he’s got a quarter million dollars of Israeli money in his pocket. I wonder if that might warp his fucking perception.
I doubt he was exactly lovey-dovey to Palestine before he got that money.
Plus there’s that eight billion dollars he got from the UK.
You think Senator Fetterman was given eight billion dollars by the British Monarchy to side with Israel?
Yeah, I really want to hear senior Dem leadership tell the youth they’re listening to the “wrong” news sources about the Israel/Palestine conflict. /s
Is he in the pocket of AIPAC or simply never considered that support for Israel is support for genocide?
Get on the right side of history, dude.
you consider him senior dem leadership?
I agree that Congress is not on the right side of history here, but he’s not entirely wrong. Few people have nuanced views that say Israel and Hamas are bad, and instead try to oversimplify to give people a side to root for.
It’s a clusterfuck of politics, war crimes, and ancient grudges, and Palestine is stuck between.
I think there are more than a few people who feel that Israel and Hamas are both bad actors here.
Those of us who feel like both are to blame tend to be outshouted by the “I ALWAYS STAND WITH ISRAEL NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO” and the “HAMAS ARE JUST FREEDOM FIGHTERS SO ANYTHING THEY DO IS JUSTIFIED” groups. And if we speak up to point out that both groups have issues, we get attacked by both groups for not being on a side and especially for not being on their side.
One of the big problems with the Middle East is that it’s a messy situation and people like simple narratives. They don’t want to hear a hundred plus years of attacks, revenge attacks, generational trauma, etc. That’s not easy to resolve. Instead, people want to know that A is always good and B is always bad. That’s nice and simple and easy to fix. You just eliminate the bad people and all is well.
Sadly, the real world is rarely so black and white.
I feel you, I should not have to lead every criticism of Israel with a criticism of Hamas. I can criticize the fucking government. I don’t think I need to condemn terrorist that everyone knows are already terrorist.
I expect more from a fucking government than I do of Terrorists.
But if you just want to do the same stuff that they’re doing, you’re not a good guy so don’t call yourself. Don’t try to pretend to be one just admit that you are what you are, the bad guys, not every situation has good guys
The reverse is true. Every criticism of Hamas should be led with a criticism of Israel.
The Palestinians have tried every form of peaceful protest which led to them getting shot by Israel. Hamas is a reaction to Israel’s deeds. That reaction did not appear out of thin air for no reason.
Saying there are two evils in this situation is a milquetoast take. Hamas is morally gray. Israel is the only real evil party here.
No, no, they lost all of their great area when they attack a Music festival full of civilians and kidnapped and killed children.
That is 100% sold in the morally black area
There is no evidence of Hamas intentionally killing any children. There is plenty of evidence of Hamas sparing children. Almost all of the kids were likely killed by the IDF shelling the Kibbutzes.
The music festival wasn’t even supposed to be there anymore but was extended so that was just an unlucky coincidence. Hamas leadership stated that this was not planned and wasn’t their goal. Their targets were military bases.
Also there were armed soldiers at the festival with guns.
The IDF however does plans to kill children in a children’s hospital that are getting treated from having the leg blown off from the IDF bombing their house. THAT is not a coincidence. They do this with full knowledge, satalite imagery and guided missiles.
I hope you’re right, because that hasn’t been my experience.
They get downvoted or banned and tend to post less and less because of it. It’s one of those social media echo chamber things.
72% of Palestinians say the October 7th attack was justified. It’s just just a few Hamas fighters hiding among completely innocent civilians. Most of them actively want the violence to continue, just not aimed at them.
But most isn’t all, and it’s hard to blame an eight year old who has been told his whole life that his greatest calling is to sacrifice himself to kill some Jews while he sees an IDF soldier shooting out his brother’s kneecap.
There are no good guys here. I’d be happy if we reduced or stopped Israel funding. But that’s not gonna make me fly a Palestinian flag while cheering for them like a sports team.
It’s just super fucking annoying that all of our politicians are stuck in zero-sum tribal thinking, and cannot comprehend that most rational people think Hamas AND the Israeli government are complete psychos, and that the vast majority of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (specifically excluding “settlers”, who are violent, racist, theocratic, nationalist pieces of shit) are simply caught in the middle.
Weird, we only seem to meme about Israel…
I don’t use tiktok as I think it makes us dumber but I imagine the ratio is relatively similar.
How many tik toks have you seen about the long history of peace offerings Hamas has refused?
How many have you seen of Israelis dumping water down the drain to make fun of the Palestinians they don’t have any?
I’ve seen more than one and I don’t use TikTok.
Zero.
I have no idea where one would even find one but it sounds like the algorithms are working exactly as designed; exposing you to content that makes you think the worst of the other side so as to trigger your outrage and clicks.
If Mike Tyson fought a 9 year old for calling him a bitch…
Yeah, they’re both in the wrong. But post fight it wouldn’t be rational to say they’re both at equally at fault.
