they pause first and ask if you want a full naked body shot? Cool tradition, I know you love those.
I’m sure noone has been in trouble for ONLY having their naked child’s pictures on their phone, but I’m sure those pictures have ended up in CP collections. I’m sure you have perfect opsec though so its fine.
Legality as side, since its not the law preventing me from abusing children anyways, I’m arguing that its morally wrong. Plenty of immoral actions are legal from my perspective.
Why does your perspective need baby genitals to be featured again?
No one paused anything. My wife gave my mother-in-law a camera and she took a picture because my wife asked her to. Then we sent that picture to my father and my mother who was on a layover in an airport.
I assume no one masturbated to it.
And who is featuring them? Certainly not me. Have I shown them to you? No. And i wouldn’t.
And you can say, for certain, that noone has ever seen that photo without your permission? I guess you might have me here if its a physical photo locked in a safe somewhere.
Edit: although these had to printed at a business, where anyone working could have copied them
Seeing someone naked as an adult isn’t the same thing as seeing them naked as a minor.
You do see that, right?
Dude, this has been a traditional way for parents to embarrass their adult children in front of their partner for decades. My wife has seen my naked baby pictures without my parents even showing them to her. And I’ve seen hers. What’s the big deal? It’s not like either of us found them sexy.
Chopping part of your child’s dick off has also been traditional for decades, that’s a very poor justification for that behaviour.
I agree
Are you really comparing showing your child’s long-term partner their naked baby pictures with circumcision?
My point is “we’ve always done it like that” isn’t really a justification.
They are challenging the logic, is this really a confusing idea to you?
They are challenging the logic, is this really a confusing idea to you?
it’s still weird (source, i have parents), at least ask your daughter for consent first.
I’d consider it to be a breach of my privacy otherwise.
They’re baby pictures. We’re not talking about something erotic here. Naked babies are not some sort of scandalous thing. In most cultures, they’re normal.
i didn’t take them and i didn’t consent to them existing either. Neither did i consent to them being shown to anybody.
Naked humans are also normal, yet we still wear clothes. babies included, weirdly enough.
At what point does “naked baby photos” turn to “naked children photos” is my question.
how about this. You can have your naked baby photos, you just also have to be in the photo and naked as well.
Based on that reasoning, I should not show anyone any photo of my child until they were old enough to consent to them being taken.
I’m not embarrassed by my body and if that’s what her partner really wants to see, I don’t care.
This is actually solid advice, especially as far as social media is concerned.
We’re not talking about social media, we’re talking about the significant other of my child. Or even relatives. I didn’t get my daughter’s permission to take her photo when she was a baby, so I shouldn’t have sent a photo to my father on the other side of the country based on this reasoning.
You’re (wisely) backpeddling now but you said:
Things were different when we were kids. It’s a fucked up thing to psychologically abuse your (presumably) teenage kids like that and objectively people know that. (Your daughters) consent in the subject is the only thing that matters. The only reason anyone is giving you a pass is because you’re FlyingSquid, but maybe leave those pictures in the closet until closer to the wedding.
based on that reasoning i shouldnt expose my child to the visual perception of other people who exist outside in the chance that one of them non consensually perceives my child.
You wouldn’t expose your child naked in public, why would you expose them naked on picture?
that’s great, the implication there is that you’re still showing it to other people, and if we’re talking family and friends, i don’t know many people that would want that.
How exactly do you think someone changes a diaper at a park?
i mean, most people use bathrooms. Considering that human waste is literally a biohazard, i feel like doing anything else would be quite rude at best, and arguably a crime at worst.
Taking photos of naked children isn’t, and shouldn’t, be normal in any culture I’m familiar with, and you definitely shouldn’t be showing them to anyone.
Well you should get familiar with Finnish culture and then start berating the Finnish guy who chimed in and said it was totally normal.
You know what an immoral, shithole country Finland is though.
The Finns regularly take naked photos of their children? Sure buddy.
It’s not my fault that you reply to all of my comments and don’t bother reading other people’s. It’s right there for you to read.
When are you going to contact lemmy.world admin to have me reported to the authorities for child abuse and the possession of child pornography?
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT CONSENT IS
YOU LEARN IT AT SCHOOL, ITS VERY IMPORTANT
you really need to chill out
Removed by mod
People or the significant other of my child?
