Why you should know: StackOverflow is facing a mod strike in a similar way as Reddit’s mod strike. They are doing this in response to StackOverflow’s failure to address it’s promises and provide moderation tools
Unlike Reddit, Stack Overflow would probably be better without moderators.
In fact, you could easily replace Stack Overflow mods with a script that goes into every new question, comments “USE THE FUCKING SEARCH BAR” and locks the thread.
I don’t think so: Stack Overflow requires much more moderation for the comments and answers to actually stay on topic and be somewhat professional. Especially the “don’t just link somewhere, explain the thing” rule might require a lot of moderation.
People on stack overflow explain things?
Seriously. Someone could be asking a relatively basic question, and you can guarantee the first comment on almost every programming-related post is going to be something along the lines of “I don’t understand what your asking, can you provide additional context? What were you doing when the issue occured? Were any planets in alignment? Can you detail approximately what time the issue occured using a 3rd Age Mesopotamian Lunisolar Calendar?”
Moderation will probably be done by AI in the future. It’s probably just a bit too expensive still.
Why is this being downvoted? This dystopian nightmare future is very likely going to happen.
Replace them with a script that goes into every comment and put “duplicate of existing post”.
Even if there is no existing post.
Or there is but it was ages ago, had no decent answers and all information in it has become outdated.
There is at least one existing post for each post.
if this aint the god damn truth lol
NGL - I lolled
Duplicated, here’s a link to a totally unrelated question made 10 years ago that didn’t got any answer anyway.
OMG these responses drive me bananas. I’m searching for a code solution and I keep landing on “Duplicated” dead ends with dead end links posted as the solution. Why do they leave it just sitting there?? WHY???
The answer is to use jQuery. Always jQuery.
What’s jQuery? I tried googling it and skimmed the Wikipedia, but I don’t get it.
jQuery is a JavaScript* library that played a really important role in adding interactivity to websites and doing so in a way that works across browsers. Its capabilities were fantastic for its day, but newer iterations of JavaScript and subsequent frameworks and libraries (such as Angular, Vue, Svelte, and React) generally provide the same capabilities in a form that is easier to work with. Most new sites use those newer tools, but jQuery was one of the key technologies behind the kind of interactive websites from the mid-2000s until the mid-2010s (essentially the heyday of Web 2.0 (RIP)), and is still used in websites from that era that haven’t needed huge overhauls since then.
- JavaScript is the main programming language used to add interactivity to websites (plus a bunch more that’s beyond the scope of this).
Thankfully SO is better than Reddit: the frontend is actually decent and even though they’re pausing data dumps, everything posted is technically CC-SA
I really hope protesting social media/websites owner’s BS becomes a regular practice
I agree, but on the other hand if we moved to decentralized platforms no strikes would be necessary. People only do this, because a company is holding their content as a hostage.
Striking will just be replaced with defederation. For example lemmy.world has been defederated by a bunch of instances because it allows anyone to sign up for an account.
If stackoverflow was a Lemmy instance, I think people would just host a new one and move there?
Some people might do that. But lemmy.world is a very well run community that has never done anything offensive, and yet it’s still defederated by some of the biggest lemmy instances.
That proves defederation is for more than just spam/illegal content/harassment. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it’s pretty disruptive. Like a strike.
I thought only beehaw.org defederated it?
Yeah, they’re the one that makes you answer 3 vague open end questions and then manually approve it.
If you don’t write enough, or write something they dont agree with… You dont get denied, it’s just like it’s still pending indefinitely.
Lemmy.world requires a valid email instead (something beehaw doesn’t).
There’s no right or wrong way to go about it. Which is the biggest benefit of Lemmy. Somewhere out there, there’s an instance being ran like how you want, if not, just make your own.
But that is exactly the problem with the federated media… there is no one place to find something - there is thousands of places to find thousands of different things. You don’t get that one wonderful resource where you can come and expect that no matter how niche your question or hobby is you can always find someone who can relate or help you… you are left wandering from place to place searching, always wondering if there is the right community for you somewhere or perhaps you should just start a new one.
Youtube needs a lot of creator strikes to get back to the way it used to be!
While I agree, I think this is unlikely because unlike Reddit and StackOverflow modding, YouTube content creators rely on YouTube for their livelihoods.
And this is of course because youtube actually pays its creators. Youtube is a far more just platform and is nothing like the social media sites that rely on free labour.
That should give them more incentive to want to move to the fediverse. I’m sure many youtubers can afford to host their own PeerTube instance.
But then they’d have to coordinate directly with advertisers.
The biggest can probably do that, but not 99.9% of content creators.
Instead of hoping that the corporation will change, they should just move to the fediverse.
good for them. Organizing and taking action is the only way to get capitalists to listen
Thank you for posting this. I had no idea this was going on. What are companies thinking when they implement policies that hamper volunteers? You’d think they’d want to engage, and keep happy, these people that give their time.
