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I’m surprised that nobody defended the Western Allies’ takeover of former Axis empires yet. I am going to write this to prevent any attempts:
The Western Allies reused the Empire of Japan’s system of forced prostitution.
Italian anticommunists pardoned Fascists while punishing thousands of partisans; there was no equivalent to the Nuremberg Trials for the Italian Fascists; the liberal bourgeoisie refused to prosecute Fascists for their atrocities in Ethiopia; and there were continuities between Fascism & the post‐1945 Italian police.
When the Western Allies took Algeria from the Axis, they let the fascists continue running the internment camps; important elements of the Fascist era survived in postwar France.
The U.S. Army continued keeping Jews in the Axis’s concentration camps (‘We appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them, except that we do not exterminate them.’ —
Harry Truman, Sept. 1946Earl G. Harrison, Aug. 1945); West Germany’s régime was polluted with surviving Axis personnel; fascist elements survived in West Germany.Somebody could argue that there was no alternative to the Western Allies, but plenty of partisans were active in France, for example, and the Eastern Allies could have reached every Axis‐occupied region given enough time.
I’ll freely concede that the Western Allies were better than the Axis… but that’s not exactly saying much.
The U.S. Army continued keeping Jews in the Axis’s concentration camps (‘We appear to be treating the Jews as the Nazis treated them, except that we do not exterminate them.’ — Harry Truman, Sept. 1946)
This point specifically I think is unfair. When you liberate a prison that has prisoners from far away, you can’t necessarily arrange for everyone to get sent home immediately. Honestly, with the state of anatomical atrophy the survivors had been reduced to – such that eating a larger-than-average meal would kill them – I’d worry about them even being able to make the trip if it was taken immediately.
I could be missing something though (and I concede that them still being there in Sept. 1946 means they were probably being unduly deprioritized)
@yogthos
well… if the map also shows where the US has acted clandestinely for its own imperialist purposes, the map gets a little redder.
what’s more lib than cheering for slavery https://www.historicly.net/p/tibet-china-and-the-violent-reaction
You can be opposed to the theocratic bullshit that is the Dalai Lama and still acknowledge that China invaded & occupied Tibet.
Especially if you count the Allies winning WWII as the invasion & occupation of Germany in the upper map.
Liberating the people of Tibet from a feudal theocracy, from poverty and illiteracy. The horror they must be suffering.
I don’t think many Tibetans would welcome a CIA-backed Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama coup government.
Liberating Germany from Nazi rule, the horror!
If you count the Allied victory as the invasion & occupation of Germany, you must count the liberation of Tibet as an invasion and occupation.
Tut‐tut, I see that feddit.org has blacklisted lemmygrad.ml members, which explains why Enkrod overlooked my comment on the Western Allies’ lackluster excuses for liberation.
Of course, I could have made my comment longer, such as specifically mentioning how the Western Allies maintained Fritz Schaeffer as Bavaria’s minister president. That wasn’t a secret either.
Yog, where is Tibet?
Is it safe? Is it alright?
skill issue
Big time, despite all the colonization the burger empire still can’t keep up with China. Hence all the crying about over production.
No, I meant China’s lack of colonies is a skill issue. They’ve tried often enough, but usually got BTFO by a small set of islands in front of their coast, or a few hundred Europeans.
They’ve tried often enough
[Citations needed]
Nah, China hasn’t tied making colonies. It has developed using its own means, and now it has surpassed the US.
Not invading other countries is a choice, not a skill.
the uk got invaded?
More like became a vassal of the empire after WW2 along with the rest of Europe.
comedy hot take understanding of geopolitcs aside, you said they invaded and occupied?
when did they invade and occupy the uk?
So North Korea and Vietnam do count for China, right?
No, they don’t as China doesn’t have military occupation in either, and doesn’t control their politics. But nobody expects libs to have any sort of intellectual integrity.
