Ukraine's military chief on Saturday warned that the battlefield situation in the country's industrial east has “significantly worsened in recent days,” as warming weather has allowed Russian forces to launch a fresh push along several stretches of the more than 1,000-km long frontline.
The point remains. Especially at the start of the invasion we just gave Ukraine old scraps. We did not give them what they needed to win, only to stall.
After the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the U.S. went on a secret buying spree to collect “a small number of Soviet missile defense systems so that they could be examined by U.S. intelligence experts and help with training American forces,” The Wall Street Journal reports. Now, the U.S. is sending some of those air defense systems to Ukraine to help Ukrainian forces shoot down Russian fighter jets and missiles. Ukrainian soldiers already know how to operate old Soviet weapons systems.
The Cold War-era Leopard 1A5 may be old, but it is still effective, Germany says. The country is now training Ukrainian troops to operate the weapons.
The Leopard 1A5 is so old, in fact, that the German trainers had to rely on soldiers from the Dutch and Danish armies — where the model was used for longer — and former German tank drivers who trained back in the 1980s and 1990s. The last time the German army actually taught recruits on the system was in 2000.
Some of the trainers were civilians in their 50s or 60s who took a break from their day jobs to help. “They were really important in getting us going from a cold start,” said Colonel Maulbecker, who normally commands a battalion of modern tanks.
The German government on Thursday authorized Poland to transfer five Soviet-era fighter jets to Ukraine, boosting Kyiv’s ability to challenge Russia by air.
Poland obtained the MiG-29 jets from Germany in the early 2000s, according to media reports. They were originally used by the armed forces in Communist-era East Germany.
And I can go on and on with that list. Even now Ukraine is still waiting for their F16s and it’s probably too late by now.
We Soviet equipment because Ukraine knew how to use it and has the expertise to support it.
Most of our current equipment is Cold War. The m16 is from the Cold War. The m1 is from the Cold War. The f16 is from the Cold War. The m4 is from the Cold War.
The javelin and stinger are all Cold War.
I’m not sure why you are focused on the f16. It won’t change the war. I always see non/military people acting like the f-16 is a super weapon.
Ukraine knew how to use it and has the expertise to support it
Not necessarily. There’s a reason they needed training for those old tanks. Germany having to grab some random 60 year old civvies to give the training because it was all rotting away in warehouses exemplifies that nobody wanted to use that stuff anymore and we were glad to ditch it. There’s also plenty of old British and French tanks being used in Ukraine right now.
You are right there is stuff that the Ukrainians had before. But that’s also the problem. We didn’t want that cold war stuff ourselves, we already upgraded from it.
But when it comes to giving Ukraine our modern new equipment we got all stingy about it. It’s not just F16’s. No Reaper Drones, No modern tanks, even the anti air missiles are often old stuff. But we have new stuff! We just don’t want to give it to Ukraine because then “we have nothing to defend ourselves”.
Only recently have we really committed to giving Ukraine some newer weapons. But it’s likely already too late now.
The m1a1 is still a modern thank. It’s better than anything the Russians have. We gave them the patriot. Our current air defense system. What’s newer than the patriot?
What’s newer than the stinger or javelin ?
You keep saying things that aren’t true. We are not giving them garbage. We are giving them things they can use and are still better than the Russian crap they have.
We did give them a lot of Russian gear because they didn’t need training to use it. We won’t give them certain weapons because they are restricted and only for countries we’ve vetted.
Ukraine got some good weapons. I’m just saying that especially at the start of the war we were very much just dumping old garbage into Ukraine. If we didn’t do a bureaucratic stall for 1-2 years and didn’t allow Putin to get a war economy going but decisively sent modern weapons to Ukaine, Ukraine would have won by now. Russia did not have a good weapons arsenal at the start of the war.
But we did not do that and turned the war into a stall fest. Just barely giving Ukraine enough equipment to hold out while bleeding manpower. Zelensky had to regularly go on trips around the world asking for some modern weaponry.
And now we are finally getting them some new stuff but it’s getting real obvious that it’s just too little too late.
I’m not sure you understand how military equipment works. You. Can’t just hand someone an f16 and say happy hunting. Also Ukraine isn’t vetted for the technology. You act like they some trusted ally.
Ukraine at the time didn’t have a runaway that the F-16 could even use reliably. They didn’t have trained pilots. They didn’t have trained staff to maintain it. They didn’t have the equipment to maintain an f-16.
That’s why we gave them Soviet hardware.
Ukraine doesn’t have the skills to maintain an m1. They didn’t know how to operate one and we didn’t want our best technology falling into Russian hands. When an m1 breaks and we can’t keep control of it. We blow them.
Trump was the first to arm them and sent javelins. What do you think is better than the javelin in our arsenal?
What is better than the patriot?
It’s Zelenskyy job to ask for things but it’s our military job to give them what they can use. It’s also our job to make sure our country and countries with treaties are protected. We don’t have a treaty with Ukraine. Thei corruption in Ukraine is epic.
I support Ukraine but I don’t support just handing over anything they want but can’t use. You need the logistics to support the equipment. You need the know how to use the equipment.
We taught them how to use it and then they did the exact opposite in the counter offensive and made no progress. They didn’t want to use nato tactics which is how you fight with nato equipment
Can’t just hand someone an f16 and say happy hunting. Also Ukraine isn’t vetted for the technology. You act like they some trusted ally.