Companies don’t even care beyond bare minimum for the labor that they pay why would they care about the labor they don’t lol
deleted by creator
💀
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Check out Codidact for a community run alternative!
Dammit it’s AI again. What can I say. It’s been causing more destruction of things I care about, and all I see from AI is scams and impersonations.
Unpopular opinion: for a beginner, ChatGPT gives way better answers than stackoverflow users. The advantage of ChatGPT is that I can command it to dumb it down. Stackoverflow users are used to answer in a language that resembles the language in documentations. They are dry, abstract, lack good examples to the point that the “foobar” shit triggers an immediate defensive reaction in my brain and are phrased for people who already understood a concept but need to refresh their knowledge. Their core problem, as is tradition in any IT field, is that they lack the empathy to understand the viewpoint of someone who understands less of something than they do. It’s like asking someone to teach you reading and getting a poem with the advice to just read it as an answer.
I can circumvent that via ChatGPT by asking it to ELI5. Also, I get an answer instantly, am not discouraged to ask further questions and not advised to read a link where a solution is offered in an equally difficult language.
People are saying that using ChatGPT doesn’t give accurate information and fails to convey important concepts, but I feel it’s actually the other way around. Since there is ChatGPT, I’m making way more progress than before.
I understand that users don’t want AI answers, but I also don’t get why anyone would want that on this platform. You can just, you know, use AI directly.
That’s not unpopular. But there is a problem. ChatGPT can answer your questions mostly because it was trained on the posts and answers of sites like StackOverflow.
If people abandon SO and similar forums then the quality of ChatGPTs answers will go down too.
Especially with something like programming. It’s always changing. Next year there will be new versions of C++ and python. There will be new JS frameworks as always. It doesn’t stand still.
And without new discussions about new problems, there’s nowhere for ChatGPT to learn about them.
Haven’t though about that, you’re right.
I played around with ChatGPT for programming for a few hours a while back.
It is far better at explaining code in plain language than pretty much any human I’ve seen, atleast online. It’s absolute dogshit st writing anything but the most basic of code, but it does do a good job explaining.
Programmers are shit at communicating.
I’ve found that it gives me a decent skeleton of something that I can then apply to my actual problem, but not much more, and it usually comes with some pretty big mistakes. I was trying to learn Z80 assembly and it gave me a good idea of how my code should generally look, but I did end up having to rewrite a whole bunch of it before I could actually execute anything.
I think that one issue with using AI to help you solve programming problems is that sometimes it will wholesale make things up. Of course, people can do that too, which is why communities of coders can vote on the best answer. I say, more power to you, using the tools that work for you. Just be cautious.
The key with ChatGPT for me has been taken use it as an augmentation, not a gap fill. There’s some prerequisite knowledge required on my part. It’s a much more useful tool when it’s helping flesh out something I know, but have forgotten, or am familiar with, but not proficient. That means I find mistakes faster, and am less prone to having it loop or hallucinate. If I need to ask a question about something where I know very little or nothing at all, I’ll peek at a Wikipedia page or something first if I can.
Here to echo the same. I thought using AI to assist me in coding would just make me lazy and learn nothing, but turns out I actually learn more than ever since it’s much faster, more polite and patient, and the semantics are usually more catered to my needs and self explanatory than the average answers I find elsewhere.
It’s great for writing snippets and creating basic frameworks. However, it definitely makes a lot of mistakes which I doubt a total beginner can spot, especially if the error lies in logic and not syntax.
Works great only as a tool for now, but chances are AI will probably surpass human coders sooner than we think.
I’m using Bing AI, but that itself uses ChatGPT. The answers are well written, but I feel like it’s important to keep in mind that language models, by design, lie often and do it in an extremely plausible way. Use AI all you want, but never rely on its answer without proper fact-checking.
While I have no issues with the use of ChatGPT as an asist, from my understanding of the system as well as from some examples of using it, I would be very hesitant to say a beginner should use ChatGPT. While ChatGPT has given me some great starting points in a couple projects, I have also encountered a few instances where the code output was… not totally optimal at best, or wrong at worst. It also varies in quality from language to language (usually based on that languages over all popularity at the time the model was trained).
I suppose all of the above could hold true when it comes to getting your info from SO or any other social media source, but I would still highly suggest not relying on ChatGPT or AI systems until one has a intermediate or better grasp of the language.
Totally my opinion, though.
I’ve yet to get a useful answer out of chatgpt for a technical question. It’s good for fluffing up emails, but I haven’t been super impressed with any use case I’ve tried for it.
When I’ve used it for decently complex programming questions I’ve found it often likes to make up functions and libraries. It’ll be like just use this reasonable sounding function from this library, and I look it up and the library does not have that functionality at all. Over and over!
