Every tankless I’ve used has been a piece of crap. Constantly breaking down. Heat surging and going cold in the shower. Outright just not heating water. All within 2 years of install. Never again. Tanks only for me from now on.
I ended up getting 2 hot water tanks and putting them in series. Endless hot water doing it that way. I’ve also plumbed it so that if one fails I can adjust a few valves and run on one tank until I can fix/replace the other.
I should note, I live 160km from the nearest city so I can’t just call a guy out to fix things.
Couldn’t you have just run it in parallel and have a T split with valves on the intake and output? In order to drain a side for repairs you could just close the working side off and void it normally. In series just seems like a weird choice to me.
I talked to a plumber and it’s what he recommended. I decided to not to question someone with far more experience than me. Your solution would probably work too.
As a Dutch person I’ve never seen a water heating system with a tank like in the US, we all use boilers and they are fantastic. Boilers are harder to use in “big” homes though.
You haven’t been to Europe then. I have a boiler in my basement which delivers hot water for two bathrooms and a kitchen as long as I want with constant temperature and never breaking down. That’s not even something special just the standard.
If you live in an area with hard water, you are suppose to descale the heater at least once every year by flushing the system with some citric acid solution, otherwise you may get irregular hot water flow.
That’s amazing. I mean, I haven’t seen/heard of a tanked hotwater heater in my country in decades, outside of increasingly infrequent rooftop solar heated tanks.
We’ve got instant gas, but I suppose most are electric now. Been running for decades with only needing to be adjusted between summer and winter temps sometimes.
Tanks are just… Useless. Takes up space with no benefit. Tanks use more power or gas. They fail more often (despite your personal experience).
If your tankless system is lasting less than 20 years, you’re doing something wrong. If your tankless isn’t giving steady water temp nonstop, you’re doing something wrong. I mean, those are two of the main benefits they have over tanks. That, and cheaper to run.
Their only advantage is they’re cheap to buy and cheap to install.
It’s the cheap boots issue.
You save money up front and so you waste money long term.
Dang that sucks. My house came with some kind of Rinnai unit and it’s worked pretty well. I clean it out with a special chemical wash every year or two and it’s been great. Every now and then it decides it doesn’t want to go, but I just unplug and plug it in and it’s good for the next few months.
I’d rather be able to shower with no power tbh…specifically opted for at.ospheric for that reason. Much cheaper to buy upfront and works in the event of big storms etc… tankless can suck my dirty nuts but I see the appeal, kinda…
Not if it’s a tank system. They can, but they don’t have to, since the pilot stays lit all the time. A tankless system has to use some power since it cycles every time you use it.
In a basement, the waste water is pumped up into the sewer drain. No electricity means that pump doesn’t work, the ejector pump pit fills up and floods the basement. If you have a shower in the basement, you likely also have a toilet in the basement, so when that pit floods, it’s “not a good time.”
Yes, it’s like a regular sump pump, except it’s got a large intake and a grinder.
I can see where in older neighborhoods, more urban, where the sewer system existed before the residential, that sewer would still be lower than basements. Or maybe when the residential is much nearer to the water treatment facility, and it’s at the lower end of its slope to get there. New subdivisions on what used to be farmland, way away from water treatment, I’m sure they don’t dig the sewers as deep, and do ejector and sump pumps in the basements.
I can also disconnect from the main and have hot water. Not sure what a water heater has anything to do with pumping the basement waste water out to the city/septic tank.
It’s definitely not specific to my area. Septic tanks are common around the world, for example.
So… Shower with no power. Instant gas heaters are the best option. Cheap to run, steady temp, no electricity needed.
Well, once in one place I rented I had to change the 9v battery that was used to light/spark it, but otherwise, no electricity needed at all.
Don’t have household gas? Just connect it to a gas bbq bottle. For me, I had to swap it every month, but for a family, I’d probably get a bigger canister. They’re all fairly cheap to refill-swap.
