• sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Were the Russians also doing chattel slavery like the west was for literally hundreds of years? Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great, but the transatlantic slave trade, the mass genocide of the americas, the subjugation of africa, india and china built the wealth of europe. You’re trying to act like these two things are the same and they’re not

    Отъебись ватник блядь.

    lmao

    seriously though:

    The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

    Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing. Link to more info

    • barsoap@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great,

      They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

      built the wealth of europe

      No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills which allowed the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes – as they could be fed. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

      Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing.

      You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

      • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills allowing less the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

        It was definitely the slavery

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          If it was slavery then why didn’t Africa develop that quickly? They’re the ones who sold the slaves!

          • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Because they weren’t the ones working the slaves to death in Caribbean plantations. Have you read any history?

            Also there were plenty of indigenous slaves taken, whole generations worked to death in mines to send silver back to europe

                • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  …for centuries if not millennia at quite low ROI and then Europeans came along with fancy ships and the capacity to conquer more fertile places earning quite a bit more dough per slave.

                  As said: The primary cause of Europe’s wealth is early technological development, at scale, and in breadth, enabled because lots of food could be produced with comparatively small workforce.

                  • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, the europeans showed up to profit-maximize the slavery process. That was the technological innovation, the boats helped, but the main part of the equation was translating huge amounts of human suffering into money, and then re-investing it. You’re hyping up Europeans technology up a little too much, chauvinists tend to. Europe was a plague-ridden backwater for centuries before they opted to sacrifice endless humans to Moloch. They “invented” all sorts of science to tell themselves it was the ‘natural order’.

                    Based on how you’re responding you do think this is a good thing though and are giving it positive spin.

      • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

        You already told me to fuck off for pointing out that parts of Ukraine have been getting shelled by its own government for over 8 years, considering that response, yes that was my conclusion.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          You already told me to fuck off for pointing out that parts of Ukraine have been getting shelled by its own government for over 8 years,

          No. I told you to fuck off for this:

          The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

          Yes, Ukraine has been shelling Russian positions in those regions for quite a while now.

          • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Donetsk city has been routinely getting hit for years, it’s why the SMO started

            and again here you are cheerleading for indiscriminately killing civilians

            Yes, Ukraine has been shelling Russian positions in those regions for quite a while now.

            hitler-detector

            • barsoap@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              it’s why the SMO started

              A resounding no. The worst collateral damage happened under Poroshenko, one of the reasons why he lost against Zelenskyy.

      • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

        Yes it was bad, still not as bad as chattel slavery, but pretty bad, that’s why it was completely deserved when they had a revolution. Not sure why you keep bringing up the colonization of siberia like it’s relevant to what’s going on now though. Comparing the amount of human life lost in that to the conquest of Americas though is just silly- there’s no comparison and the same American government is still around since then!

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          This isn’t a “did the UK or Russia kill more natives” kind of discussion. This is a “Russia is a colonial empire” kind of discussion.

          And yes of course fewer natives died in Siberia, it’s fucking cold there there were never many in the first place.

          • sharedburdens [comrade/them, any]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            They have had several government changes since then. The US has the same constitution since it was doing its shit, the one with slavery in it. (they only do it to prisoners now though, don’t ask too many questions about why they have the highest prison population in the world)

            Calling them a ‘colonial empire’ especially from the seat of the worlds largest and most brutal historical colonial empires is laughable. (1/3 of Africa has had a monetary policy run out of Paris to this day, I wonder why they’re kicking them out)