Its cringe because Hamas is literally calling for Israeli genocide. They literally are chanting “From River to the Sea” and “Death to America”. Meanwhile, Israel has been sitting here with mostly untouched borders since 1967, proving that they aren’t genociding anyone in the past half-century.
I recognize that a lot of this is younger people not knowing the history of the region. But brutal killings and massacres are par-for-the-course here. And whenever they happen, Israel always responds disproportionally to “prove” that those populations shouldn’t mess with Israel. Its a calculated brutality of “Don’t mess with us, and we won’t mess with you”. At no point has Israel ever gone as far as genocide, and even today I stand by that.
Now, the policy of disproportional response is pretty bad from a Christian (and even Jewish) mindset. See “An eye for an eye”, as per Jewish law/custom from millenia ago. You should never invoke more pain/suffering than what was originally dealt to you. And we need to remind Israel of this and of their culture, and of their history. But calling them Nazis, or genocidal, or whatever, when they’re clearly not (and are instead just… very disproportional and brutal), is counterproductive. You need to actually have an argument that matches the reality of what’s happening here.
We are going into an election year. If enough people make this shitty argument, you’re going to fuck over your political chances. So I’d like to erase these shitty arguments before they do harm to your political cause. You can take my advice, or ignore it. Up to you. But its in everyone’s best interest to make proper and factual arguments.
Ah yes, an activist holding up “From the River to the Sea” is calling for genocide, but Israel who’s an illegitimate apartheid state actually committing genocide somehow doesn’t make you bat an eye here?
You say a lot of words but they mostly mean nothing :/
Ah yes, an activist holding up “From the River to the Sea” is calling for genocide
I mean, do you know what those words even fucking mean? That’s literally calling for the wiping out of the Jewish people and a return of the land to Muslim rule.
illegitimate
Does the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine not… exist or something? The legal paperwork is literally right here establishing Israel under the charter of the United Nations. Now this was a shitty plan, built on a shitty idea from 1917 called the Balfour Declaration. But there’s nothing “illegitimate” about this. All the paperwork and everything was signed and recognized by the United Nations. And likely recognized by literally every country from everyone this discussion is from. (USA, Germany, Britain, etc. etc. Whoever is in this thread is probably from a country that recognizes the United Nations plan from 1947).
actually committing genocide
You’re skipping the demonstration of Israel pushing for a genocide. I’ve been asking all thread and everyone keeps ignoring my calls to provide evidence.
Dude, you’re taking the slogans of Hamas, PLO, or PLA. Do you… even look at who the fuck these people are before you take their language? They’re horrifyingly evil.
decades of erasing Palestinians and their identity isn’t.
Explain.
For example, when I point out Ukrainian genocide, I point out the process of Russian filtration operations where children are stolen out of Ukraine, their libraries burned, their textbooks replaced by Russian textbooks, their language destroyed. When I point out Uyghur genocide in China, I can point to the forced sterilization. Literally making people unable to have babies through the use of chemical / medicine processes which naturally destroys the culture and the people entirely over time.
Meanwhile, we can look at Gaza and…
Oh wow, its like the people of Gaza continue to grow and develop as a people, even under the (brutal) rule of Israel. Yes, Israel is brutal, that doesn’t make them genocidal.
I know right? Its like you didn’t have an argument from the start or any proof of genocidal Israelis or factual backing behind your discussion point or meme.
Sorry to be like this, but I really can’t help you. If you don’t see how this is a genocide, I don’t know what I could possibly say or do to change that. If the dead innocent people can’t convince you and Israel’s ongoing genocide and apartheid policy isn’t proof enough, then there is no hope I can have for you.
Answer: No. It was “just” war, and brutality. Further bombs (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) were similarly NOT genocide, and the Japanese people agree with us. It was an incredibly brutal move, but everyone agrees that the USA wasn’t trying to kill every Japanese person and therefore, they forgave us. Large numbers, even thousands or hundreds-of-thousands, or even millions of people can die without it being a genocide. Its not the “innocence” of people, or the “civilians” that make it a genocide. The genocide is the purposeful killing of the culture and attempts to erase the culture.
