If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
E: I wasn’t talking about the specific case in OP but in general
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
I hate that nazis have adopted the DKoK. I love them because I really like the french inspired aspect of the design (like the trench coat) and I really love gasmasks. I got into 40k because of them and started an imperial guard army. But the amount of chuds that play them and the broader imperium grossed me out. Now I play chaos space marines (Red Corsairs (cause pirates) and Thousand Sons (cause I like magic and the drama)) and am gonna convert my imperial guard into chaos guard.
I always kind of feel like a bad leftist because I really like playing germany in Hearts of Iron. I can’t help it that germany has a monster industrial base and democratic countries are mechanically limited. I just like my jank tank battalions and some nice relaxing map painting but no other country has the industrial base for that without also being limited by the democratic ideology mechanics or having to go through the whole process to switch ideology.
I think that’s more to do with Hearts of Iron not being fully realistic in Germany’s industrial capacity. All the memes and myths about them make them out to be far more capable than they really were in reality and HoI are matching that perception.
In reality, Germany’s success was largely due to huge risks and brinkmanship, and the Allies kept backing down and letting the Axis take bites out of them. There were many points in time where any allied response would have wiped out the German military, particularly their invasions Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland. On top of that, all of the Axis had military doctrines based on fast, intense, and most importantly short campaigns where they could soly rely on stockpiles.
Once the Axis achieved some (admittedly large) successes, they started believing they could take on the Allies in a full scale attritional war, which is what eventually ground them to dust. They could have potentially won if they kept taking small bites, but that’s not the war that was fought.
I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
The space marines regularly have groups that splinter off from their ideology (soul drinkers) or renounce it entirely (see chaos), last I knew the dark Eldar are the ones who got corrupted by a chaos God but the craft world Eldar weren’t “created by a deity”, the orks are space fungus that have a psychic connection which creates their deities of Gork and Mork.
I can see how it can be interpreted that way and the gene seed is a really good point but I’m having a hard time making all the other connections.
Even the inquisition has tons of characters that either change their ideology or side entirely.
The Aeldar (along with the predecessor to the orks, the krorks) were created by the Old Ones to fight the necrontyr/necrons and the C’tan during the War in Heaven.
Also whether or not characters or legions deviate from the Imperium’s ideology is unimportant as they are still supporters of a theocratic, xenophobic, authoritarian, ultra-militaristic, and ultimately fascist regime. This sort of argument that the Space Marines and such aren’t fascists because they split away from the broader Imperium ideology is like when Nazis try to argue that the Wehrmacht were made up of average soldiers so not all of them were Nazis. Its irrelevant, they are still fighting to support a fascist regime which makes them a fascist. The only times Space Marines have ever actually split enough from the imperium to reliquish their loyalty to it is when they end up swapping to Chaos (which is just as bad, if not worse). My favorite faction, the Red Corsairs, being a perfect example of this.
Also the Orks are a charicature and parody of british hooligan culture.
The old ones are who created the eldar, not literal gods, but a race that was so powerful they wielded cosmic power. They disappeared 10s of millions of year ago, and you can still see how deeply their bio-engineered structure is still influencing their creations. However, in their absence, the eldar have replaced them with new gods, and had to adapt to how the galaxy is post war in heaven. The Orks are a fungus, that was created as a bio-weapon race by the Old ones. The war in heaven, which was old ones vs C’tan, cause the psychic/spirit/whatever aspect of the universe to be corrupted into the warp. That taint is what caused most of these splinter groups. However the whole structure of things is based of lineage, everything important is the result of, and/or practices eugenics of some sort. You can even see it in the structure like how Hive cities are organized. Just because there are splinter groups doesn’t mean this stuff isn’t that. If anything it leans into it because the biggest reason things splinter from the groups largely have to do with warp influence, which is what real groups, like the nazis, would call degeneracy. Also, if you look at groups like Nazis there was always infighting, fractional groups, internal rebels, etc. The existence of things resisting the system doesn’t mean that isn’t what the system is, and that it isn’t the preeminent concept at the foundation of everything.
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
E: I wasn’t talking about the specific case in OP but in general
If the context is 40k, definitely not an unexpected question.
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
Think about it this way, if you joined WWII reenactment, you’ll mostly come across guys that have a general interest in WWII and will play the role of most factions (including Germany if needed). But you will also run into guys who are enthusiastically on the German side 90% and less happy playing anything else. That second guy is most likely a Nazi but tries to maintain plausible deniability
“I only play black templars and krieg. No, what shovel meme?”
hmmmmmm
I hate that nazis have adopted the DKoK. I love them because I really like the french inspired aspect of the design (like the trench coat) and I really love gasmasks. I got into 40k because of them and started an imperial guard army. But the amount of chuds that play them and the broader imperium grossed me out. Now I play chaos space marines (Red Corsairs (cause pirates) and Thousand Sons (cause I like magic and the drama)) and am gonna convert my imperial guard into chaos guard.
I completely agree, that’s why I play krieg, to show that normal people like them too.
