How about the parts where wealthy were taxed at a 90% rate over $100k and you could comfortably live on a single income with a family of 4 in a home you fully owned after 15 years while not needing medical insurance because even a broken leg was gonna cost you like $20 out of pocket.
How about that portion. The one when government corruption would get you thrown out and was seen as shameful. Don’t ignore the good parts of the old days and just focus on the bad parts.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today. How do you think things got so fucked up today? Yesterday’s corruption made it all happen. However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today.
No, it didn’t. The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
Today’s politicians do stuff out in the open that only a few politicians in the past would try to do behind closed doors (Nixon has got to be doing cartwheels in his coffin right now). You can notice the big difference and how things are today, versus in the past. The quiet parts are now done in the open.
There was always a push and pull between corruption and ethics in politics. However yesterday’s politicians tried a lot harder to make sure the middle class was doing okay overall, before they started doing corrupt things for themselves. Today’s politicians just want to use everything around them for their own benefit, without regards to anything else.
We’re truly living in weird times right now, politically. The unspoken rules of politics are being ignored.
I’m not sure I’d say it’s exact, but some of the political norms you’re describing appear to have been extremely short-lived. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to get them back or rue their loss.
Machine politics with power structures like in Tammany hall seem to have been popular for quite a while.
The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
I already said:
However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
If you knew anything of American history you’d know I’m referring to the 1950s. Penicillin was discovered in the 1920’s, women were mystery boxes given vibrators for hysteria and such in the 1890’s, and women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s. Really the only exceptionally bad thing still going on by the 50s that you mentioned was the racial one.
Aside from all that, you want to argue about a non point. I literally acknowledged in my post that there was bad shit about the “good old days”. I was pointing out that there was also actual good things that we no longer have.
women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s
This is a really misinformed idea of the time period. Women could have jobs and own property, but often informally required a man’s permission.
Want a loan, healthcare, start a business, etc.?
Does your father/husband know about this?
If you were married with kids and your husband left - you absolutely had to find a new male partner. Life was nearly unnavigable without a male counterpart, and in many places single mothers were shunned - the social pressure was enormous.
Go watch a TV up into the 80s. Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
So yeah, tax rates and wages for a particular type of person may have sane, don’t expect LGBTQ+, women, or POC to look upon the time period fondly.
Your reaction to this photo (1956) shouldn’t be, ’ but look, negroes could afford nice dresses’.
Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
To be fair, everything in MASH cued a laugh track. It got so bad to the point that Alan Alda insisted on an episode where no laugh track was used at all, whatsoever.
CBS was really hardcore about forcing them to use laugh tracks on everything. I was honestly surprised they didn’t try to sneak one in when Henry Blake died.
I think they finally got rid of the laugh tracks in season 11.
You showed a picture of a racial thing. That’s literally the only thing I specified in my post saying that it WAS still bad in the 50’s.
So…I agree. Still. Just as I did before you posted the pic.
Also, I’m sorry society consisting of all the men and women gave societal pressure to be a housewife, because men and women pressured that societal norm.
For most the american dream has always been primarily just that, a dream.
That cannot be repeated enough because there are very powerful narratives (as old as civilization probably) that want to tell and retell stories about how things used to be better that have no grounding in reality.
You are right though, a decent amount of people actually did get to live the american dream, the US used to be a lot less hostile to a middle class existing. So long as we talk about it with the recognition that many, many, many people were excluded from that dream for bullshit reasons it is an extremely salient point to say virtually no one except the ultra wealthy is living any kind of dream in the US anymore…. which for it is worth is the impression I got from what you were saying.
I don’t think women could get credit cards until the 70’s, so things aren’t perfect for them and the jobs and salary gaps were even more skewed then. But ya, at least penicillin was a thing.
Im not sure if women could get credit cards in the 50’s, but almost no one had credit cards in the 50’s. They didn’t really go mainstream till the late 60’s and up through all the 80’s I remember most people still just using cash or checks. You had a credit card and it needed to go on a manual little machine with a slip of paper over the top that made a “rubbing” of the card for the store to have a copy.
Hell. Credit scores didn’t even exist till like the mid 80’s.
How about the parts where wealthy were taxed at a 90% rate over $100k and you could comfortably live on a single income with a family of 4 in a home you fully owned after 15 years while not needing medical insurance because even a broken leg was gonna cost you like $20 out of pocket.
