• rdri@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    So what you’re saying is that Hamas should have known that israel are such insanely brutal barbarian Nazi’s that they should have been too scared to stand up against oppression?

    I can’t say what they should have known, but ot looks like they were really aiming for Israel to go “your rocket strikes always hurt but that massacre hit us especially hard, and you also took civillians as hostages, so yeah, we have no choice but to stop oppressing you. Sorry for everything and you can keep the hostages”, which couldn’t be fruitful no matter how you look at it.

    Did you see videos recorded by Palestinians themselves on that day though?

    • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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      9 months ago

      Random gore videos from syria and other places and some rape videos from different time and regions. I was scared as a muslim but my friends said be brave, idf is good at spreading false information and it really did happen.

        • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Many of the videos are real. Hamas definitely shot some civilians. The problem is all the burnt bodies.

          If you ask the question “How did Israel count 250 burnt Hamas fighters as Israeli civilians” the narrative falls apart.

          • rdri@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            I don’t think such a question is what a theoretical judgment should end with.

            I’d like to ask a question “is there an explanation of logic behind the attack on October 7?”.

            The only explanation I can come up with is that hamas wanted a lot of Palestinians to get killed. This fits more points in a “hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians” narrative, than any other explanation would fit the “Israel doesn’t care about Israeli” narrative.

            • Thief_of_Crows@lemmy.ml
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              9 months ago

              The explanation is that Israel has been effectively laying seige to them for 30 years, and they found a chance to actually hurt them and seized it. There was no other choice available to them. If some Palestinians survive this, it will be more than would have survived without the 10/7 attack

              • rdri@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                What are you talking about? Did you see Gaza population charts for last years?

                • Thief_of_Crows@lemmy.ml
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                  9 months ago

                  There’s a similar fallacy that’s often applied to USSR under Stalin: when you compare populations in 1930 to 1934, IE appx the length of the devastating famine they experienced, you’ll see that it declined something like 20% over that time. People who generate propaganda about communism will say that something like 30 million people died during it, by subtracting the numbers, and ignoring the fact that birth rates had been steadily dropping for years as the famine grew worse. What actually happened is that 5-8 million died, and 22 million were never born.

                  My point being that it is inherently pretty misleading to use population data as the majority of your evidence. The most reliable evidence we have, IE our eyes and ears, shows us that Israel is deliberately harming and often killing Palestinians, under the logic of being a superior race. We can quibble about data all you like, the fact is that Israel is most certainly committing genocide.

                  • rdri@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    I understand what you mean here, but what you stated before basically means that somebody assumed that without October 7 attack, Palestinians will die out.

                    This reminds me how Putin mentioned that one of reasons for his invasion was that Ukraine bombed Lugansk and Donetsk for 8 years, while freely available data shows that during last few years there were only about 20 casualties per year. This can’t justify the aggression, same as the above can’t justify the October 7 attack.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      9 months ago

      I saw all the videos of Oct7.

      They took hostages because israel has illegally kidnapped many Palestinians and tortures them in prison without trial before oct7. And Hamas wants to trade their hostages for the Palestinians hostages kidnapped by israel.

      Did you see this video one though

          • rdri@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            So is it okay to propose that hamas could have a success if they captured the same amount?

            • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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              9 months ago

              No israel would still kill all the hostages held by Hamas. Their government doesn’t care about hostages.

                  • rdri@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    Hamas knows that the israeli government will try their best to kill all israeli hostages

                    That is unlikely as there is no record of that directive being (allegedly) invoked after 2016 towards civillians.

                    But they hoped the israeli populace would pressure their government harder

                    Pressure their government harder to do what exactly?