I always kind of feel like a bad leftist because I really like playing germany in Hearts of Iron. I can’t help it that germany has a monster industrial base and democratic countries are mechanically limited. I just like my jank tank battalions and some nice relaxing map painting but no other country has the industrial base for that without also being limited by the democratic ideology mechanics or having to go through the whole process to switch ideology.
I think that’s more to do with Hearts of Iron not being fully realistic in Germany’s industrial capacity. All the memes and myths about them make them out to be far more capable than they really were in reality and HoI are matching that perception.
In reality, Germany’s success was largely due to huge risks and brinkmanship, and the Allies kept backing down and letting the Axis take bites out of them. There were many points in time where any allied response would have wiped out the German military, particularly their invasions Alsace-Lorraine and the Sudetenland. On top of that, all of the Axis had military doctrines based on fast, intense, and most importantly short campaigns where they could soly rely on stockpiles.
Once the Axis achieved some (admittedly large) successes, they started believing they could take on the Allies in a full scale attritional war, which is what eventually ground them to dust. They could have potentially won if they kept taking small bites, but that’s not the war that was fought.
I too am confused about the correlation since I’ve never run into nazis playing 40k. Though to be fair I run slaaneshi chaos so I don’t think I’m in their demo of black templars.
Warhammer 40k lore is on the level of racism and genetic determinism that resonates with nazibrain.
Every faction is a caricature and parody of some ideological concept where every member is obligated to live and die exactly as they’re supposed to.
That’s not at all what I picked up from it. Could you give an example?
I mean, the space marines are genetically engineered soldiers who are locked into their roles they inherited from the primearch who’s genetic ancestry they are from, all of which were crafted based on the genetically superior being of the emperor. The eldar and orcs are literally bio-engineered weapons weapons of a race that were basically gods. The Tau have a lot of layers racial hierarchy, bio-engineering, and similar levels of eugenics stuff going on. The tyranids basically just consumer biomass to filter for genes that can benefit their race and incorporate the new genetic data. I mean, unless you didn’t pay any attention to the game lore, I really don’t know how you missed all this. Like, this is the core of the game lore.
Beyond that GW have straight said that each faction is a caricature of some form of extreme ideology. The imperium are basically theocratic space nazis, the orcs are pretty much how the classical empires, or something like that imperium, see less developed human groups, the barbaric hordes. Etc.
The space marines regularly have groups that splinter off from their ideology (soul drinkers) or renounce it entirely (see chaos), last I knew the dark Eldar are the ones who got corrupted by a chaos God but the craft world Eldar weren’t “created by a deity”, the orks are space fungus that have a psychic connection which creates their deities of Gork and Mork.
I can see how it can be interpreted that way and the gene seed is a really good point but I’m having a hard time making all the other connections. Even the inquisition has tons of characters that either change their ideology or side entirely.
The Aeldar (along with the predecessor to the orks, the krorks) were created by the Old Ones to fight the necrontyr/necrons and the C’tan during the War in Heaven.
Also whether or not characters or legions deviate from the Imperium’s ideology is unimportant as they are still supporters of a theocratic, xenophobic, authoritarian, ultra-militaristic, and ultimately fascist regime. This sort of argument that the Space Marines and such aren’t fascists because they split away from the broader Imperium ideology is like when Nazis try to argue that the Wehrmacht were made up of average soldiers so not all of them were Nazis. Its irrelevant, they are still fighting to support a fascist regime which makes them a fascist. The only times Space Marines have ever actually split enough from the imperium to reliquish their loyalty to it is when they end up swapping to Chaos (which is just as bad, if not worse). My favorite faction, the Red Corsairs, being a perfect example of this.
Also the Orks are a charicature and parody of british hooligan culture.
The old ones are who created the eldar, not literal gods, but a race that was so powerful they wielded cosmic power. They disappeared 10s of millions of year ago, and you can still see how deeply their bio-engineered structure is still influencing their creations. However, in their absence, the eldar have replaced them with new gods, and had to adapt to how the galaxy is post war in heaven. The Orks are a fungus, that was created as a bio-weapon race by the Old ones. The war in heaven, which was old ones vs C’tan, cause the psychic/spirit/whatever aspect of the universe to be corrupted into the warp. That taint is what caused most of these splinter groups. However the whole structure of things is based of lineage, everything important is the result of, and/or practices eugenics of some sort. You can even see it in the structure like how Hive cities are organized. Just because there are splinter groups doesn’t mean this stuff isn’t that. If anything it leans into it because the biggest reason things splinter from the groups largely have to do with warp influence, which is what real groups, like the nazis, would call degeneracy. Also, if you look at groups like Nazis there was always infighting, fractional groups, internal rebels, etc. The existence of things resisting the system doesn’t mean that isn’t what the system is, and that it isn’t the preeminent concept at the foundation of everything.
Right, in that context it wouldn’t be.
Hellsing Abridged on the topic.
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
The setting here feels similar.
Of course setting, their actions and whatnot matter. It isn’t out of nowhere if there’s some context for it that the recipient also understands.
In 40k where the Imperium are outright fascists, the context is already there
Yes