I have a buddy who did gun repairs, he fucking hates AR-15s. If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun. It’s a cheap, widely available platform that has cheap and widely available ammo, it just fucking works, it’s easy to care for, easy to use, pretty standard maintenance, and will kill what you need it to. They’re lethal much further out than video games imply, because otherwise they’d completely wreck the balance of the game.
Edit: I asked him for his specific beef with ARs, this was his response.
They’re a bitch to clean. There’s lots of places that need to be cleaned that can’t be reached easily, tons of little pockets and grooves you can’t get into; requires a dental pick, star shaped cleaning patches, and a shit load of cotton swabs to get through.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it. You will not be able to field strip this rifle if it’s jammed out of battery.
Aluminum gas blocks are apparently very popular, and they will corrode to failure at the gas tube port.
The extractor pin will often shatter in place, which causes intermittent failure while not looking wrong unless you know what you’re looking for.
Your buddy may have an unfounded bias against them, as AR-15’s are in general extremely reliable, and don’t require much maintainence or cleaning for the most part, especially since most people don’t practice all that much.
A shotgun is a great choice for defense though, and often is a better choice than an AR.
If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun
Disagree.
First, ammo starts at a minimum of 44cpr for 00 buck. Second, unless you get mag fed shotguns–which have their own problems–you’re getting a maximum of about 7 rounds. Third, if you’re talking about pump guns, it’s pretty easy to short stroke one in a high-stress situation. Gas guns are a different matter, but they’re pickier about ammo. Fourth–again, unless you have a mag fed shotgun–reloading is not nearly as quick and easy as it is with any firearm with a magazine.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it.
You mortar them; that usually gets it. I’ve had to do that a few times.
Yeah, a detail strip and clean is a bastard. But you don’t really need to do those very often. A field strip and clean is sufficient most of the time.
If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun. It’s a cheap, widely available platform that has cheap and widely available ammo, it just fucking works, it’s easy to care for, easy to use, pretty standard maintenance, and will kill what you need it to. They’re lethal much further out than video games imply, because otherwise they’d completely wreck the balance of the game.
Yeah, with a 12 gauge shell of 00 buckshot, every pull of the trigger is almost like mag dumping a 9mm handgun in that direction. Very destructive very quickly at indoor distances, a little bit of wiggle room with the aiming m, and less risk of overpenetration than something like a rifle or a big caliber handgun.
A 12 gauge pump shotgun is actually the only firearm in my house(in the US), and I got it over 30 years ago. I kind of want to get a 9mm handgun, but it doesn’t feel like an immediate need given the shotgun.
A couple things I have to note, also as someone that used to do gun repairs and basic gunsmithing for a shop back in the day:
They are a bitch to clean, but the right tools can make it a lot easier. Get a boresnake, proper cleaning solvent and lube, patches and brushes, both brass and regular brush. Watch a youtube video and learn how to properly clean it. Pop out the two push pins and field strip it and cleaning it is rather easy. For the upper run boresnake through with solvent and patches until clean, then run it through again with lube. EZ.
(Also learn to clean or at least do a half-ass clean if time is a problem after every range visit, we got so many firearms that looked like they hadn’t been cleaned in years and were always a real bitch to take care of. My personal favorite was someone upset that we couldn’t magically restore his “5 years in a garage in Florida humidity in a duffel bag never fired or cleaned” that was rusted and pitted to hell, and that it couldn’t be brought back to factory new for 30 bucks 😂)
I haven’t personally had this happen to me, but also range use will vary wildly from combat use so I can’t speak on this too much.
They are because aluminum is very popular for manufacturing. If taken care of properly, this won’t be an issue. See above that most people don’t clean and maintain theirs properly lmao
Skill issue. Memes aside a good quality BCG is important for this reason. More people need to learn how the parts work on their build and change out parts as necessary if they are having issues with certain parts of it.
Not really, no. It’s true that you aren’t going to be sniping anyone with a shotgun, and it’s also dependent on the shot you’re using, but shotguns are used to hit ducks in flight, turkey, and deer (among others), which are all usually going to be a bit further away than your average hallway. Generally, birdshot is worthless for people outside of very close range; I once ran a call where someone got shot with birdshot from across the street and they might as well have been hit point blank with an airsoft gun. If that had been buckshot or a slug, they would have been completely fried. The tradeoff that you do with shot is that a finer shot will have a wider and denser cloud of projectiles, but each of those projectiles has less mass (and therefore momentum) for penetrating power. Buckshot is basically throwing a handful of (smaller) old school ball shot at whatever you’re pointing at, and whatever you hit is going to have a bad time. I personally prefer the heavier 000 (triple-ought) buck to 00 (double-ought) buckshot, but either works great. A slug is going to have the best range and penetrating power; at close range, a slug will defeat any non-ceramic body armor, and people wearing ceramic are still going to be very unhappy. Of course, a slug also requires the best aim, because it’s just one solid chunk of metal. in either case, I would say that shotguns with buckshot and slugs are entirely appropriate for personal defense in or out of the home, and urban combat.