As brutal as Israel is (and we really need to get them to stop being so brutal), they at no point are trying to erase the Palestinians from existence. You’re having trouble finding evidence because the facts on the ground simply don’t line up with your worldview… but instead you’re just coming in from a meme culture or some kind of… shallow internet discussion rather from a steady historical background. So that’s where your mistake is.
This all goes back to my original point. Israel has done many wrongs here, and plenty of these wrongs absolutely need to be discussed. But the minute you start talking about Nazis, Genocides, or whatever, you’ve lost the argument and have left the realm of reality. You can, and should, criticize Israel for their overly brutal and disproportional attacks in Gaza. You can, and should, criticize Israel for turning into an ethno-state favoring one ethnicity for another (despite genetically speaking, Palestinians and Israelis sharing a ton of genetics so its not like there’s any clear scientific difference between the two).
Or alternatively, you can talk about the (close-to) genocide that’s occurring in the West Bank, but do not confuse the West Bank for Gaza. They’re different locations. The settler issues are kinda-sorta genocidal (just barely, but I think its at least in the realm of discussion). But its not anywhere close to the level that the Nazis attempted in their historic campaigns. So bringing up the rhetoric to Nazi-level / Hitler level is just laughable.
More than half a million people in Gaza — a quarter of the population — are starving, according to a report Thursday by the United Nations and other agencies, highlighting the humanitarian crisis caused by Israel’s bombardment and siege on the territory in response to Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack.
The extent of the population’s hunger eclipsed even the near-famines in Afghanistan and Yemen of recent years, according to figures in the report. The report warned that the risk of famine is “increasing each day,” blaming the hunger on insufficient aid entering Gaza.
“It doesn’t get any worse,’’ said Arif Husain, chief economist for the U.N.’s World Food Program. “I have never seen something at the scale that is happening in Gaza. And at this speed.”
But hey, big line goes up, who cares if they’re chronically malnourished and desperate. What possible consequence could this even have for regional stability and security?
I do care about the people of Gaza. I’m actively, and truly, believe that the best course of action is for the Egyptian/Qatari peace plan to be immediately signed.
But if someone is trying to convince me that Israel has been genociding the people of Gaza for the last 5 decades well… I’m sorry. The math just doesn’t add up. We have statistics that prove otherwise.
if someone is trying to convince me that Israel has been genociding the people of Gaza for the last 5 decades well… I’m sorry
When Yoav Gallant is applauding the Nakba of '48 and calling for a repeat in '23, this isn’t a question of you being convinced. Its purely a question of whether you acknowledge the reality on the ground in Gaza or plug your ears in denial. But don’t feel singled out. You’d hardly the first person to deny that a holocaust has taken place.
Hamas’s actions are unforgiveable, but and a huge BUT. “Mostly untouched borders” - doesnt mean much when fences mean nothing to the israeli government nor settlers being recorded stoning people and forcing them out of mutli-generational homes on a weekly basis for decades. A lot of sympathy and good will for israel was lost with how they ignore the crimes of zionists and punnish and starve common people who made a decent living working agriculture. A lot of common ground is found with the oppressed fighting to reclaim or protect what is theirs. Israel has been destroying families and breeding terrorists to justify their position.
I certainly think the West Bank situation is actually genocidal or close-to-it. There’s a lot there that honestly makes me uncomfortable. “Technically illegal” but if the Israeli police are ignoring the breakage of the laws here, then its not really illegal, is it?
The issue is that this meme is talking about Gaza. The West Bank issue is a totally different area of the country, and the people of Gaza barely even connect with the people of the West Bank anymore. Remember that the West Bank follows the Palestinian National Authority and/or Palestine Liberation Organization, while Gaza follows Hamas. So trying to tie the West Bank issues to the plight of the Gaza civilians is a major stretch.
