Hey Folks!
I’ve been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here’s a 20, keep this change.
Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
Nothing has changed, and it never will, as it concerns poor and “therefore” “deserving” people. Americans’ talk is cheap.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
Agreed. So when you go to a restaurant and you have a maximum amount you can spend, divide the amount of money you have by (100% + local sales tax), then divide by (100% + the menu price), and subtract any surcharges added by the restaurant (assume $5.00 if you cannot look it up), often masquerading as a tip. I know it’s a lot of math, but you have a computer in your pocket. You’ll manage.
In my view, the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed “suckers”, from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone’s grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There’s no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.
Everything in America is ridiculously unfair. We wear this on our sleeves, and for many Americans this fact defines their personality. Unfortunately, you will have to deal with it in the short term at least.
Now if you would like to be the one to lead the charge against the tipping culture and the foisting of responsibility for servers’ compensation onto the customer, then be my guest. Refuse to tip and make a big scene about it. Make plans for how to take the inertia of your big struggle and turn it into a mass movement. I would thrilled to join you. However, I somehow doubt that you’re ready to go that far; none of the customers who stiffed me ever went on to start anti-tipping movements.
So will AITA if I don’t tip?
Yes. You are expected by all members of the public here to tip. That is our culture, something we’re proud of for some reason, and our expectation. For some servers, tips are the primary source of income at work.
Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
No, it is the responsibility of the employer. However, when no employer takes their responsibility and you sit yourself down at a restaurant, the logical conclusion is that either you pay that part of the server’s wages, or they get stiffed. You know that this is the conclusion. (Or if not, now you do.)
If you want to participate in our unique restaurant scam, you gotta accept that you’re going to get suckered into paying the server’s wages. Otherwise, don’t go to restaurants. When you go to a restaurant, you waste the employees’ finite time on this planet doing tedious, physically and mentally demanding bullshit that no sane person would choose to engage with, if not faced with the threats of homelessness and starvation. [2] At least make it worth their while.
Sorry if I come off as having a chip on my shoulder, but that’s only because I totally do. So many customers used to concern-troll me as a pizza delivery person and give me shit like “sorry, couldn’t afford to tip, they should really pay you more.” Yeah, they should, but you absolutely could have tipped; all you had to do was order one less topping. I’d love to see some actual solidarity with food service employees, but that would require challenging deep-rooted assumptions about our culture and we’re too shit-for-brains to do that. Americans are so compassionate and empathetic until the moment they actually have to lift a finger.
So when someone brings up “unfairness” or “it’s X’s responsibility to pay the workers” in response to tipping, I just kinda die a little inside from all the times those sentiments have been used against me and my colleagues.
[1] And don’t even get me started on the process of buying a car, or how the public was scammed into accepting a car-centric infrastructure.
[2] This is really a special case of the logic behind the antiwork movement: nobody actually wants to go to work. We only go to work under the threats of starvation and homelessness imposed by capitalism.
the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed “suckers”, from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone’s grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There’s no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.
What a quote. I will add that “we” also like to believe we have the most fair system. And in many ways, the “gotchas” are much more hidden and systemic than other countries. For example, you might be scammed haggling with someone in Southeast Asia, but we get scammed everyday by credit card companies making bank on every single transactions.
Solid rant. No, really, I enjoyed it til the end. Spot on!
Ribbits
That’s not how that works. If you increase minimum wage you increase living costs
While I agree with the premise that minimum wage increases raise living costs… If the tips are already increases wages, I fail to see how tipped low wages are not effectively the same as untipped higher wages.
Tips don’t go though the corporate finances usually
What does that have to do with anything? Minimum wage increases tends to lead to people having more disposable income… which leads to companies and the like charging more for services because the market can now bare it.
What does corporate finances have to do with a person making their low wages + tips vs just an up front higher wage to get to a higher minimum wage?
Because raising minimum wage causes inflation because companies have more overhead
Ribbits
Definitely tip. If you think the whole system sucks that’s fine, but don’t take out that frustration on the likely vastly underpaid employees
You enter a social compact when you enter an establishment that does tipping. When you don’t tip, you’re not making it better, your making sure someone goes hungry
if:
a. a person “has” to rely on other people to tip them
b. said person goes “hungry” if a single person/table doesn’t tip themyou… uh… have other issues to think about
Yes you need to tip if you are at a sit-down restaurant with a server taking your order at the table.
