• deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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    1 year ago

    Pretty clearly shows why there’s no future for nuclear power.

    Even for filling gaps in renewables, peaker plants are getting cheaper and don’t take 15 years to build.

    • monobot@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      And it is always a question how they calculated handling of nuclear waste.

      There are options, we can use coal and natural gas for on demand power to fill the gaps in renewables, we don’t have to quit all at once. New ideas for energy storage and comming around, some of them might be useful for small towns, others for remote places.

      • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        nuclear waste, by definition of being radioactive, is the only wast that goes away on it’s own if you leave it sit for long enough

        • Knusper@feddit.deOP
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          1 year ago

          I was considering whether this is just a shitpost, but your other comments suggest that you’re completely serious. It does not go away. Radioactive decay causes multiple transitions between radioactive elements until it ends up as lead, which does not decay further.

          Of course, it should also be said that it’s better to have no waste than waste that eventually turns into lead.
          And that it’s still better to have waste than waste which also happens to be toxic.

          • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            right, but when it lands at lead it’s no longer radioactive waste, which is the part everyone’s scared of. chemical waste doesn’t just go away like that.

    • usrtrv@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I think that’s too simplistic of a view. Part of the high cost of nuclear is because of the somewhat niche use. As with everything, economies of scale makes things cheaper. Supporting one nuclear plant with specialized labor, parts, fuel, etc is much more expensive then supporting 100 plants, per Watt.

      I can’t say more plants would drastically reduce costs. But it would definitely help.

          • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            big oil pushes this stuff, by the way. because they know the reality that when nuclear plants get shut down, natural gas replaces it

      • Knusper@feddit.deOP
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        1 year ago

        The source article actually talks about this and measured data suggests nuclear cost actually went up, despite more capacity being built.

        This is the first time, I’ve read this anywhere. More sources/studies would be really important. And there is lots of interpretations to be had on the why, but assuming the article isn’t completely off the mark, that’s cold, hard data suggesting that your (perfectly reasonable) assumption is actually wrong, after all.

        • usrtrv@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Interesting, I’ll have to look at the source article.

          But as far as I’m aware the total amount of nuclear power has been decreasing in recent years. This might change with China’s future plants.

          I’ve also read about small modular reactor designs gaining traction, which would help alleviate the heavy costs of one off plants we currently design and build.

          Not saying the source is wrong, just saying that’s what I used to form my opinion.

        • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          bullshit regulatory costs can increase infinitely without nay change to the underlying engineering or economics. that’s 100% the cause of the price increses

          • Knusper@feddit.deOP
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            1 year ago

            Possible. But well, whether these regulations actually are bullshit or not, kind of doesn’t matter. A dumb solar panel won’t ever need to be regulated as much. If that’s what makes it cheaper, it still is cheaper.

    • Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      This is always a weird take to me because it always ignores the fact that nuclear has been screwed continuously for decades. If any other tecbology, renewable energy or not, had the same public and private blockers did it would also have no future.

      • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Nuclear has been screwed by its own track record.

        Why do you think its had such a wide coalition of public and private opponents?

              • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                1 year ago

                Actually I do. I was a nuclear booster in the 1990’s because it means cheap limitless pollution free power.

                Except that they don’t actually deliver on that promise. You can have safe nuclear or cheap nuclear, but if it’s safe it’s not cheap, and the public rightfully won’t accept something that can require evacuating hundreds of square miles for decades.

                So wise one, where are those cheap safe nuclear power plants we keep hearing about since 1950?

                • moomoomoo309@programming.dev
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                  1 year ago

                  In France. They standardized the designs so each one isn’t a one-off and they trained more people to work in the field.

                  • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    indeed. just order like 100 SMRs and all the problems go away. problem is the psychos would rather build gas plants and fund dictators

                  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                    1 year ago

                    Those are not at all cheap and are subsidized by enrichment for weapons purposes.

                    France is trying to extend their service lifetime beyond what they were designed for because they can’t face the bill to replace them with newer reactors.

                • Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  So the user above me actually gave the the answer so kudos to them but to further answer your question, there are no actually cheap reactors because the fight to actually build one is so insanely expensive. Where I live they’d been trying to build a reactor for over a decade. Constant lawsuits and legal battles after already obtaining permits and everything. Its ballooned the cost by tenfold. Why? Because of constant NGO pressure from the likes of greenpeace. So congrats, you win. They aren’t cheap cause of the hell we’ve made for ourselves.

                  • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    high speed rail and subways have the same problem. it’s not inherently expensive, rich people sue and sue until it’s too expensive

                  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz
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                    1 year ago

                    You’re blaming everyone else for nuclear’s failures.

                    Why are even French nuclear plants badly over budget and late? Answer: Nuclear is expensive as fuck.

        • 𝒍𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒏𝒏@lemmy.one
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          1 year ago

          Has there been a scenario where the technology itself is to blame? The contamination aspect of nuclear waste is well known and preventable, if costs are being cut on radioactive waste disposal (or in the case of a certain Japanese power company, ignoring warnings from the government on how to reduce ocean contamination in the event of an earthquake) a nuclear installation’s fate is sealed…

          As far as I can see, the only downsides with nuclear IMO is that it takes multiple decades to decommission a single plant, the environmental impact on that plant’s land in the interim, and the initial cost to build the plant.

          In comparison to Solar it sounds awful, but before solar, nuclear honestly would have made a lot of sense. I think it may even still be worth it in places that have a high demand for constant power generation, since Solar only generates while the sun’s about, and then you’re looking at overnight energy storage with lithium-based batteries, which have their own environmental and humanitarian challenges

            • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              yeah you can do throium, and there are some compelling reasons to, but uranium is fine enough. anti-nuke isn’t about actual technical enlargements. the anti nukes hate nuclear fusion too

        • Uranium3006@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          you mean the part where it generated a shit ton of carbon free reliable power while killing fewer people per watt-hour what any other method? with outdated 60’s technology too? yeah sure sounds like a failure