cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/1736886
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The original was posted on /r/simpsonsshitposting by /u/maninplainview on 2023-12-25 08:28:44.
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People who say “keep politics out of” anything are usually stupid. Most things are political. Implicitly supporting the status quo is political. Leaving things unsaid is political.
Usually the people who pop out that line mean “keep politics that are different than mine out of”.
But on topic, punk is extremely political. For example, please review these lyrics from The Clash “Know Your Rights”, 1982
You have the right not to be killed
Murder Is a crime!
Unless it was done
By a policeman or an aristocratNo, most things aren’t political. But punk isn’t one of them.
Care to name some media that’s about people that has no political dimension?
For example, if a story has only white people or a story has non-white people, that’s a political dimension to the story. “Political” doesn’t only mean waving a flag.
A story about rescuing a princess from a castle has a political dimension. Super Mario Brothers isn’t what most people think of as a “political” game, but that’s there. It’s saying monarchy is okay, and unremarkably so as it doesn’t really spend any time on it. That’s not even touching the gender role stuff.
A story about a boy pursuing a girl is rife with political subtext. Why is he pursuing instead of her? Why not an arranged marriage? Why not gay? When does No mean No? All of that stuff is there, whether you like it or not. It might not be noticeable if it’s the dominant paradigm, but it’s still there.
Someone might say “Well you’re just reading into things!”. Unfortunately for them, that’s like the entirety of literary analysis. Additionally, the author’s intent is one tiny sliver of what’s important, if it matters at all.
Finding a political dimension in, like, lyric-less chiptune music might be more challenging, but most stuff that involves people has a political aspect to it.
Chiptune music is made by trans folks. So, very much political.
On one hand there probably are a lot of non political things. On the other hand, once you’ve been involved exclusively into non political things for long enough you may find yourself in a very bad situation politically. Like being governed by arseholes that don’t give a damn about you or human rights but everyone thinks that they somehow represent you
Politics (from Ancient Greek πολιτικά (politiká) ‘affairs of the cities’) is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status.
That covers literally anything involving a group of people doing things.
Usually the people who pop out that line mean “keep politics that are different than mine out of”.
Really depends imo. A lot of political discourse naturally falls onto the same tracks towards the same repeated talking points, automatically making the worst assumptions about what people mean, being very defensive and suspicious (or even straight hateful) of anyone not proactively signalling being part of the same group. It’s important to face it and deal with it but you may want to take muddy boots off before you come in the house.
You’re right. Apoliticism enables fascism, and should therefore be treated as a fascist dogwhistle
I’d go a step further and say “punk” is by definition political, and more specifically anti-authoritarian and non-conformist.
That said, this is a relatively new usage of the word. 100 years ago it meant nothing of the sort.
Punk is (was) almost nothing BUT politics.
Woosh moment?
Being factual. Call it wooshy if you like. Doesn’t bother me.
I love playing whoosh a lot anyway for comedy porpoises.
Those dolphins always crack me up.
The funny thing about art is that people can interpret it however they want, even in the most stupid ways. See the many idiots that thought/think Rage Against the Machine and Pink Floyd weren’t political.
It’s almost like
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN (AND HER FASCIST REGIME)
never happened.Lol, without politics punk is just playing badly.
Good for him.
Realest punk: I am a poser and I don’t care
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve always looked at punk (the music, not the ideology) as a thing that was, not is. Similar to classic rock. As in… there are no new classic rock bands. No one says, “hey. I’m forming a classic rock back and we’re writing all new material!”
Punk was The Ramones, The Dammed, The Sex Pistols. Black Flag, The Clash, Dead Kennedys, etc.
Just like how classic rock was Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, BOC, Rolling Stones, The Beatles, etc.
Again, many will probably disagree, but this is simply an opinion on the matter.
I mean, you can have whatever opinion you want but this one in particular isn’t very helpful. Lots of new bands call themselves or are called punk.
https://bandcamp.com/discover/punk
Are you going to tell them they’re doing it wrong?
You could make an argument that there is “classic punk” like “classic rock”, and maybe people would know what you meant, but that’s not really the language as it is spoken today.
Did you actually listen to any of the bands from the bandcamp link? A lot of them could not be called punk by any stretch of the imagination, but more genre tags mean a higher chance for listens.
Some extra confusion comes from the fact that “punk” doubles as the name of a movement (or perhaps an attitude) and any style of vaguely ramones-derived music. Most of the time, it’s used as no more than a nice buzzword that simply means “attitude” in a very vague sense. To exemplify, “Noone is as punk as Celine Dion!” is a sentence that both makes perfect sense (you understand what is meant) and is complete nonsense at the same time. The words “dubstep” or “zydeco” cannot be used in the same way.