I mean, it was just a common off the shelf unit, wasn’t anything special, but I don’t live there anymore. I can msg the landlord to get a photo or something of the model number if you want to buy one?
I mean, what does it need power - beyond the 9v battery for the starter - for?
And as for propane, why not? That’s what they’re designed and built for. You’re weird.
Inducer motor for starters. This blows hot gasses outside. Circuit boards need power, the switches and relays on the boards. There’s programming and timings that are on the boards. Most models now also have wifi modules too.
At that point you should just get a tankless and never have your shower cry sessions interrupted by cold water again.
But the cold is where I want my emotional state to end up.
[insert Linkin Park’s “Crawling”]
Every tankless I’ve used has been a piece of crap. Constantly breaking down. Heat surging and going cold in the shower. Outright just not heating water. All within 2 years of install. Never again. Tanks only for me from now on.
That just killed one of my personal goals, thanks.
I ended up getting 2 hot water tanks and putting them in series. Endless hot water doing it that way. I’ve also plumbed it so that if one fails I can adjust a few valves and run on one tank until I can fix/replace the other.
I should note, I live 160km from the nearest city so I can’t just call a guy out to fix things.
Couldn’t you have just run it in parallel and have a T split with valves on the intake and output? In order to drain a side for repairs you could just close the working side off and void it normally. In series just seems like a weird choice to me.
I talked to a plumber and it’s what he recommended. I decided to not to question someone with far more experience than me. Your solution would probably work too.
Yeah, series sounds like an awful idea.
Unless they are weak as sht, and the water needs to be heated twice to get up to temperature.
As a Dutch person I’ve never seen a water heating system with a tank like in the US, we all use boilers and they are fantastic. Boilers are harder to use in “big” homes though.
You haven’t been to Europe then. I have a boiler in my basement which delivers hot water for two bathrooms and a kitchen as long as I want with constant temperature and never breaking down. That’s not even something special just the standard.
If you live in an area with hard water, you are suppose to descale the heater at least once every year by flushing the system with some citric acid solution, otherwise you may get irregular hot water flow.
That’s amazing. I mean, I haven’t seen/heard of a tanked hotwater heater in my country in decades, outside of increasingly infrequent rooftop solar heated tanks.
We’ve got instant gas, but I suppose most are electric now. Been running for decades with only needing to be adjusted between summer and winter temps sometimes.
Tanks are just… Useless. Takes up space with no benefit. Tanks use more power or gas. They fail more often (despite your personal experience).
If your tankless system is lasting less than 20 years, you’re doing something wrong. If your tankless isn’t giving steady water temp nonstop, you’re doing something wrong. I mean, those are two of the main benefits they have over tanks. That, and cheaper to run.
Their only advantage is they’re cheap to buy and cheap to install.
It’s the cheap boots issue.
You save money up front and so you waste money long term.
Or, you buy good boots that last.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
Dang that sucks. My house came with some kind of Rinnai unit and it’s worked pretty well. I clean it out with a special chemical wash every year or two and it’s been great. Every now and then it decides it doesn’t want to go, but I just unplug and plug it in and it’s good for the next few months.
I’d rather be able to shower with no power tbh…specifically opted for at.ospheric for that reason. Much cheaper to buy upfront and works in the event of big storms etc… tankless can suck my dirty nuts but I see the appeal, kinda…
Unless you’re showering in the basement, then your pump doesn’t work, and you’ll flood the basement as soon as you fill up the waste water tank.
That’s… what?
In my home there aren’t any pumps.
Water comes in, under pressure, from the city to my water outlets around the house.
Waste water goes down a drain and out into the cities sewage system completely by gravity.
Does the hot water heater also use the pressure from the main line?
That’s how all hot water heaters work. His just uses natural gas instead of electricity.
A gas water heater is still going to have an electric start.
My gas hot water heater does not have an electric start.
