• tunetardis@lemmy.ca
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    6 months ago

    In fairness, a typical PV cell is somewhere around 20% efficient at converting solar energy into electricity with the rest lost to heat. The article mentions that renewables are not perfectly efficient either but that their losses do not contribute pollution, making the losses less egregious. I guess the conclusion to draw from this is that if you must burn coal, you should look seriously at cogeneration schemes where you use that heat directly for other purposes such as industrial processes or even municipal heating to get the most out of the energy.

    • silence7@slrpnk.netOPM
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      6 months ago

      That’s ok; that sunlight would have hit the earth anyways. Solar installations are optimized for minimizing price per kwh, not for optimizing use of solar energy.

  • GrymEdm@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Renewables also have the advantage of not turning our planet into an Easy Bake oven, and not destroying people’s respiratory/genetic/general health like coal does. The coal lobby is basically the only thing keeping coal around when so many better alternatives exist (which is every modern alternative).

  • Gork@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    Billion BTUs per month.

    Those are the worst Freedom™ units. So hard to use and convert.

      • Gork@lemm.ee
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        6 months ago

        Yes but all of the derived units used in thermodynamic calculations. Pain in the ass to work with.

        Heat Transfer Coefficients - BTU/(hr•ft2•°R) vs J/(m2•K)

        Heat Capacity - BTU/°F vs J/K

        Heat Flux - BTU/(hr•ft2) vs W/m2

        Specific Heat Capacity - BTU/(lb•°F) vs J/(kg•K)

        R-value - (°F•ft2•hr)/BTU vs (K•m2/W)

        Thermal Conductivity - BTU/(hr•ft•°F) vs W/(m•K)

        1 ton of refrigeration vs 3.517 kW

    • silence7@slrpnk.netOPM
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      6 months ago

      It’s meaningful because charts showing “primary energy” include waste heat, so you only need to replace ~1/3 of primary energy with renewables to fully replace its use.

      • PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de
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        6 months ago

        what charts are using primary energy? the only useful metric is energy we can actually use, and all statistics I know generally compare emissions per kWh of electricity, not primary energy.

        We don’t take inti account the energy of the sun for calculating solar energy either.

        • silence7@slrpnk.netOPM
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          6 months ago

          The ones I’ve seen people using in online discourse are these which mislead the heck out of people trying to figure out how much work is needed for displacing fossil fuels.

        • FaceDeer@fedia.io
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          6 months ago

          If we did then solar energy would be the most ridiculously inefficient energy source on Earth. Only 0.000000045% of the Sun’s energy even hits Earth at all.

          Though now that I think of it, uranium comes from supernovae and neutron star mergers. So nuclear power might be even less efficient.

        • federalreverse-old@feddit.de
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          6 months ago

          If you look around, there are tons of people who claim that all of the primary energy used today needs to be provided by renewables in the future (and that that’s impossible).

      • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        6 months ago

        It looks also like this graph is completely ignoring the fact that the excess heat is actually used to heat up homes (at least in Finland), making the process of burning coal way more efficient.

        That said, renewables are obviously still better on the climate, and should be heavily invested to.

  • Pifpafpouf@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    “Energy contained in coal” doesn’t make any sense. Is it “energy we could get from burning coal if it was 100% efficient”? “Energy we could get from coal if we could use it in a nuclear reaction”?

    Coal (anything) doesn’t “contain” energy. We can transform some things, and some transformations produce energy in some form or another.

    The upper line of this graph should be labeled “total energy liberated by burning coal” and the lower one “useful energy liberated by burning coal”.

    • Hazmatastic@lemm.ee
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      6 months ago

      I think it’s referring to the yellow-shaded portion between the energy contained and energy gained. The energy contained is the potential chemical energy that is released when burning in the form of heat. We can only harness so much of that energy as no system is flawless like the theoretical Carnot engine. The theoretical amount you can gain compared to amount actually captured is the efficiency, so this graph is meant to highlight how inefficient coal burning is.

      And while, on paper, renewable energy is less efficient in that a smaller percentage of energy can be captured, we are also not losing something in exchange for that inefficiency since there is no fuel involved. We just get less than we’d like. Everything not captured from burning coal is not just a waste of resources, but also adds things that are a detriment to the environment like greenhouse gases. It’s harder to get as much from renewable sources, but they’re also not making the problem worse at anywhere near as big a scale.

      The graph is poorly labeled, as it should only refer to the gap, but implies the full value of energy contained instead of the difference between energy gained and electricity obtained. But I think it’s valid

    • current@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Coal (anything) doesn’t “contain” energy. We can transform some things, and some transformations produce energy in some form or another.

      Akstchually energy is a property of matter, or matter is a property of energy, whatever 🤓 but your point still stands