Are you going to tell them they’re doing it wrong?
To be clear, is your argument that the term “punk” is completely devoid of meaning and if someone calls their music punk, it must be? That’s really not helpful at all.
My argument is there are contemporary bands that call themselves punk and are called punk by others. There are subgenres like pop punk to further clarify. One could be a cliché pedant and say like “pop punk isn’t punk” but that was an eyeroller when 30 years ago when the argument was new.
You said “a lot of them” on the search link can’t be called punk. But then some of them presumably can be. So then new punk bands exist.
Calling one’s self a punk band doesn’t make it a punk band. And again, find me a band on bandcamp that describes themselves as a classic rock back writing new material.
Why do you accept “classic rock” exists alongside “rock” but not “classic punk” alongside “punk”?
Also here’s crobot. They’re tagged as classic rock: https://crobot.bandcamp.com/album/feel-this .They do a great live show
I sense “no true Scotsman” coming, though.
Because no one calls it “classic punk.” Greed Day and Black Flag are NOT the same type of music.
Green Day is typically called pop punk. Subgenres and other categorization tools exist for good reason.
If you want to start calling things “classic punk” go ahead. People will probably know what you mean. But to be like “sorry you can’t be punk in 2023” is shitty gatekeeping.
Edit: not going to acknowledge crobot?
No.
Why not?
Punk IS not was, it always has been and always will be.
So classic rock IS, as well?
Only if you want to start circumcising mosquitos here.
Classical as a word typically refers to the period of time the Greeks were at their height.
Classical Rock uses the spirit of the word Classical to describe this era of rock and roll as the basis for modern Rock and Roll.
Now if you want to use the term classical rock to describe an era, then no that era is gone. If you want to decide that only the period of the 70s and early 80s that punk was as you describe it then SURE punk is dead.
But punk started before the 70s and will continue long after you and I are dead.
By the arbitrary definition that punk was a genre of rock music that existed only during a certain time period… sure it was and no longer is.
I simply champion the idea that labeling punk as a genre is ironic in and of itself, to say it fits in a narrow definition is also kinda ironic.
Yes, but they won’t release new music, because then it wouldn’t be classic anymore.
Same with punk. Now you get it.
Rock
punk
classic rock
classic punk
Poser alert!
I’m 51 years old, you clown. I remember these bands when most of them were still touring- and was at a Pink Floyd show as a child back in 81’. I have MANY first edition vinyls from a lot of them as well.
The fact that you came out missing so hard on such a big swing- shows how much you’ve yet to learn about talking to people you know nothing about.
Exactly what a poser would say 😎
Yeah, I looked at your comment history. You’ve one to talk kid.
Aw shucks, you noticed me :3
Hmmm classic punk huh. I feel like the genre and sound has changed so much, but I’m still amazed that the identity has kept in tact. Truly a masterpiece of sounds and art 😄
KEEP OPINIONS OUT OF EXPLICITLY OPINION-FOCUSED SOCIAL MEDIA SITES
My mistake. Should have realized who posts here and known better. This isn’t a place to share opinions.
My dude are you mad because you shared your opinion and people were like “nah man that doesn’t make sense”? So like you can share your opinion but don’t want anyone to respond with theirs?
Sounds like you’re not looking for a forum. You’re looking for a diary.
lol? Am I mad? Look at all the butthurt kids whining about how my opinion is wrong to them. They’re asking questions, I’m answering them. And you’re accusing me of being mad for doing so?
Fucking hilarious! Grow up.
You seem pretty mad. In the other branch of this post you were like “No one calls themselves classic rock anymore”. I linked you one I knew off the top of my head and you just ignored it. I asked if you were going to acknowledge it and you just said “No”
Maybe you’re not mad (you seem mad) but you’re not really engaging in good faith.
I’m not really sure what part of your comment was an opinion, but “people don’t start punk bands anymore” is simply not true. There’s plenty of new punk acts out there, the genre didn’t just come to an abrupt halt in 1990. Just off the top of my head is IDLES and The Chats, but you can find tons of recent bands if you look.
No one says, “hey. I’m forming a classic rock back and we’re writing all new material!”
Sure, but I bet a lot of young talent are saying “hey we’re forming a rock band and that girl/guy in the corner over there writes kickass lyrics.”
After that they either fail and few ever hear them play, or they succeed and a new band is born. Maybe they even eventually end up becoming legends of their own. It doesn’t happen often, but it does happen.
Now rock and punk isn’t my jam so much, because I like mellow electronic stuff, but I know of one such band that I found when COVID hit and they’re just now beginning to really break through. It’s fucking beautiful when a band finds that essence that truly defines them.
