Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    20135·
    1 年前

    Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.

    For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)

    Not only does it include a lot of water that isn’t part of the Strait, right off of China’s coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.

    People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don’t think Taiwan having this zone is bad – countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby – but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.

    • Too Lazy Didn't Name@lemmy.woodward.techEnglish
      99·
      1 年前

      OK, but these articles arent alerting on that type of traffic, only when military aircraft are flying near Thailand, so whats the significance of the ADIZ extending into China in this context?

      • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
        78·
        1 年前

        That’s exactly what type of traffic these articles are alerting. Which is why there’s no need to even pay attention to it.

        Also Thailand has had Chinese military visit it’s country as well as trained with Chinese soldiers. If you know so little, why comment?

        • Too Lazy Didn't Name@lemmy.woodward.techEnglish
          99·
          1 年前

          The quoted text in your reply says that the jets crossed a half way point over the sea. They were not over mainland China.

          This feels like having a conversation with bing’s chat bot.

          • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
            136·
            1 年前

            Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.

            This is what the original post quoted. Flying over international air space is NOT news worthy. Unless China does it, suddenly it’s news. And yes, in case you don’t understand, the median line IS international air space. In fact, that’s USA’s whole point of freedom of navigation is that anyone can fly or sail over that median line.

            So if your argument that countries shouldn’t freely fly or sail over the Taiwan Strait, you agree with China, NOT Taiwan.

            • Too Lazy Didn't Name@lemmy.woodward.techEnglish
              310·
              1 年前

              My argument is that you shouldn’t fly military aircraft so close to a country in their ADIZ after stating you don’t believe they’re a country and that you will take them over with violent means if necessary.

              • Joncash2@lemmy.ml
                114·
                1 年前

                Ah classic, your all for rule of law until there’s an actor you don’t like following rule of law. Suddenly the law should change just for them. Hypocrite.

    • RandAlThor@lemmy.caOP
      5051·
      1 年前

      So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now. You obviously didn’t read the article - “Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.”

      In international relations, militaries have defined and at times unspoken rules of engagement. This was NOT routine flight over mainland China that you are making out to be, but was a clear breach of said protocols. Thus Taiwan sent its fighter jets to observe the Chinese military aircraft.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    13016·
    1 年前

    Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?

  • ThomasMuentzner [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    13018·
    1 年前

    okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected …

    this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,… theirby producing the most wonderfull “Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda” of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .

    PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.

    “Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people”

      • cosecantphi [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        45·
        1 年前

        394 from the perspective of Hexbear. The pre-emptive lemmy.world defederation with Hexbear effectively splits big threads like this into two sections. At the top is the much higher activity Hexbear posting, and at the bottom is the lower activity lemmy.world posting where instead of substantive discussion, people who are in support of China just get downvoted to oblivion.

        Ironically, Hexbear’s total removal of downvotes on their end confers an advantage here. Discussions and dunkings involving a lot of Hexbear users tend to rise to the top of threads sorted by hot because the lack of downvotes promotes actual discussion upon disagreement. This results in higher activity levels than those produced by the passive downvoting behavior typical of more reddit-like instances.

          • cosecantphi [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            33·
            1 年前

            Lemmy.world seems to be the only instance that would have been big enough to downvote us down the thread as viewed from other instances, but they defederated so we can’t see them and they can’t see us at all.

            The rest that are federated don’t have the numbers to do this, especially when you consider a large chunk of them are lemmygrad users who are posting side by side with us. So overall our higher posting activity (that is partially a result of the lack of downvotes changing how we interact) results in Hexbear user heavy discussions rising to the top of threads even as viewed from other instances.

            To see the whole structure, go over to lemmy.ml or lemmygrad, find this thread there, then scroll. Toward the bottom you’ll find a sort of underworld in this thread of lemmy.world users downvoting lemmygrad users into oblivion.

  • OceanSoap@lemmy.ml
    635·
    1 年前

    Goddammit, I do NOT want us to be propping up a war in Ukraine and fighting an actual war with China.

    • ElHexo [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      16·
      1 年前

      I believe State is keen on Ukraine (and maybe both), but the Pentagon is against the war in Ukraine because they want to shore up efforts to contain China.

      Kissinger and other realists are no doubt bashing their heads against desks because the masterstroke of the US foreign policy in the 60s and 70s was to support the Sino-Soviet split and ensure that China and Russia don’t ever find themselves with common goals.

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
      131·
      1 年前

      I wonder if we’d drop Ukraine if WWIII was starting. On the one hand, it’s WWIII, on the other hand maybe Russia is still a likely enemy?

      • ElHexo [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        101·
        1 年前

        The US is really only providing enough support to stall Russia and use up Ukrainian and Russian forces

        The real question is the commitment of US allies that have already provided materiel support for Ukraine.

        If it were WW3, the nukes would be flying and everyone in the northern hemisphere will be dead from famine in a year or two.

        • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          1 年前

          everyone in the northern hemisphere will be dead from famine in a year or two.

          Don’t underestimate my will to grow and eat nothing but potatos. If I don’t die to bombs I’m making it through that shit.

          • ElHexo [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            4·
            1 年前

            The reduction in sun is an issue, but far worse are the -10 degree celsius temperature drops and the 50 percent less rain

            But potatoes are life, so I could see it

            • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
              3·
              1 年前

              That’s why you go for the potato. This fucker will grow under any conditions. I’m sure we could figure out a way to make up for some of the hours lost too, solar panels + battery + grow lights. Doesn’t need to run that much, just enough to make up the lost few hours. Maybe I should start investigating this now.

              • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
                1·
                1 年前

                I don’t know where you are, but they’re guaranteed to not grow below freezing. You could use a greenhouse, but you better get building now because you’re going to need an acre or two per person.

                • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  1·
                  1 年前

                  An acre? I got 200 out of my 2x4 raised bed this year that I’ve been playing around with and like 170 last year. Why do you say two acres per person? Google tells me that you usually get 16-24 tonnes per acre.

                  Now, obviously yield will be down during this but I’m not expecting it to be that bad. Tents could be an option if temperatures do get bad it’s really not difficult to heat the tent we grow our palms in.

                  In all likelihood if the shit hits the fan I plan to organise a local group and we can commandeer the nearby golf course for land, while encouraging everyone to use what green space they have on top. Fuck allowing that land to go to waste in those conditions. This is all obviously assuming we don’t die in the nukes or radiation.

        • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
          2·
          1 年前

          Yeah, “WWIII but no nukes yet” discussions are always a little bit iffy. Let’s try and keep a lid on things, guys.

          It seems like the actual NATO doctrine is to try and dip back out of a full-scale war before things get radioactive, in the already bad scenario that it happens, and the conventional military is basically there to provide certainty that there’s no benefit to escalating that far in the first place.

      • Benghandhi@beehaw.org
        4·
        1 年前

        I assume NATO would officially swoop in and bomb the everliving fuck out of Russia’s fleet and fortified positions before diverting their attention elsewhere. Basically giving Ukraine a much easier path forward.

    • TheRealTurducken@lemmy.world
      11·
      1 年前

      Nobody wants to have to defend free and sovereign nations such as Ukraine and Taiwan from agressive expansionist foreign powers like China and Russia. But here we are.