• letsgo@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    Brief summary: according to Americans, everyone else is doomed if Americans walk away.

    Er, no. If America walks away, that’s when America discovers everyone can manage perfectly well without them, just like we did the last time y’all had that orange muppet in the Shite House.

    • Obinice@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’m the first to agree usually, USA Defaultism and such is a huge annoyance.

      But, while the following is just one theory, it was plausible enough to give me pause, and consider that there may be avenues for things to go badly that I wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.

      This scenario doesn’t include the USA leaving NATO but instead not responding to Article 5 if it’s triggered in an unimportant backwater corner of NATO, so functionally it’s the same kinda idea.

      https://youtu.be/ZY7GPBSyONU

      If nothing else, certainly food for thought!

    • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Absolutely I’d love to see Europe pay for its own defense and patrol the trade lanes that feed it.

      Bring our guys home and stop wasting us tax dollars.

      • Jallu@sopuli.xyz
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        10 months ago

        So, according to your comment Europe is getting free (military) resources and/or money from the US with no agenda or gain for the US? It’s like “The US (alone, for your clarification) against the World, we do things just to empower every other nation and everyone else”.

        Please, bring your guys home, then. Maybe the World would be better off.

        • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          The US has been subsidizing Europe (and Japan) as a counterweight to the Soviet Union since the end of WW2. Bretton Woods established the modern world where the US opened its markets and guaranteed freedom of the seas to anyone that would join us against the USSR.

          Globalism as we know it today did not exist prior to WW2. Nations traded and sourced resources from their colonial empire. The U.S. opened the world to trade by championing globalism guaranteeing safe trade lanes. In return we tied those countries to our security and stood them up to take on the USSR.

          Fast forward 80 years and the Soviet Union is gone, Russia is weak and will probably disintegrate at the end of the war in the Ukraine. Most of Europe is aging faster than anytime in history and is dependent upon globalization to import energy and is far from independent, Germany relies on exports to power its economy, the U.S. does not.

          The demographics in the U.S. are strong, we have a sizable millennial and Gen Z population to replace the boomers (something which Europe does not have). The U.S. is in the middle of the largest industrial build out in history and we produce all of our energy needs within North America. Why do we need Europe? They have no expanding market, Russia will pose no threat.

          I prefer to give Ukraine everything they need to win their war and kneecap Russia and then pull out over the next 15 years and let the world do its thing without us.