I have a buddy who did gun repairs, he fucking hates AR-15s. If you want a gun that ticks all the boxes, get a 12 gauge shotgun. It’s a cheap, widely available platform that has cheap and widely available ammo, it just fucking works, it’s easy to care for, easy to use, pretty standard maintenance, and will kill what you need it to. They’re lethal much further out than video games imply, because otherwise they’d completely wreck the balance of the game.
Edit: I asked him for his specific beef with ARs, this was his response.
They’re a bitch to clean. There’s lots of places that need to be cleaned that can’t be reached easily, tons of little pockets and grooves you can’t get into; requires a dental pick, star shaped cleaning patches, and a shit load of cotton swabs to get through.
If it’s locked up, you can’t knock on the charging handle or emergency kick the charging handle to clear it. You will not be able to field strip this rifle if it’s jammed out of battery.
Aluminum gas blocks are apparently very popular, and they will corrode to failure at the gas tube port.
The extractor pin will often shatter in place, which causes intermittent failure while not looking wrong unless you know what you’re looking for.
Your buddy may have an unfounded bias against them, as AR-15’s are in general extremely reliable, and don’t require much maintainence or cleaning for the most part, especially since most people don’t practice all that much.
A shotgun is a great choice for defense though, and often is a better choice than an AR.
Disagree.
First, ammo starts at a minimum of 44cpr for 00 buck. Second, unless you get mag fed shotguns–which have their own problems–you’re getting a maximum of about 7 rounds. Third, if you’re talking about pump guns, it’s pretty easy to short stroke one in a high-stress situation. Gas guns are a different matter, but they’re pickier about ammo. Fourth–again, unless you have a mag fed shotgun–reloading is not nearly as quick and easy as it is with any firearm with a magazine.
You mortar them; that usually gets it. I’ve had to do that a few times.
Yeah, a detail strip and clean is a bastard. But you don’t really need to do those very often. A field strip and clean is sufficient most of the time.
Yeah, with a 12 gauge shell of 00 buckshot, every pull of the trigger is almost like mag dumping a 9mm handgun in that direction. Very destructive very quickly at indoor distances, a little bit of wiggle room with the aiming m, and less risk of overpenetration than something like a rifle or a big caliber handgun.
A 12 gauge pump shotgun is actually the only firearm in my house(in the US), and I got it over 30 years ago. I kind of want to get a 9mm handgun, but it doesn’t feel like an immediate need given the shotgun.
A couple things I have to note, also as someone that used to do gun repairs and basic gunsmithing for a shop back in the day:
(Also learn to clean or at least do a half-ass clean if time is a problem after every range visit, we got so many firearms that looked like they hadn’t been cleaned in years and were always a real bitch to take care of. My personal favorite was someone upset that we couldn’t magically restore his “5 years in a garage in Florida humidity in a duffel bag never fired or cleaned” that was rusted and pitted to hell, and that it couldn’t be brought back to factory new for 30 bucks 😂)
I haven’t personally had this happen to me, but also range use will vary wildly from combat use so I can’t speak on this too much.
They are because aluminum is very popular for manufacturing. If taken care of properly, this won’t be an issue. See above that most people don’t clean and maintain theirs properly lmao
Skill issue. Memes aside a good quality BCG is important for this reason. More people need to learn how the parts work on their build and change out parts as necessary if they are having issues with certain parts of it.
The range of a shotgun kinda sucks, though, right? Amazing for home defense though, especially if you don’t have acres of land.
Not really, no. It’s true that you aren’t going to be sniping anyone with a shotgun, and it’s also dependent on the shot you’re using, but shotguns are used to hit ducks in flight, turkey, and deer (among others), which are all usually going to be a bit further away than your average hallway. Generally, birdshot is worthless for people outside of very close range; I once ran a call where someone got shot with birdshot from across the street and they might as well have been hit point blank with an airsoft gun. If that had been buckshot or a slug, they would have been completely fried. The tradeoff that you do with shot is that a finer shot will have a wider and denser cloud of projectiles, but each of those projectiles has less mass (and therefore momentum) for penetrating power. Buckshot is basically throwing a handful of (smaller) old school ball shot at whatever you’re pointing at, and whatever you hit is going to have a bad time. I personally prefer the heavier 000 (triple-ought) buck to 00 (double-ought) buckshot, but either works great. A slug is going to have the best range and penetrating power; at close range, a slug will defeat any non-ceramic body armor, and people wearing ceramic are still going to be very unhappy. Of course, a slug also requires the best aim, because it’s just one solid chunk of metal. in either case, I would say that shotguns with buckshot and slugs are entirely appropriate for personal defense in or out of the home, and urban combat.