Whether or not you or anyone else agrees with that, it is the cultural norm and you would absolutely be rude not to.
If you are uncomfortable with this, choose to eat somewhere where you won’t be expected to tip. Don’t knowingly go to a restaurant where tipping is expected and then refuse to do so out of principle.
When in Rome…
I’d say yes. The situation is complex.
It’s clear that tipping culture is out of control. There are many places asking for 20% tips even when ordering from a counter where the interaction takes about 10 seconds.
Unfortunately there has also been a systematic underpayment of wages which has occurred largely on the back of tips. In some states it is even legal to pay less than minimum wage and supplement that with tips. For that reason, it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy.
Certainly the system needs to change, but as of this moment in the US, just assume everything actually costs 20% more and tip.
it’s not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy
My man you have got to shake this from your psyche, that’s exactly how the employers that aren’t paying their employees want you to feel. You’re offloading their greed and systematic exploitation of working class people onto yourself under the misplaced guise of personal guilt. There may not a way to immediately fix the problem, but I can guarantee it will never get fixed if we dont change anything.
Here, unfortunately, YTA if you don’t tip. I forgot once and had the server run after me to make sure something wasn’t wrong. Some service folks take it personally if you don’t tip, which makes sense given that their employers don’t pay them shit. So yeah, you the customer foot the bill for ensuring these people can make ends meet… as if giving the restaurant your custom wasn’t support enough.
The problem is that, like most other industries here in the US, the system is rigged against the working class. While not all restaurant owners intend to fuck over their staff (especially smaller, local places), it’s how it works. Now, some places will automatically add gratuity to your bill under certain conditions, so check your breakdown to ensure it’s not already included. This is becoming more common, which irritates me since I scale my tip based on the quality of the service rendered.
Also, we know it’s expensive here. Don’t bother coming here to complain about it, we do it enough ourselves. Tipping is here to stay for now and I don’t imagine it changing for quite some time.
Just to add onto this good answer, you are really only expected to tip for sit-down restaurants with service and bars.
For takeout, cafes, fast food, etc., you don’t need to tip. A lot of places these have payment machines that just ask if you want to tip by default. You can safely hit “No tip” on these if you don’t want to.
Ostensibly it’s just to replace the tip jar for those who don’t use cash, but the prompt appearing every time you pay by card has convinced a lot of people that tipping is what you’re supposed to do in those situations, when in reality you have no obligation to.
Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.
To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That’s why you have to tip.
This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.
If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you’re standing there, those workers aren’t making 2.13/hr.
Not true, restuarants have to make up the difference in their wage if they dont make enough in tips.
Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.
Do you tip the Walmart Greeter? Why or why not?
You should take a look at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage and see what the minimum wage is in the state you are visiting. The minimum wage where I am is one of the highest in the nation so I don’t tip anymore.
Edit: I am aware many states have below federal minimum for tipped employees. My point was if they’re visiting one of the states with a high minimum wage, they should forgo tipping. Nobody below bothered to link it, but here’s the minimum wage page for tipped employees: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped. It’s worth noting that even in the states that can pay tipped employee as little as $2.13/hr, the employees never actually make less than the federal minimum of $7.25/hr because the employer has to make up the difference if the employee doesn’t make enough in tips, not that $7.25/hr is even remotely a livable wage in 2023…
Regardless, tipping is an inherently flawed system, and it’s not the responsibility of the consumer to pay specifically the server a living wage while everyone in the kitchen suffers (I would know, I’ve been there). If you’re not happy with the wage laws in your state, get involved in politics and exercise your right to vote to do something about it.
Most states in the US have separate lower minimum wages for tipped workers, with a federal minimum of $2.13/hour.
Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn’t exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don’t tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don’t tip.
It’s a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don’t participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it’s really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)
Edit: oh, and then “suggested tip” went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the “suggested tip” says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.
There’s been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn’t yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
I know I’m likely misrepresenting, but that’s the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.