Its cringe because Hamas is literally calling for Israeli genocide. They literally are chanting “From River to the Sea” and “Death to America”. Meanwhile, Israel has been sitting here with mostly untouched borders since 1967, proving that they aren’t genociding anyone in the past half-century.
I recognize that a lot of this is younger people not knowing the history of the region. But brutal killings and massacres are par-for-the-course here. And whenever they happen, Israel always responds disproportionally to “prove” that those populations shouldn’t mess with Israel. Its a calculated brutality of “Don’t mess with us, and we won’t mess with you”. At no point has Israel ever gone as far as genocide, and even today I stand by that.
Now, the policy of disproportional response is pretty bad from a Christian (and even Jewish) mindset. See “An eye for an eye”, as per Jewish law/custom from millenia ago. You should never invoke more pain/suffering than what was originally dealt to you. And we need to remind Israel of this and of their culture, and of their history. But calling them Nazis, or genocidal, or whatever, when they’re clearly not (and are instead just… very disproportional and brutal), is counterproductive. You need to actually have an argument that matches the reality of what’s happening here.
We are going into an election year. If enough people make this shitty argument, you’re going to fuck over your political chances. So I’d like to erase these shitty arguments before they do harm to your political cause. You can take my advice, or ignore it. Up to you. But its in everyone’s best interest to make proper and factual arguments.
Ah yes, an activist holding up “From the River to the Sea” is calling for genocide, but Israel who’s an illegitimate apartheid state actually committing genocide somehow doesn’t make you bat an eye here?
You say a lot of words but they mostly mean nothing :/
PS: you stand alone.
I mean, do you know what those words even fucking mean? That’s literally calling for the wiping out of the Jewish people and a return of the land to Muslim rule.
Does the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine not… exist or something? The legal paperwork is literally right here establishing Israel under the charter of the United Nations. Now this was a shitty plan, built on a shitty idea from 1917 called the Balfour Declaration. But there’s nothing “illegitimate” about this. All the paperwork and everything was signed and recognized by the United Nations. And likely recognized by literally every country from everyone this discussion is from. (USA, Germany, Britain, etc. etc. Whoever is in this thread is probably from a country that recognizes the United Nations plan from 1947).
You’re skipping the demonstration of Israel pushing for a genocide. I’ve been asking all thread and everyone keeps ignoring my calls to provide evidence.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/14/middleeast/us-aircraft-carrier-eisenhower-israel-gaza-intl-hnk-ml/index.html
2x Carrier Strike Groups say otherwise. But yeah, pretend that my side doesn’t have power if you want.
Hmmm I though Israel didn’t belive in the UN lol
What about these resolutions Israel ignored?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
If you think Palestinans wanting their old land back is somehow the same as wanting to kill all Jews, then I can’t help you.
From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free
Go report me to the mods if this is a “call for genocide” but somehow decades of erasing Palestinians and their identity isn’t.
Dude, you’re taking the slogans of Hamas, PLO, or PLA. Do you… even look at who the fuck these people are before you take their language? They’re horrifyingly evil.
Explain.
For example, when I point out Ukrainian genocide, I point out the process of Russian filtration operations where children are stolen out of Ukraine, their libraries burned, their textbooks replaced by Russian textbooks, their language destroyed. When I point out Uyghur genocide in China, I can point to the forced sterilization. Literally making people unable to have babies through the use of chemical / medicine processes which naturally destroys the culture and the people entirely over time.
Meanwhile, we can look at Gaza and…
Oh wow, its like the people of Gaza continue to grow and develop as a people, even under the (brutal) rule of Israel. Yes, Israel is brutal, that doesn’t make them genocidal.
What a waste of time to even have written a single letter back to you.
I know right? Its like you didn’t have an argument from the start or any proof of genocidal Israelis or factual backing behind your discussion point or meme.
sigh
Sorry to be like this, but I really can’t help you. If you don’t see how this is a genocide, I don’t know what I could possibly say or do to change that. If the dead innocent people can’t convince you and Israel’s ongoing genocide and apartheid policy isn’t proof enough, then there is no hope I can have for you.