Tbf child marriage is also traditional, Muhammed had a 9yo bride (it’s “ok,” he didn’t have sex with her until she was 11.)
Defending things based solely on tradition can get pretty weird sometimes.
That’s a tradition that ended a long time ago. I’m talking about traditions that are ongoing. Also traditions that, despite someone else’s claim, probably don’t cause any psychological harm, at least most of the time.
I think you may be surprised and hopefully disturbed by this UNICEF article.
So no, it was not “a long time ago.” It’s “hopefully by 2030.”
Oh, so as long as you don’t believe the person and can therefore invalidate their feelings without guilt, and it only psychologically hurts “some” people who you I suppose arbitrarily believe over the ones you don’t, it’s fine?
Not sure I can agree with you on this one.
Believe what person? Hurts some people?
I have asked for evidence that it hurts anyone and have not received it.
Actually you asked for nothing, you made a whole lot of assumptions instead. And
Here again you invalidate the feelings of those telling you with their own words that they don’t like it. The evidence they don’t like it is them telling you they don’t like it, you don’t need a scientific paper to corroborate that some people find it objectionable, you just dismiss them because you want to partake in the behavior they find objectionable.
I absolutely asked for evidence. I just didn’t ask you for evidence. Weird that you apparently read through my comments and didn’t see that.
And not one person has told me that they were personally hurt by this happening to them. They have just said that it is wrong.
You show me the person in this thread who said it caused them pain. I can’t invalidate feelings that people don’t have. Someone not liking something has nothing to do with whether or not that thing causes trauma or any sort of psychological damage to anyone unless it caused them that damage.
And now I am asking you for evidence. Please quote the person that was hurt by their parents doing this.
Ok, I was personally hurt by it happening to me. Now what’s your excuse?
Today I learned flying squid is okay with this kind of thing and that’s fucked up
It’s a violation of privacy & consent
How do you get a baby’s consent exactly?
You can’t, that’s why you don’t take photos of them naked.
My goodness are you obsessed with things I said hours or days ago.
You do understand that to cultures where this isnt the norm, it sounds ridiculous to show naked pictures of your child when they were an infant to, well anyone?
It being a tradition has no bearing on it being awful or not. Circumcision is a tradition.
I’m sure you can find a more modern way to embarrass your child without resorting to CP?
Which cultures? And why do they get to decide what is right and what is wrong?
Also, naked photos of children are not child porn. Do you think they come out of the womb with clothes on?
I had to clean shit out of my daughter’s vagina regularly when I changed her diapers. Was that, similarly, sexual assault?
I personally have no use for pictures of baby genitals, but you really do huh? It even makes you upset we want to take away your baby genital pictures huh?
Is this some perverse form of individualism?
Edit: if you took a picture of you cleaning your daughters vagina out, and showed someone, yes that would be child porn and child abuse.
Again- they don’t come out of the womb with clothes on. Are parents not supposed to take a picture of their newly-born child or should they put a fig leaf on them?
I’ve asked several times- if this is child pornography, find me an example of someone getting in legal trouble for having a naked photo of their own baby on their phone. One person.
Were you even in the room with your newborns? Both of mine were moved to a table, cleaned up, and swaddled. I would have had to literally interrupt them to take a genital picture of them.
But I guess where you live, they pause first and ask if you want a full naked body shot? Cool tradition, I know you love those.
I’m sure noone has been in trouble for ONLY having their naked child’s pictures on their phone, but I’m sure those pictures have ended up in CP collections. I’m sure you have perfect opsec though so its fine.
Legality as side, since its not the law preventing me from abusing children anyways, I’m arguing that its morally wrong. Plenty of immoral actions are legal from my perspective.
Why does your perspective need baby genitals to be featured again?
No one paused anything. My wife gave my mother-in-law a camera and she took a picture because my wife asked her to. Then we sent that picture to my father and my mother who was on a layover in an airport.
I assume no one masturbated to it.
And who is featuring them? Certainly not me. Have I shown them to you? No. And i wouldn’t.
And you can say, for certain, that noone has ever seen that photo without your permission? I guess you might have me here if its a physical photo locked in a safe somewhere.
Edit: although these had to printed at a business, where anyone working could have copied them