Especially if Mike didn’t stop with that kid and just beat up every child in the room
I get what you’re saying, but I think that analogy doesn’t really capture the gravity of what happened. Both of them have committed egregious war crimes, which means people aren’t just beat up, they’re dead. Israel has certainly committed an order of magnitude more, but I don’t think it does the victims justice to imply Israel is the big, strong adult who merely got kicked in the shins by Hamas.
I think your analogy could be improved if you changed the 9yo vs Mike Tyson to the 9yo’s adult cousin who fights Mike Tyson for the family honor but also abuses the 9yo for fun. Still doesn’t capture the gravity of the number of innocent people who have died, but it at least represents the parties involved a bit better.
Is Israel the child abuser in your scenario?
No, Hamas is the abuser in his scenario.
Palestine is the abused child then, and Israel abuses the child too
I didn’t write the metaphor. I just explained what it meant, when following the logical structure within
You can be on the side of civilians. Pretty simple actually
I agree. I don’t see other people (other than a relative few on the Fediverse) who see it that way, because they want a clear villain to defeat.
It’s a pretty simple stance to take, you know the “don’t go around killing/maiming/terrorizing/raping random civilians” stance. It shouldn’t be hard to say “treat people with respect”. No matter if they are friend, enemy, or bystander.
What if I told you there are citizens in Israel who have been hurt by the conflict
Eye for an eye. The violence has to stop somewhere. Maybe before the death toll hits a million?
Dont care, they shouldn’t be occupying someone else land
See, this is the shit. Who are the occupiers? Palestine is a remnant of the Ottoman empire. Before that it was the Byzantines or the Romans and just about every other empire in the area in human history. Before Rome , it was the Jews. Then they lost the war and were banished from the region and scattered. It’s the major reason there is NO one right answer. People going to a concert don’t deserve to be brutally raped and murdered JUST as much as people trying to survive in an open air prison don’t deserve to be indiscriminately bombed. That shit has been a dumpster fire for 3000 years, now all in the pursuit of power and clout. We can give a damn about people not in power, AKA the civilians on both sides.
See, this is the shit. Who are the occupiers?
Clearly, Israeli blood isn’t pure enough to inhabit the land, they’ll always be occupiers. /s
Judea is Jewish land.
Nope, my gods are older, and better. And they said that all lands are my lands.
You all need to get off my land.
My god beat up your gods and now your land is mine because my god said so.
where are you from?
The Bible isn’t a historical document.
What are you talking about?
Find judea on the map
It’s called Israel now, the Israelis have fought quite a few wars over this and won every time.
dem leadership
So you’re just making shit up? Fetterman ain’t leadership lmao he’s a fucking freshman, the fuck you talking about
Is he in the pocket of AIPAC or simply never considered that support for Israel is support for genocide?
if you actually fucking cared, you would find that his district is one of the biggest for Jewish populations. It is clear he is representing his continents whether you agree or not.
if you actually fucking cared, you would find that his district is one of the biggest for Jewish populations. It is clear he is representing his continents whether you agree or not.
Jewish Americans tend to be much more friendly towards the Palestinian cause than non-Jewish Americans.
Media has been warping the perception of the genocide by Israel of Palestine for more than half a century.
Tiktok is highly partial in general. So are US Senators.
He’s probably not wrong in this case though in the past the Chinese don’t push one view, they push both extremes to purposefully create division (eg they fund both BLM and proud boys)
they fund both BLM and proud boys
Where can I find more about that?
That’s just basic psyops, Russia also has a successful history of propping up opposing factions.
Fear, uncertainty, and doubt [FUD] are tools to misinform people and erode trust in their social organizations, so that a malicious actor can divide and conquer their enemy
Google works but try this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/09/28/forgotten-alliance-between-black-activists-china/
Did you guys think you tripped and ended up near to civil war by accident? 😅
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Ignores apartheid. Ignores genocide. Ignores occupation. Claims the full history isnt represented on tiktok.
Tbf Palestine also ignores that they did those things to the Jews to begin with and calls for doing it again
But it is funny to see conservative circles praising Fetty when they hated him so much a month ago
Palestinians occupied Israel and installed a two tier justice system? Palestinians have spent 70 years illegally expanding their settlements? Palestinians are committing genocide?
WOW, when did this happen?
Middle Ages
By the end if it there weren’t any Jews left
I’m sorry but the happenings of a thousand years ago do not qualify for a modern war.
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Lmao. Sure buddy. When you stop using religion to justify violence I might care about your attempt at an insult.
When you stop using religion to justify violence
What?
Never mind, my previous statement was clearly correct
“Jewish Palestinians” =/= “Israelis”.
The majority of settler occupiers in occupied Palestine are not historically from that region and have no ties to those present in the region in the 8th century. .
So Israel and non-Jewish Palestinians should be forced out?
That hardly seems like a viable solution
Lmao what?
You love to assume. Ever heard why you don’t assume? I’ll let you google it.
What else could be inferred from what you said
What about the UN? Is the OHCHR a warped perspective?