“I could do profit sharing and have all my employees benefit from busting their ass, or I could pay them next to nothing and force the customers to supplement their income out of respect or pity.”
It shouldn’t shock anyone that the practice of tipping has a racist history.
Please continue to tip service workers.
Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
A lot of employees want this as well. Those who do well in well traveled restaurants or bars then to make WELL over the minimum wage. This is why the employees get mad at the patron/client rather than their employer when they don’t get a tip. It works… it’s what many of them want.
The sad part is that prices for things have already been going up considerably… So what was a $5 tip @ 10% years ago is now closer to $20 tip @ 20% today for the same meals/amount of food. It isn’t a 2x increase at all… Since it’s % based on subtotal and those costs have been going up… it’s significantly more if you follow their “minimum” percent tips.
I follow something similar to Dandroid and refuse to change. I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food. If I get shit service, you’re not getting a tip. If it’s basic service, you’ll get 10%… 15% for “good”… 20% for outstanding. Although looking at the laws in my state, I’m debating on cutting it back considerably. Minimum wage in my state is not the $3.and change per hour for those positions. It’s just about $11 and the normal minimum wage is $13 and change. So if I’m the only table in their whole section, and I tip 2$ per hour, they’re making minimum wage. And people here still complain about the tipping… The only explanation is greed… and I can’t stand that at all.
As I recall, restaurants can get by with giving workers well below minimum wage because of tips.EDIT: I just re-read your post
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
This is a great resource when these discussions come up. Many states do NOT adhere to the $2.13 tipped wage.
In my state (AZ) it’s $10.85. People here still complain about tips. The minimum wage here is $13.85. The $3 difference is nearly guaranteed as long as long as you have 1 table an hour. Forget that the normal where I live is probably closer to 3-4 every hour. [I recognize that other areas may not have such traffic. But I can only comment on what I observe]
If the average table is leaving ~$5 in tips… you could easily make $30 an hour in wages.
This is why I say what I say… It’s absurd when I hear local news or something complaining. $30/hr is stupid “livable”.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
ABSOLUTELY NOT Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. It is and should be employers job to pay their workers a living wage in a rich country not the buyers.
Culturally, there will be people who will look down on or say nasty things to you if they find out you do not/did not tip. This happened to me. Some of the nasty comments (these are not said by the employees) people say are "The employees will remember this and may spit in your food or tamper with it in some way next time you order, which has got to be illegal for health code reasons for employees to do and is guilt tripping on the person who says this comment. Not only that, but those who say such awful things are continuing the nasty treatment of employees by the ruling class by saying such nasty remarks.
With all that said, until things change, for sake of the underpaid employees, please tip just know you don’t have too. If they treat you kindly and respectfully, tip, if not, smallest tip possible.
If it should be the employers job to pay a living wage, why would you take it out on the employee? Most establishments in the US pay waitstaff way under minimum wage ($2-$3 per hour). If you don’t tip your waiter at an establishment like this, you are basically denying that waiter their wage, and it has no effect on the employers bottom line. You should be prepared to tip, otherwise don’t go at all.
And for the record, I agree with your first statement: the owners should be paying their employees a living wage. Tipping as a practice should be largely eliminated. However not tipping doesn’t help that situation, it just hurts the employee. If you want it to change you should boycott restaurants that do this and be an advocate for fair wage laws.
Please reread my post. Where did i say don’t tip?
It is strongly implied until the last paragraph, where you advocate tipping as little as possible if you don’t like their attitude. Horrible, cruel take.
So i should tip someone who is very rude or treats my spouce/partner badly? I didn’t say “no tip”, did i?
Yes. Unless there’s clearly bigotry of some kind behind the behavior, yes. You never know what someone might be dealing with. They could have been denied that day off to attend a funeral for a family member (which absolutely happens in that industry), or they could just be completely burned out and unable to perform the emotional labor and / or masking to appear kind and respectful any more. I’ve been there personally. I’ve also had situations where guests thought I was being rude, when there was just a culture difference and I was trying to communicate. I’ve almost lost my job because I wouldn’t give a customer free product. My “no” was interpreted as rude because I was completely burned out from working 12+ hours straight that day, with no overtime pay, and just couldn’t fake a smile anymore. As a result, unless someone is being openly homophobic, etc, I never tip less than 20%, because my feelings and read on the situation shouldn’t impact someone’s ability to feed themselves.
