First person: Talking about oneself. I, me. Second person: talking about the listener. you, your. Third person: talking about someone who is not the speaker or listener. He/she/it/they Fourth person: Talking about total bullshit.
In this context, “Chat” is second-person plural, used by streamers to address the portion of their audience able to respond in the text chat that always accompanies these things. It does contrast with how a radio personality might address “listeners” because radio listeners don’t usually have a method to respond in real time, so it’s usually a rhetorical question; a streamer addressing the chat is asking for a response.
Crystal clear, thanks chat.
i saw someone argue for chat being a 4th person pronoun because it breaks the 4th wall usually seen in mass broadcast media, there’s still a degree of interaction that isn’t there on live TV, so “chat is this real” prompts a direct response from a unified mass of people, there’s a conversation happening through the 4th wall basically
the other person explained it better lol
Eh, I don’t think that holds up.
I might buy the 4th person as “someone outside your continuum or reality,” but I’ve yet to see a language construct specifically for that. Fictional characters invariably use second or third person to refer to the audience outside their world.
Streamers talking with their chat audience aren’t fictional or otherworldly though. I don’t see a linguistic difference between a streamer asking the chat what game he should play next, to Bob Saget saying “Home viewers, if you have a funny home video, send the tape to the address on your screen for a chance at appearing on our show!” It’s a communique addressing a large scattered audience through audio/video telephony soliciting a reply. The only real difference is round-trip latency.
While I think the phenomenon of live streaming and their audiences is interesting and presents a fairly new experience, I don’t know if it’s “we’re inventing new pronoun tenses over here.”
it’s not my personal opinion and i can’t give it justice in trying to defend it, but i did think it was an interesting addition to the original so i (poorly) regurgitated it here
Ty! So… you all
it’s definitely 2nd person collective in its original usage and outside of its original usage it’s not a pronoun because it doesn’t replace a noun.
I don’t think it’s a pronoun at all. It’s a collective noun, and a term of address.
“Ladies and Gentlemen” is also not a pronoun.
Is it really that different than saying “Audience”? Or radio shows referring to “listeners”? Etc.
Or “y’all”
Saying “chat” to address a group or room full of people isn’t different at all from addressing them as “y’all”
All y’all more specifically
Regional differences :)
Except y’all is a second person plural, and I think ‘chat’ here is still functioning as a noun.
Or on a serial killer podcast, run by 35yo ladies, “murder muffins”
Seems like the same thing to me. I think the person saying it’s the first of its kind is wrong, but it would still be equally bizarre if people were addressing their “listeners” in normal conversation.
Lemmings, do you agree? ;)
Be sure to smash that blue arrow, and follow on Kbin.
Yeah, it would be weird to say ‘listeners’ when talking to a group. But social conventions and language shifts. “chat” has established itself for pretty obvious reasons, so I’m not surprised to see it catch on in the physical world. It’s a bit like people saying ‘lol’ in person was super weird at first, but isn’t that weird any more.
Also, I don’t think it is anywhere near as weird as how politicians address what they are saying to “Mr. Speaker” when they are clearly actually not talking to that person at all.
Ladies and Gentlemen
Friends
Guys
[To the] Saints in Ephesus
Gentlemen of the jury
Kids!
Class
Respected Members of the Lemeritus Comment Section Elle
[the] House
There are languages with a 4th person pronoun. The 3rd person is kind of the main character and the 4th someone else. That helps to disambiguate sentences like “The criminal shot the cop and drove away on his (own or the cop’s) bike”.
Or the “gay fanfiction problem”: “He looked at him and lay his hands on his lap”. Is it a happy ending or a sad one? That’s one theory why gender in pronouns is so resilient: more often than not, the gendered pronoun can disambiguate which person is talked about. It doesn’t always work, a 3rd/4rd person distinction is superior.
You can have an alternate third person pronoun I suppose in order to distinguish two third person individuals, but that doesn’t mean there’s a fourth person pronoun. The general definition is:
- first person - the speaker
- second person - the audience, whether present or not present
- third person - someone or something other than the audience
So things like “chat” and “breaking the fourth wall” are second person pronouns. There is no fourth person pronoun, because anything other than first and second is covered under third person.
I’ve looked it up and the official name is “obviative” and it is sometimes referred to as the “fourth person”.