Not if it’s a tank system. They can, but they don’t have to, since the pilot stays lit all the time. A tankless system has to use some power since it cycles every time you use it.
Our tankless system has a pilot that stays lit all the time. 🤷
None that requires the house electricity. Piezo, batteries easily work.
Some use a 9v battery on their starter.
Regardless, you can just use a match if you want to.
In either case, they don’t require mains power.
(Sure, there are different models, etc. but it’s not a requirement that all have an electric start, or a mains electric start)
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In a basement, the waste water is pumped up into the sewer drain. No electricity means that pump doesn’t work, the ejector pump pit fills up and floods the basement. If you have a shower in the basement, you likely also have a toilet in the basement, so when that pit floods, it’s “not a good time.”
That’s not how it works were I live.
There are no pumps involved. Fresh water pipes are under pressure from the city water distribution system. Sewage pipes drain via gravity.
There is never a reason to ‘pump’ sewage because the city sewage lines are below any sewage lines in my house.
This must be a regional thing. I’ve never heard of this. The sewers are still further down than my parents basement.
Do you have some sort of poop rated pump?
Yes, it’s like a regular sump pump, except it’s got a large intake and a grinder.
I can see where in older neighborhoods, more urban, where the sewer system existed before the residential, that sewer would still be lower than basements. Or maybe when the residential is much nearer to the water treatment facility, and it’s at the lower end of its slope to get there. New subdivisions on what used to be farmland, way away from water treatment, I’m sure they don’t dig the sewers as deep, and do ejector and sump pumps in the basements.
How does gravity pump the water from a basement UP? Sump pumps are used.
I don’t have a basement.
I have a crawlspace, the plumbing is all in the crawlspace.
Water doesn’t need to be pumped up from the crawlspace because the lines are under pressure from the city main.
Now, if the city water distribution system was down I wouldn’t have fresh water, but there are zero water pumps in my home.
As for sewage, the sewer lines are below all my plumbing, so gravity is enough to drain them.
Then the comment obviously doesn’t relate to you. I stated in the first comment about a basement.
If you don’t have a basement, you can’t shower in your basement…
I have a basement…I can and do shower in my basement. No weird pumps required and I can disconnect the house from the main and still have hot water.
It’s specific to your area where this weird ass pump is required.
I can also disconnect from the main and have hot water. Not sure what a water heater has anything to do with pumping the basement waste water out to the city/septic tank.
It’s definitely not specific to my area. Septic tanks are common around the world, for example.
I live in the US, my sewer pipes are lower than the basement. No pumps are required where I live to shower or do laundry in the he basement.
So… Shower with no power. Instant gas heaters are the best option. Cheap to run, steady temp, no electricity needed.
Well, once in one place I rented I had to change the 9v battery that was used to light/spark it, but otherwise, no electricity needed at all.
Don’t have household gas? Just connect it to a gas bbq bottle. For me, I had to swap it every month, but for a family, I’d probably get a bigger canister. They’re all fairly cheap to refill-swap.
Tankless are so much better in every way.
I’d love to see a tankless that you can run without power, also please don’t hook up a natural gas tankless to propane…
I mean, it was just a common off the shelf unit, wasn’t anything special, but I don’t live there anymore. I can msg the landlord to get a photo or something of the model number if you want to buy one?
I mean, what does it need power - beyond the 9v battery for the starter - for?
And as for propane, why not? That’s what they’re designed and built for. You’re weird.
Inducer motor for starters. This blows hot gasses outside. Circuit boards need power, the switches and relays on the boards. There’s programming and timings that are on the boards. Most models now also have wifi modules too.
Wut? No. None of that.
Programming for what? What switches and relays? You have no idea what you’re on about. 🤦
Are you talking tank, or tankless. Tankless gas all of that
Tank can easily have none except solenoid in valve
Goddamn you’re an idiot. Were your parents more inbred than the Habsburgs?