I don’t like the framing in this meme. “Wayland doesn’t run on Nvidia” implies that it’s a Wayland problem, but it’s actually Nvidia that fails to develop a modern, working driver.
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That still sounds like a Wayland problem, just not one that they have control of
It is an Nvidia problem. And we need to insist on Nvidia being the problem until they give in. Their lack of wanting to take responsibility for distributing graphics cards on the market by not developing working drivers and not even letting the community fix it by open sourcing their driver is not something we should tolerate anymore. They pissed people enough at this point over the years, with their lack of participation in an driver problem-free environment on Linux, so they should and they will take the blame.
Exactly. If Nvidia started completely half-arsing their Windows drivers, nobody would blame Microsoft.
Yet here in Linux land, it’s apparently the Linux devs’ (many of whom aren’t even paid) fault, as opposed to Nvidia’s.
Honestly, Nvidia’s marketing power is incredible. They make dogshit drivers and people point the finger at the OS developers rather than at Nvidia.
If Nvidia started completely half-arsing their Windows drivers, nobody would blame Microsoft
This is happened with Vista, amongst other problems.
Their “dogshit” drivers work great on X and did so back when ATis hardware was both closed source and hot garbage on Linux and they were utter trash all the way from early 2000s to 2014.
Ok. I’m not really interested in how things were in 2008. I’m interested in the here and now, which is where Wayland is widely used and increasingly used by the day, Nvidia’s drivers are a mess and AMD’s aren’t.
Person A: Man these Nvidia drivers keep causing issues
Person B: Umm ackshully Nvidia drivers used to be better than ATI drivers in 2008 ☝️🤓
Nvidia drivers continue to work great under X 2003-2024 for me. I’m sure Nvidia will work well under Wayland long before I bother to switch. The same folks who are always shitting on Nvidia seem to all own AMD hardware and many have spent years lying about Wayland being totally ready in 2015-2022 after they spent years lying about AMD GPU drivers being great in 2008-2013 when both were largely unusable in that time frame. Since few of the haters actually own any Nvidia hardware I presume they get their information from stroking each-others ego on reddit/lemmy/mastodon.
Yeah but X11 is unsuitable for modern computing.
The same folks who are always shitting on Nvidia seem to all own AMD hardware
Many do… because they know Nvidia is plagued with issues. Why would they buy hardware they’ve had/will have issues with?
I had to get rid of my 1080 Ti because of how unusably bad the Linux drivers were. AMD has ran great, out of the box, on X11 and Wayland. Wayland has been great, used it for years with no issues outside of with Nvidia hardware.
Maybe when Nvidia gets their shit together and have drivers that work properly ill give them another go.
Nvidia has a closed source driver. Wayland tries to support it but Nvidia keeps changing how the driver works every week. So it’s impossible to deliver quality with Nvidia shit.
For sure, but unfortunately, that’s still a Wayland problem.
Why are you lying? Large software projects change slowly and stuff like GPU drivers work according to standards and interfaces. The bugs experienced aren’t even on the open source software side. The bugs in the general case are largely in the nvidia side and being fixed on that side albeit not briskly.
Users don’t care whose problem it is. They can trivially log out and log in and select X changing GPU implies throwing away hundreds or thousands of dollars of hardware. Over 80% of discrete GPUs are Nvidia hardware.
Look, the people over at Wayland made a solid protocol, sure. But for all the time and effort they’ve put into getting it to the state it’s in today, it’s going to take a long while for all the apps, DEs, and TWMs to be ready. It took so long for the Linux desktop to get to the state it is on X11, which, for all it’s flaws, seems to be easier to develop for than Wayland.
Wacom Drivers, Nvidia Drivers, DE-Agnostic screensharing, screenshot, eyedropper tools are all in various states of not working/sort of working/working on wayland. This simply isn’t the case with X11. They all just work. That’s kind of a big win for X11 over Wayland.
It doesn’t matter how light weight and more secure your protocol is if you can’t use the tools you need to get the jobs you need done, whatever those jobs are. That is literally what computers are for at the end of the day, not to lord our superiority over others because our choice of tools are somehow better.
Yes Wayland is the future, but to say “Wayland is ready” while also saying “many of the apps for Wayland are not ready” ends up meaning that wayland is NOT ready.
Until the transition between X and Wayland is seamless (no adjusting environment variables), saying we should all just move to Wayland cuz ”is the future" are engaging in the same FOMO tactics that crytpo and AI bros have been doing for years. Fuck that noise.
You are not somehow better because you use Wayland. And yeah yeah, shots fired, down votes incoming. Come at me tech daddy.
You are absolutely right, I use Wayland on KDE cause two different refresh rate monitores but duude, even on amd you have some hassles. It is ok if you change some env variables, not OK for the average Joe.
Disabling mouse acceleration forcibly globally
xrandr. afaik, there’s no (standard) way to set display resolution from the command line in wayland. also, there’s no equivalent of xkill, so in order to kill an unresponsive gui app, you have to grep for its pid in
ps, which can get a bit tedious and annoying, especially for programs which spawn multiple processes.I use xfce, I have nvidia card, I sometimes capture a video of my screen and I regularly share my screen. Didn’t even try.
I’ll use Xorg until its deprecated or Wayland offers me some benefit other than “is new and shiny and the internet told me is cool”
I also became a bit sceptical about it with so many open source projects and basic functionality not supporting it yet after sooo many years of “Wayland is here”… so yeah, I’ll wait until someone gets xorg from my dead cold hands 😁
also I don’t get how aggressive people get about what other people have in their desktop, dude let me live my linux life alone 🤷♂️
Just random things like screen sharing not working in all applications or having weird issues with connecting more than 2 monitors.