That still sounds like a special type of third person, though I guess that’s just disagreeing about terminology.
I see why you would analyze it that way but I also see that it deserves a term in its own rights. As you said, it’s all terminology. There are no objective definitions, at least not in linguistics
Isn’t ‘chat’ essentially treated as a name, except that it refers to a group of people instead of an individual?
I think you’re right, and the pronoun for it would be the second person plural (you in English).
Yes that makes sense
Also solved by a reflexive pronoun, as in Russian
Northern Germanic languages like swedish do the same trick btw
Now that is clever. I forgot my Slavic language had this feature
Fourth pronoun was doing well, until the fifth person enters the scene.
missed opportunity to say enters the chat
It’s not even a pronoun in this context, it’s just a noun.
I usually say “smash that like button” but ill throw in “chat” in the future to stay relevant with these kids.
Smash that like button if you agree with me chat
“This pop quiz is brought to you by Raid Shadow Legends”
Its ant league now right
Not sure I agree, but I like smashing stuff, so I still upvoted.
Petition to rename ‘chat’ to ‘hulk’
My pronouns are Chat/Commentor
Nice to meet you. Mine are lurker/asleep
“Everyone”?
Dude
I’m a dude. He’s a dude. She’s a dude. We’re all dudes, hey!
It’s been a minute since I heard a line from Goodburger
The sequel is now available on Hulu. It’s worth a watch.
Did you know they recently released a sequel, I believe on Paramount+?
I’ll need to see some solid evidence and proof of this being done unironically before believing this.
Pull up that evidence, chat.
My GF works at a school, yes, this is a thing. This is the first time I’ve seen it mention outside of the time she told me tho
My uncle is the president of school and he told me that “chat” is a secret code to get a level 100 Mew.
You know YouTube links get thumbnail previews, right?
Yes, which is sort of my point, small children don’t understand irony, sarcasm, etc.
My rl name starts with Chat and I introduce myself as such most places. It’s pronounced differently though, since it’s based on a French word. The Ch has an Sh sound. And yes, I know what that sounds like…
Actually the t is silent so it’s SHA in french
SHAT would be for female cat but really means pussy
You’re welcome.
Lmao find it funny he says he knows but then doesnt know
A classic weeb, but the French version
Ah, I mentioned it’s shortened. My name is Chatoyer:
Etymology. From French chatoyant, present participle of chatoyer (“to iridesce, like a cat’s eye”), from chat (“cat”, because of the reflective qualities of a cat’s eye).
You’re talking to famous Irish scatologist Shat O’Kun right now
My name is based off the cat thing though. Chatoyer, chatoyant, chatoyancy, all based off of cats eye.
And pussy is better than how it sounds in e glish, so ty :P
I live in quebec so to me it sounds like pussy (chatte)
“chato” also means boring or annoying in portuguese.
deleted by creator
me when i’ve taken half a class of english: bro chat is 4th person 🤓
Is sis chat 5th person? Or is that misandrynistic to make sisters a higher number than brothers?
Chat: The perfect autistic pronoun
Maybe she should be more concerned that students are asking if her class is real.
I am not sure if you are being genuine or not (chat?) but in case you are the phrase is not asking if something is literally real. It’s a way to express surprise at a situation “wow this thing is really happening”.
I was being genuine, but the explanation “is this really happening?” shouldn’t seem much better from a teacher’s point of view.
Why isn’t that just 2nd person plural, like “y’all”?
It speaks to a person that isn’t physically present and just an observer. “You” typically addresses someone directly, but can be used to break the 4th wall and talk to observers. “Chat” is exclusively for breaking the 4th wall.
Nah, “chat” is talking to a specific, present group of people, and is used in lieu of writing a text chat. It’s not like a film actor speaking to the audience, who has no way of responding. Even so, any terms used in breaking the fourth wall would still be second person, ability to respond and presence aren’t a requirement here (e.g. you’d use “you” in letters, and the reader is absolutely not present).
First person = someone describing their own point of view (ex: I, me)
Second person = someone being addressed (ex: you, y’all)
Third person = someone talking about someone else (ex: they, them)
Fourth person = the point of view of a collective group (ex: we, us)
I can’t tell if you’re making a joke or not, but when I learned it “we” was first person plural. Likewise “y’all” was second person plural, etc.