The fact that you truly believe this is a great example of how bad tipping culture, and work culture has gotten in the US. It’s as if the word “tip” has been completely redefined to mean “compulsory tax on services”. Based on your post, I wouldn’t be surprised if a good portion of youth today legitimately believe that to be the definition.
What if I told you that all the distress you’re directing toward low/non tippers should be directed at your employer who isn’t paying you properly, is over working you, and doesn’t have your back in the face of shitty customers demanding free stuff? Instead of getting upset about people who rightfully reject a bullshit tipping culture, go unionize. That’s literally what they’re for. Force your employer to treat you like a human being, don’t let them pit you and the customers against each other while they laugh all the way to the bank.
You make some big assumptions about my politics here. Believe me, I’ve got plenty of ‘distress’ for employers. None of this changes the fact that if you know that service workers are grievously exploited and you choose to have them wait on you while not compensating them, then you are also committing an immoral act. You and the employer then have something in common: you both know that the worker ought to be compensated fairly for their work, and you’re both refusing to do it.
Am I absolved of sin when buying clothing that I know is produced in a sweatshop because ‘well, the employer really ought to improve working conditions, but that’s not my problem’?
The employer first exploited the worker, then you went in, benefited from their labor for free, directly reducing their income, supporting the business that exploits them while not supporting the worker, and somehow, your hands are clean?
You could choose to simply not give businesses who don’t fairly compensate their workers your money, but instead, you give them the cost of your dinner and reduce your server’s hourly wage?
If people want to reject tipping culture, they need to reject businesses that practice it, not fund them.
My view is: I don’t like this cultural element, and I am glad that I live in a country without it. But if I am a visitor from abroad I would not resist the local culture and try to impose my own values. If I am aware of this cultural element and I dislike it, my options would be to either avoid restaurants and other tipping situations as much as I can, or simply account for the tip when making my financial decisions, and pay it.
If I live in the country then it is different, because then I am more entitled to be a driver of change. Personally, my approach would be to support businesses with explicit no-tipping policy, and to refuse receiving tips myself.
No one can force to tip and as Americans we hate the tipping culture too.
Some people love it, namely the ones that have most to gain.
So business owners, and extremely attractive waitstaff
Yes, it does make you the asshole, especially because you know that’s what we do here and why we do it. Until living wage laws are passed, it’s not going to change.
In all honesty, I will probably just tip the minimum amount and try not to let it get to me. Its not like I’ll be out eating by myself anyway, there will be plenty of social pressure to help me along :)
But imagine if all jobs worked this way. Oh, you wanted a good outcome for your surgery? Maybe you should have tipped your surgeon! Oh, you wanted your taxes done correctly? Should have tipped! Sorry boss, I would have gotten you that report on time, but you forgot to leave me a tip!
I also think its silly that tips are based on the price of your meal, as if that has anything to do with the service whatsoever. So the person who ordered a steak pays more in a tip than the person who ordered a salad? Why? It would make way more sense to tip based on time spent in the establishment. I would understand a standard 5$ tip per half-hour or something way more.
Here’s the thing. There are now tips added to all sorts of checkouts. And it’s muddier than ever.
As an American I don’t tip shit unless it’s a full service restaurant. Aka they are refilling my drinks for me.
If I’m getting a sandwich at a sandwich line where you stand in line and call out what ingrediants you want and take it to go, I don’t tip. If I’m just getting a coffee black, I’m not tipping. Etc etc.
The checkouts now though ask for tips on all sorts of stuff. I increasingly refuse to tip for things like self service places, takeout, etc.
Yes, you do have to tip. Maybe not if it’s Chipotle or a place like that. But if someone is waiting your table you have to tip. Yes tipping culture is stupid. No, nothing has changed in the US. They do not have a living without tips, so refusing to tip cuts into their living expenses after they have courteously served you your food. It’s rude
trouble is that by tipping you are enforcing tipping culture, giving the employers an excuse to underpay. You can’t win…