China doesn’t occupy every nook and cranny of the oceans and waterways on the planet. Whoever made this chart is a fuckin moron. Humans cannot realistically engage in long term oceanic invasion and occupation.
@yogthos Your map is wrong. This comment from the linked thread probably sums it up best…
"loaExMachina
@sh.itjust.worksImage says “Has invaded since PRC was founded”, not “is occupying right now”, don’t try to change the terms of the debate when contradicted. You still could’ve made a point that China invaded much fewer countries than the US, but at least try to have an accurate map or the accurate words."
pretty disingenuous to call border skirmishes invasions if you ask me
@yogthos If you send your military across another countries’ border without that countries’ permission that’s generally referred to as an invasion, but don’t let facts get in the way of your CCP shilling.
Invasion is an act where a country enters another country by force with the objective of taking control of it. But don’t let your lack of English cprehension stop you from making a clown of yourself.
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/invasion
@yogthos CCP military went into Indian territory without permission, not once but on several occasions, many of which resulted in violence. On each occasion China military wasn’t crossing the border to have a picnic, the goal is the gradual encroachment of territory, a tactic used by CCP with 17 countries that CCP think they own. https://theweek.com/news/world-news/china/955728/all-countries-china-territory-disputes
I’m curious now, can the CCP stlll pay you to shill for them with the Chinese economy so bad now, or do you shill for free to show patriotism?
I have no idea what CCP is.
@yogthos You know what the PRC is but no idea what the CCP is…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you’re not a very good shill are you, funny, but not very good.I know what CPC is, I have no idea what CCP is. Maybe it’s just that people who huff too much gas can’t spell Communist Party of China correctly? 🤷
Brazil should be painted. The US is known to be sparked the 1964 military coup and, if I remember correctly, the Alcântara Launch Center is used by US. There are also military exercises involving US Army using Brazilian military bases (such as Formosa).
@yogthos Technically, they have also invaded themselves.
When did the US invade all of russia? (genuinely curious)
Ah. Xinjiang and Tibet should defintely be painted in red. Also Vietnam without a doubt. Korea is a matter of definition.
🤣
Also Hong Kong, not really an invasion, but definitely not a welcomed rule of power after the UK left.
Removed by mod
Ah yes, China helping Korea liberate itself from the US invasion is occupation. I’m starting to think I want whatever drugs Fleur is having.
They literally just did the same thing the US did but for the other side.
This is literally the dumbest thing that’s been said on this site in a long time.
Removed by mod
the map I posted did a great job exposing people like you 😂
Oh no now everyone will know I’m media literate
Educate yourself on the Korean war. https://youtu.be/XJ0kBLCCE7c
Look, can’t we agree that neither country gives a shit about the working class? Nation states are so 20th century. Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?
That said… What do the different shades of colors mean in the top image? Only half fucked over?
No we can’t because that’s demonstrably false. The state in China clearly represents the interests of the majority.
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes
The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf
From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4
From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008
By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html
People in China also enjoy high social mobility https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html
And finally, they have record household savings https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j
Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?
The real question is why do anarchists have nothing to show aside from rhetoric for over a century. I’ll take a functional worker state that actually improves lives of the people instead of living under dictatorship of capital while dreaming about unachievable utopia.
Because i want rail roads crossing the world and massive buildings and a global shipping network and all the things that are only possible because of states. If u want to return to monkee feel free but the rest of us would like to have a civilization. Fundamentally i disagree with ur stupid ideals even IF we put aside the reality of defending anything that working people build from capital.
This is too close to dishonest to be persuasive.
The word “occupied” is doing the heavy lifting, but saying “invaded & occupied” implies that they’ve done as little invading as occupying, which is not true.
The USSR isn’t included, so the implication that socialism means 0 occupations is also untrue.
All states that identify as socialist have done fewer invasions than the US, as a combination of having existed for less time, having had less power during that time and -yes - having a slightly lower inclination to invade.
All powerful states abuse their power to unacceptable (if differing) degrees. That’s the nature of hierarchical power. All nation states are vermin.