How about that portion. The one when government corruption would get you thrown out and was seen as shameful. Don’t ignore the good parts of the old days and just focus on the bad parts.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today. How do you think things got so fucked up today? Yesterday’s corruption made it all happen. However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
No, it didn’t. The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
Today’s politicians do stuff out in the open that only a few politicians in the past would try to do behind closed doors (Nixon has got to be doing cartwheels in his coffin right now). You can notice the big difference and how things are today, versus in the past. The quiet parts are now done in the open.
There was always a push and pull between corruption and ethics in politics. However yesterday’s politicians tried a lot harder to make sure the middle class was doing okay overall, before they started doing corrupt things for themselves. Today’s politicians just want to use everything around them for their own benefit, without regards to anything else.
We’re truly living in weird times right now, politically. The unspoken rules of politics are being ignored.
I’m not sure I’d say it’s exact, but some of the political norms you’re describing appear to have been extremely short-lived. That’s not to say we shouldn’t try to get them back or rue their loss.
Machine politics with power structures like in Tammany hall seem to have been popular for quite a while.
I disagree. They have been around for many decades, if not centuries.
Never heard of things like people heckling during the State of the Union Address until recent modern times, etc.
Politicians are no longer following a lot of the unwritten rules that they used to.
I already said:
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
Well, you did use the word exactly…
I was pushing back against that terminology. Some of the argument overlaps. I don’t believe I’m being too nuanced for the conversation being had.
I see. You took my word choice literally. It was hyperbolic.
based lol
…and yet anyone who wasn’t a white dude wasn’t allowed any of those property benefits you’re touting.
Funny that you mention medical expenses were lower when there was no penicillin so a broken leg or pregnancy had a much higher death rate.
And medical for women was treated as a mystery.
And medical for most minorities was essentially non existent.
‘Just focusing on the bad parts’ is the dismissive way to describe everyone else’s experience while existing outside the white dude bubble.
If you knew anything of American history you’d know I’m referring to the 1950s. Penicillin was discovered in the 1920’s, women were mystery boxes given vibrators for hysteria and such in the 1890’s, and women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s. Really the only exceptionally bad thing still going on by the 50s that you mentioned was the racial one.
Aside from all that, you want to argue about a non point. I literally acknowledged in my post that there was bad shit about the “good old days”. I was pointing out that there was also actual good things that we no longer have.
This is a really misinformed idea of the time period. Women could have jobs and own property, but often informally required a man’s permission.
Want a loan, healthcare, start a business, etc.? Does your father/husband know about this?
If you were married with kids and your husband left - you absolutely had to find a new male partner. Life was nearly unnavigable without a male counterpart, and in many places single mothers were shunned - the social pressure was enormous.
Go watch a TV up into the 80s. Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
So yeah, tax rates and wages for a particular type of person may have sane, don’t expect LGBTQ+, women, or POC to look upon the time period fondly.
Your reaction to this photo (1956) shouldn’t be, ’ but look, negroes could afford nice dresses’.
To be fair, everything in MASH cued a laugh track. It got so bad to the point that Alan Alda insisted on an episode where no laugh track was used at all, whatsoever.
CBS was really hardcore about forcing them to use laugh tracks on everything. I was honestly surprised they didn’t try to sneak one in when Henry Blake died.
I think they finally got rid of the laugh tracks in season 11.
You showed a picture of a racial thing. That’s literally the only thing I specified in my post saying that it WAS still bad in the 50’s.
So…I agree. Still. Just as I did before you posted the pic.
Also, I’m sorry society consisting of all the men and women gave societal pressure to be a housewife, because men and women pressured that societal norm.
For most the american dream has always been primarily just that, a dream.
That cannot be repeated enough because there are very powerful narratives (as old as civilization probably) that want to tell and retell stories about how things used to be better that have no grounding in reality.
You are right though, a decent amount of people actually did get to live the american dream, the US used to be a lot less hostile to a middle class existing. So long as we talk about it with the recognition that many, many, many people were excluded from that dream for bullshit reasons it is an extremely salient point to say virtually no one except the ultra wealthy is living any kind of dream in the US anymore…. which for it is worth is the impression I got from what you were saying.
I don’t think women could get credit cards until the 70’s, so things aren’t perfect for them and the jobs and salary gaps were even more skewed then. But ya, at least penicillin was a thing.
Im not sure if women could get credit cards in the 50’s, but almost no one had credit cards in the 50’s. They didn’t really go mainstream till the late 60’s and up through all the 80’s I remember most people still just using cash or checks. You had a credit card and it needed to go on a manual little machine with a slip of paper over the top that made a “rubbing” of the card for the store to have a copy.
Hell. Credit scores didn’t even exist till like the mid 80’s.