Thanks for understanding.
Let me ask you a question then. Was the Tokyo Firebombing campaign of 1945 a genocide? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo
Answer: No. It was “just” war, and brutality. Further bombs (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) were similarly NOT genocide, and the Japanese people agree with us. It was an incredibly brutal move, but everyone agrees that the USA wasn’t trying to kill every Japanese person and therefore, they forgave us. Large numbers, even thousands or hundreds-of-thousands, or even millions of people can die without it being a genocide. Its not the “innocence” of people, or the “civilians” that make it a genocide. The genocide is the purposeful killing of the culture and attempts to erase the culture.
As brutal as Israel is (and we really need to get them to stop being so brutal), they at no point are trying to erase the Palestinians from existence. You’re having trouble finding evidence because the facts on the ground simply don’t line up with your worldview… but instead you’re just coming in from a meme culture or some kind of… shallow internet discussion rather from a steady historical background. So that’s where your mistake is.
This all goes back to my original point. Israel has done many wrongs here, and plenty of these wrongs absolutely need to be discussed. But the minute you start talking about Nazis, Genocides, or whatever, you’ve lost the argument and have left the realm of reality. You can, and should, criticize Israel for their overly brutal and disproportional attacks in Gaza. You can, and should, criticize Israel for turning into an ethno-state favoring one ethnicity for another (despite genetically speaking, Palestinians and Israelis sharing a ton of genetics so its not like there’s any clear scientific difference between the two).
Or alternatively, you can talk about the (close-to) genocide that’s occurring in the West Bank, but do not confuse the West Bank for Gaza. They’re different locations. The settler issues are kinda-sorta genocidal (just barely, but I think its at least in the realm of discussion). But its not anywhere close to the level that the Nazis attempted in their historic campaigns. So bringing up the rhetoric to Nazi-level / Hitler level is just laughable.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-21-2023-7d9718b32bf0d308c44c7c9e3c4e0deb
But hey, big line goes up, who cares if they’re chronically malnourished and desperate. What possible consequence could this even have for regional stability and security?
I do care about the people of Gaza. I’m actively, and truly, believe that the best course of action is for the Egyptian/Qatari peace plan to be immediately signed.
But if someone is trying to convince me that Israel has been genociding the people of Gaza for the last 5 decades well… I’m sorry. The math just doesn’t add up. We have statistics that prove otherwise.
When Yoav Gallant is applauding the Nakba of '48 and calling for a repeat in '23, this isn’t a question of you being convinced. Its purely a question of whether you acknowledge the reality on the ground in Gaza or plug your ears in denial. But don’t feel singled out. You’d hardly the first person to deny that a holocaust has taken place.
Hamas’s actions are unforgiveable, but and a huge BUT. “Mostly untouched borders” - doesnt mean much when fences mean nothing to the israeli government nor settlers being recorded stoning people and forcing them out of mutli-generational homes on a weekly basis for decades. A lot of sympathy and good will for israel was lost with how they ignore the crimes of zionists and punnish and starve common people who made a decent living working agriculture. A lot of common ground is found with the oppressed fighting to reclaim or protect what is theirs. Israel has been destroying families and breeding terrorists to justify their position.
I certainly think the West Bank situation is actually genocidal or close-to-it. There’s a lot there that honestly makes me uncomfortable. “Technically illegal” but if the Israeli police are ignoring the breakage of the laws here, then its not really illegal, is it?
The issue is that this meme is talking about Gaza. The West Bank issue is a totally different area of the country, and the people of Gaza barely even connect with the people of the West Bank anymore. Remember that the West Bank follows the Palestinian National Authority and/or Palestine Liberation Organization, while Gaza follows Hamas. So trying to tie the West Bank issues to the plight of the Gaza civilians is a major stretch.
took me a while to respond, but i do appreciate more context. this is good information to consider, ty.