How about Reuters?
What’s the limit? Because this is just the tip of the iceberg. We’ve got then using 2000 pound bombs in civilian areas on “tunnel entrances” they have no evidence were in use by Hamas. We’ve got then bombing hospitals and showing us standard security guard equipment for the middle east in an attempt to portray a military command post. They lied about a calendar that was plainly visible on the wall.
At what point do you admit they are purging the Warsaw ghetto?
OK boomer
Ok, zoomer.
I’m ashamed to have supported him, and if nobody else will primary him I will. I’ll lose, but clearly I need to do these jobs myself. Just like every goddamn thing else.
It’s amazing how much those sentences contradict each other.
There is no way forward for palastine in which Hamas exists. If the palestinians chose to continue to fight it’s gonna end one was, with them cleansed from the land. See the Westbank with much better conditions fot the arabs because there aren’t non stop rocket attacks. Also the settlements have to stop yesterday and the land partially returned
Hamas pretty much wouldn’t exist if Israel wasn’t funding them: https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12?r=US&IR=T
And hamas certainly wouldn’t exist if the Palestinian people weren’t being murdered for their land for decades.
DaBabyAteMaDingo says Lemmy creating ‘warped’ perceptions of Israel-Hamas war
Both sides are incredibly biased and think they’re right.
The only proper stance to have on this is that Israel’s genocide of Palestinians must stop, Hamas needs to be taken out, and Netanyahu should be deposed.
Then, Israel needs to be split into a smaller section and land given back to the Palestinians.
Gaza and West Bank do not work as being surrounded by Israel. They are prisons.
The killing has to end.
At this point I’m done with the whole two state solution thing. That was bending over backwards to protect a colonial state while we all felt guilty. They squandered that. It’s time for a single state solution with full voting rights. And yes that means the end of Israel as we know it. But that’s how it went for South Africa, and Zimbabwe, and Rwanda, and countless other colonial remnants that held on too long.
Why would Hamas need to be taken out? Violent resistance to a terrorist Nazi state is not illegal.
Taking out Hamas will solve absolutely nothing as 5 other organizations will pop up in their place. The problem is only israel, not Hamas.
Israel cannot be reasoned with and the two state thing will never happen. All the israeli ministers are already screaming it from the rooftops on national TV.
it’'s like telling Hitler to peacefully live next to the Jews. Or the whites in Apartheid south Africa to just take half the land for themselves.
The problem has always been with Israel which is the bully. You are playing the teacher right now that says “you two divide the meal” when the bully beats a kid up and steals his lunch.
Hamas is a literal terrorist group that indiscriminately kills.
Romanticizing them as some kind of freedom fighters is not only reductive but plain wrong.
They are antisemitic extremist terrorists
Israel shoots unarmed protestors and says boycotting Israel is terrorism. When you refuse to allow any nonviolent resistance what do you expect will happen?
Netanyahu spent decades undermining Palestinians who actually want peace, because they get in the way of his plan to take all the land. He doesn’t want compromise. He doesn’t want any Palestinians as neighbors. His extremism creates more extremism.
Conveniently ignoring that Israel was historically the party offering a two state solution that was rejected.
The resistance wouldn’t even be necessary if Hamas leaders weren’t both extremists without an interest in their own people’s well-being and incredibly corrupt.
That being said, fuck netanyahu, too. Doesn’t make Hamas less of a terrorist group tho.
That’s historically untrue. Israel offered an unworkable solution and it was rejected. Palestinians offered another solution and it was rejected by Israel. The US offered a solution and that was rejected too. The UN offered a solution and both sides rejected it.
It’s revisionist history to put the blame solely on one side.
Hamas fully recognized Israel and got nothing in return. Gazans peacefully protested and got shot by Israeli military. They asked the UN for help and Israel called it “diplomatic terrorism” and punished them for trying. The Netanyahu government has bragged that they blocked peace plans for 17 years. Believe them when they say it.
This is false Hamas has specifically avoided targeting children and their attacks were heavily targeted around military bases.
Israel is a Terrorist group that indiscriminately kills. You seem to confuse them with each other but always keep in mind that israel is far more evil than Hamas.
Violent resistance to a terrorist Nazi state is not illegal.
Hamas’ violent resistance is directed at innocent civilians. Regardless of how you personally feel about it, Hamas are being taken out. And if 5 other orgs pop up they’ll be taken out too. Your Hamas has lost. Move on.
Lmao really that joke? You’re still on the IDF propaganda train?
Hamas attacked military bases and their targeting was pretty good with a lower than 2/3 civilian casualty to IDF terrorist kill rate.
Look at the pure numbers after all the IDF propaganda of beheaded babies and you’ll see very quickly that Hamas attack was not indiscriminate whatsoever.
Now the IDF kill numbers do clearly show that they are indiscriminately targeting civilians because the IDF is a terrorist organization only interested in genocide.
Takes a liar to spot a liar i guess
Takes a liar to spot a liar i guess