Yeah that was the excuse we used to not give it to them in the past. So what has changed?
Sure it takes training to use this equipment. But we did not start that training as soon as possible. We waited 1-2years and now then go “yeah actually you’re getting slammed maybe we can get you some F16s and Patriot missiles”.
In any case it’s clearly too late now. Unless we start sending massive amounts of modern weaponry to Ukraine it’s basically GG and all that we’re doing now is throwing away more forcefully conscripted Ukrainian men as cannon fodder against Russia.
Sure but it certainly doesn’t take two years.
The point remains. Especially at the start of the invasion we just gave Ukraine old scraps. We did not give them what they needed to win, only to stall.
I would say what we gave was scarps. It’s all current issue hardware. Nothing was obsolete.
That’s been part of the problem. We can degrade our ability to fight by giving it to Ukraine.
The large gap is the 155mm ammo. We can’t keep up with that.
We were sending cold war era Garbonzo at the start
Biden is reportedly sending Ukraine old Soviet air defense weapons from America’s own secret stockpile
An Obsolete German Tank Seeks a Second Life on Ukraine’s Front Lines
Ukraine is getting Soviet-era fighter jets from Poland after Germany approves transfer
And I can go on and on with that list. Even now Ukraine is still waiting for their F16s and it’s probably too late by now.
We Soviet equipment because Ukraine knew how to use it and has the expertise to support it. Most of our current equipment is Cold War. The m16 is from the Cold War. The m1 is from the Cold War. The f16 is from the Cold War. The m4 is from the Cold War.
The javelin and stinger are all Cold War.
I’m not sure why you are focused on the f16. It won’t change the war. I always see non/military people acting like the f-16 is a super weapon.
Not necessarily. There’s a reason they needed training for those old tanks. Germany having to grab some random 60 year old civvies to give the training because it was all rotting away in warehouses exemplifies that nobody wanted to use that stuff anymore and we were glad to ditch it. There’s also plenty of old British and French tanks being used in Ukraine right now.
You are right there is stuff that the Ukrainians had before. But that’s also the problem. We didn’t want that cold war stuff ourselves, we already upgraded from it.
But when it comes to giving Ukraine our modern new equipment we got all stingy about it. It’s not just F16’s. No Reaper Drones, No modern tanks, even the anti air missiles are often old stuff. But we have new stuff! We just don’t want to give it to Ukraine because then “we have nothing to defend ourselves”.
Only recently have we really committed to giving Ukraine some newer weapons. But it’s likely already too late now.
The m1a1 is still a modern thank. It’s better than anything the Russians have. We gave them the patriot. Our current air defense system. What’s newer than the patriot? What’s newer than the stinger or javelin ?
You keep saying things that aren’t true. We are not giving them garbage. We are giving them things they can use and are still better than the Russian crap they have.
We did give them a lot of Russian gear because they didn’t need training to use it. We won’t give them certain weapons because they are restricted and only for countries we’ve vetted.
The patriot stuff is fine. But it took more than one year for Ukraine to get the first ones. Same with the M1A1 tanks
Ukraine got some good weapons. I’m just saying that especially at the start of the war we were very much just dumping old garbage into Ukraine. If we didn’t do a bureaucratic stall for 1-2 years and didn’t allow Putin to get a war economy going but decisively sent modern weapons to Ukaine, Ukraine would have won by now. Russia did not have a good weapons arsenal at the start of the war.
But we did not do that and turned the war into a stall fest. Just barely giving Ukraine enough equipment to hold out while bleeding manpower. Zelensky had to regularly go on trips around the world asking for some modern weaponry.
And now we are finally getting them some new stuff but it’s getting real obvious that it’s just too little too late.
I’m not sure you understand how military equipment works. You. Can’t just hand someone an f16 and say happy hunting. Also Ukraine isn’t vetted for the technology. You act like they some trusted ally.
Ukraine at the time didn’t have a runaway that the F-16 could even use reliably. They didn’t have trained pilots. They didn’t have trained staff to maintain it. They didn’t have the equipment to maintain an f-16.
That’s why we gave them Soviet hardware.
Ukraine doesn’t have the skills to maintain an m1. They didn’t know how to operate one and we didn’t want our best technology falling into Russian hands. When an m1 breaks and we can’t keep control of it. We blow them.
Trump was the first to arm them and sent javelins. What do you think is better than the javelin in our arsenal?
What is better than the patriot?
It’s Zelenskyy job to ask for things but it’s our military job to give them what they can use. It’s also our job to make sure our country and countries with treaties are protected. We don’t have a treaty with Ukraine. Thei corruption in Ukraine is epic.
I support Ukraine but I don’t support just handing over anything they want but can’t use. You need the logistics to support the equipment. You need the know how to use the equipment.
We taught them how to use it and then they did the exact opposite in the counter offensive and made no progress. They didn’t want to use nato tactics which is how you fight with nato equipment
Yeah that was the excuse we used to not give it to them in the past. So what has changed?
Sure it takes training to use this equipment. But we did not start that training as soon as possible. We waited 1-2years and now then go “yeah actually you’re getting slammed maybe we can get you some F16s and Patriot missiles”.
In any case it’s clearly too late now. Unless we start sending massive amounts of modern weaponry to Ukraine it’s basically GG and all that we’re doing now is throwing away more forcefully conscripted Ukrainian men as cannon fodder against Russia.