For like half a second my brain thought this was a meme comparing the fictional megacorps Zorg Industries from “The Fifth Element” and the Weyland-Yutani Corporation from the “Alien” franchise.
Wayland runs on Nvidia though
Like, everything?
Guake doesn’t work, gnome-screenshot doesn’t work, Plank doesn’t work…
Most GUI utilities that integrate into the OS of some kind require drawing over apps. It’s absurd that Wayland doesn’t support this properly for uhhh no reason other than vague claims of improved security and process isolation. If someone’s into your system with such a degree of access it’s all over anyway.
If I’m not using Gnome, then I’ll be using i3 and then I honestly could care less which one, I’ll just be using the most compatible one which I think is just xorg. Plasma just sucks I’m so sorry, it’s messy.
And I’m sorry but there’s no serious work you can do with an AMD GPU either. I wish it wasn’t like this but it is, no CUDA no joy.
Wayland is DOA and will never replace Xorg. Deal with it.
This is just misinformed.
Sure your favorite apps may not use it, but Wayland does provide protocols for drawing things over other apps. https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-layer-shell-unstable-v1
I never used guake with i3 since scratchpads exist and are the general solution, and sway works fine there.
and there’s plenty of screenshot apps that work. I haven’t tried gnome-screenshot, but I find it hard to believe that it or some alternative gnome one doesn’t work given the effort the project has put into Wayland
nvidia support isn’t great but it is getting better. I haven’t bought nvidia in forever but I know plasma and gnome both say they have support for Wayland on nvidia now.
For gaming amd is great, for real work I’d just rent time on some cloud service lol. If I’m that worried about performance my one consumer gpu isn’t going to make a dent either
Nvidia works great on Wayland. Even unusual configuration I’m running with egpu hooked up to a laptop with another Nvidia card built in. Zero issues. I’m allergic to Gnome, but KDE works beautifully.
I’m running with egpu hooked up to a laptop with another Nvidia card built in.
Hey could you please point me to some resources to wrap my head around what I need to know to consider an egpu setup with Linux? Just looking for something that will overview of requirements and pain points, all the better if I can try to figure out what a good bang for the buck rig looks like right now.
This is something I’ve been curious about for awhile, but most of the articles I’ve found seem to assume I’ve got some egpu knowhow already.
I found almost no resources for this but it was mostly plug and play.
One thing I can suggest is keep everything same brand. My laptop has an Nvidia gpu built in and I tried using amd gpu without success. Spent about a week on it and tried various combination of drivers and settings. Nvidia just works.
Also Intel gpus require rebar enabled which almost none of the laptops support so I did not really consider them even though they were super attractive because of pricing.
The way I use it is set prime-select to Intel2 which disables built in Nvidia gpu and then I activate external gpu after login by running nvidia-smi as root after login. Then you just launch apps you want to use Nvidia gpu with
__NV_PRIME_RENDER_OFFLOAD=1 __GLX_VENDOR_LIBRARY_NAME=nvidia command_name arguments
Thank you! So it sounds like I just need to find a GPU and enclosure combo that fits my budget (TBD) , and it’s like adding any other bit of hardware. I do have an intel-only system currently (integrated Iris XE), so I’ll have to dig in on that. Thanks!
What I don’t like about Wayland is that many things are specific to individual DEs. Like global shortcuts or taking screenshots. In my app I have two different solutions for taking screenshots in GNOME and KDE using XDG portals. It causes fragmentation.
o wow didn’t know this. such horrible design decision! So if I understood correctly ALL the apps that want to screenshot need to write independent code for each desktop environment??? I was just mostly ignoring Wayland until becoming mature, but now I actively dislike it with passion.
So, if this is true and I understand correctly, it means that if I chose to use Xfce (as I do), I’ll have to hope really hard that zoom, skype, slack, discord… decide to provide support for not only linux,… but XFCE or give up and abandon XFCE? yeah f*** Wayland, they really didn’t think about the open source community when designing their solution. I don’t wat to even think of people that use other smaller desktop managers…
I mean, screen sharing is basic functionality these days, in the interview for my current job I needed to use… I think it was teams. Is not even something you can chose, is bad enough to be exclusive linux user as it is, always wondering if in such cases something will not work.
Honestly, long live Xorg. if deprecated and I have to switch to gnome/kde or lose functionality I might as well switch to windows after 20 something years of not using it.
Can you screenshare with wayland?
Yep, using Pipewire.
slaps forehead Of course! Silly me for not realizing the obviousness of needing to use the audio subsystem to take screenshots.
How am I being downvoted for a questions and this stands haha
Take my upvote kind stranger
xdotool. I just spent a non zero amount of time building and setting up ydotool (a similar tool that works on Wayland) as a systemd service on my raspberry pi. Made me appreciate how nice it is to just install a thing and have it work flawlessly even after a reboot and all you ever did to set it up was a single installation command that completed in like 3 seconds.
This debate is so fucking stupid. X. Is. Dead.
Install Wayland, file bug reports, help everyone move into the future.
X is dead
Looks like I’m quitting my job because Wayland is the future asshat. How about I just run both X and Wayland on my computer, file bug reports on what doesn’t work with Wayland, and continue to use X until they fix it or you pull your head out of your own ass? Whichever comes first.
Touch a nerve? How about you chill the fuck out.