Well it’s a large language model that generates text probabilistically. It’s trained on vast amounts of data, so it’s expert at sounding like a skilled programmer, but there’s absolutely no reason at all for the results to be useful code. It will sound like useful code and look like useful code, and it will be on the right topic, and that might well be enough, but it might not.
I think that one issue with using AI to help you solve programming problems is that sometimes it will wholesale make things up. Of course, people can do that too, which is why communities of coders can vote on the best answer. I say, more power to you, using the tools that work for you. Just be cautious.
ChatGPT is incredible for middle ground developers like myself. I understand the goal I’m trying to achieve, and I understand the general process of how to do it. I can ask very granular, specific questions to ChatGPT and it will spit out some code that will get me close to what I need.
If I was a complete novice, I think ChatGPT would make me too dependent on using it for answers.
That seems like a totally valid use case. I occasionally will outline some very specific requirements and have AI generate the code, which just saves a lot of time typing, versus it generating it entirely on its own. And I still go through all the code and verify that it’s good. It’s just a tool that can be used to make your job easier.
Totally. The other day I had to test a csv/xls upload tool. I wanted to make sure that no matter what configuration an asshole user had for phone numbers, it would strip everything out so it would be a valid integer for my database.
I told chatgpt to make me a csv with 20 rows, 6 columns with xyz headers, and to give me an assortment of different phone number formats. Took 10 seconds.
You’re storing phone numbers as integers?
OOooooooohhh that’s a great use case. Get it to generate data!
Someone should work on a LemmyOverflow UI for Lemmy
Fun fact: the stack exchange for research mathematics, MathOverflow, is a separate 501©(3) nonprofit which at any time can pack up their stuff and migrate, including their domain name and all of their data, per the agreement they made when they joined the stack exchange network in 2013, originally operating the site themselves since 2009.
https://meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/969/who-owns-mathoverflow/970#970
While the MathOverflow site is operated by Stack Exchange, Inc., the domain and the MathOverflow name are owned by the MathOverflow corporation. The MathOverflow corporation is completely independent from Stack Exchange and its mission is to ensure the continued operation of the site in a manner that meets the needs and expectations of the community.
Subject to Section 8, should MathOverflow wish to migrate its data outside of the Stack Exchange network, Stack Exchange shall, within thirty (30) days of receipt of a written request from MathOverflow, provide MathOverflow with a complete and current database that contains all the data necessary to recreate MathOverflow on MathOverflow’s own servers and software. Following such transfer, Stack Exchange will cease all use of the MathOverflow database.
If they don’t like how the site is being run, they can leave. Food for thought. If all communities on the internet were so careful and prescient to plan an exit strategy in advance, to make clear that you just operate our site and we can leave for a competitor, we’d not be in this mess.
I never got any help asking questions there anyways. Answers I got back we’re trollish. When I provide and answer it can’t be the answer as it’s based on your own reputation score which you can’t get but answering questions. It seems like a flawed system. Didn’t know they had mods either. Never really got any solutions either from stack overflow, unless you read every comment for the right answer.
So…was the strike because they put a 100-strike limit on moderators marking normal questions as Duplicate/Opinionated/Unclear? Or, because all of the normal users left and it’s just spam trolls left behind?
Ahhh, it’s because of divisions of opinion on AI. No doubt, it’d be easy to tell ChatGPT “ChatGPT, can you come up with excuses to lock all the questions on the front page so my query about Scala stays up top?”
I’m constantly baffled by my coding professor suggesting stackoverflow to students for asking questions because of the experience I am seeing others have there. The new ones are always downvoted and the only reply usually just calls the person stupid. I’d just kinda accepted that this was the culture I was going to matriculate into when I graduate.
I once handed in a citation from an answer to my Stack Overflow question.
Something along the lines of… “After hitting a roadblock the community at Stack Overflow was consulted, as suggested in the lecture, and deemed the task not feasible [1].”
The answer I put in the reference was one of the many variants of “Who in their right mind would do this in Matlab? Use Python instead.”
I passed lol.
Removed by mod
It was good when it was relatively new. The culture quickly turned toxic, as you’re seeing, and it’s been getting steadily worse for years now. There is a lot of useful information, and often the only thing online with code examples for a certain programming issue. but it is also increasingly outdated, in part due to the ‘no repeat questions’ thing. I have a couple popular answers about PHP and JavaScript from over 12 years ago, and they still get upvoted. Some people comment and say “this is answer is incorrect!” and… yeah, it’s from 2009.
I want to strike. Anybody want to strike with me?
You can go march in solidarity with anyone who might be striking in your region! You don’t have to be an employee to join the picket line. I went and picketed with some of my fellow nurses in Massachusetts a couple years ago even though I wasn’t personally on strike.
