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Thats a shitload of pee tapes.
If only it were pee tapes with consenting adults.
Didn’t Congress just pass a law that a US president cannot pull the US out of NATO without an act of congress?
Brief summary: according to Americans, everyone else is doomed if Americans walk away.
Er, no. If America walks away, that’s when America discovers everyone can manage perfectly well without them, just like we did the last time y’all had that orange muppet in the Shite House.
I’m the first to agree usually, USA Defaultism and such is a huge annoyance.
But, while the following is just one theory, it was plausible enough to give me pause, and consider that there may be avenues for things to go badly that I wouldn’t have thought of otherwise.
This scenario doesn’t include the USA leaving NATO but instead not responding to Article 5 if it’s triggered in an unimportant backwater corner of NATO, so functionally it’s the same kinda idea.
If nothing else, certainly food for thought!
Absolutely I’d love to see Europe pay for its own defense and patrol the trade lanes that feed it.
Bring our guys home and stop wasting us tax dollars.
So, according to your comment Europe is getting free (military) resources and/or money from the US with no agenda or gain for the US? It’s like “The US (alone, for your clarification) against the World, we do things just to empower every other nation and everyone else”.
Please, bring your guys home, then. Maybe the World would be better off.
The US has been subsidizing Europe (and Japan) as a counterweight to the Soviet Union since the end of WW2. Bretton Woods established the modern world where the US opened its markets and guaranteed freedom of the seas to anyone that would join us against the USSR.
Globalism as we know it today did not exist prior to WW2. Nations traded and sourced resources from their colonial empire. The U.S. opened the world to trade by championing globalism guaranteeing safe trade lanes. In return we tied those countries to our security and stood them up to take on the USSR.
Fast forward 80 years and the Soviet Union is gone, Russia is weak and will probably disintegrate at the end of the war in the Ukraine. Most of Europe is aging faster than anytime in history and is dependent upon globalization to import energy and is far from independent, Germany relies on exports to power its economy, the U.S. does not.
The demographics in the U.S. are strong, we have a sizable millennial and Gen Z population to replace the boomers (something which Europe does not have). The U.S. is in the middle of the largest industrial build out in history and we produce all of our energy needs within North America. Why do we need Europe? They have no expanding market, Russia will pose no threat.
I prefer to give Ukraine everything they need to win their war and kneecap Russia and then pull out over the next 15 years and let the world do its thing without us.
So… you want the USA to fall into decline.
If the US pulled out of NATO, Russia would not have the resources or ability to attack NATO.
If usa leaves France and UK would probably nuke… Like France literally has the most aggressive first strike policy.
Can we stop talking like using nukes could somehow be reasonable. The thought of using a first strike nuke should be considered beyond outrageous and any leader that even remotely considers it should be ran far away from any position of authority.
Edit: understandable - reasonable
Nobody in their right mind considers it. It’s just a global game of chicken, and some weird armchair strategists try to convince everyone that nuclear attacks are basically the first option on the table.
And I sometimes suspect, that this sentiment gets pushed by Russia (not created, but pushed), because the western fear of nuclear war is definitely an argument against delivering weapons. Especially here in Germany, literally every single new weapon system was considered to “cross a line”, so Russia might attack if we send it.
If you attack EU, you die. That shall be rule.
First strike is the sharpest sword and the biggest shield.
Why would you need to understand something when that something already fucks up the whole world?
The EU doesn’t need nukes to defend itself from a Russian invasion. Ukraine got the West’s hand-me-downs and has completely stalemated Russia with them for over a year. Russia’s conventional forces are a paper tiger. The question is will Russia resort to nukes when the war goes sideways for them.
Russia will continue to soften up the EU, and the US with hybrid psyops warfare then take bits and pieces of real estate. It is working quit well now actually.
Depends how you consider “quite well” - the total collapse of Russia’s military credbility, the insanely high casualty rate, the loss of material, for something that they were already allowed to use in Crimea, and a part of the Donbas?
I wouldn’t call that “well” at all. Seems like a completely disaster.
Maybe reasonable would be a better word.
Once someone uses a nuke, everyone will, and then everyone’s dead anyway.
Exactly! And thats what will happen if some idiot decided to attack EU.
I understand the posturing. Attacking the EU needs to be presented as a terrible idea, but when people start talking about using nukes loosely, then the other side might also consider them fair game. I guess, in my opinion, using first strike nukes is never justified, and if the EU or anyone does it then they’re no better than the aggressors. I would prefer we hold ourselves to higher standards instead of letting the bad actors bring us down to their level.
We are mostly talking about Russia, wich is the country that does nothing as much as threatening to nuke countries…
Yes and we shouldn’t let them bring us down to their level. First strike is never justified, but second strike in response could be. They don’t care about their people, so they probably want to goad others into nuking them. It would free them up to use theirs and claim it’s justified. Let’s not play into their hands.
@MrCookieRespect @School_Lunch but it’s not. @anderspuck had a great video and vlexler a solid addendum how Russian aggression would occur. The biggest sword that putin has if Trump questions art 5 is indeed nuclear blackmail. That is imo the reason why the US has put nukes in RAF Lakenheath (UK has no tac nukes). But a big big big reminder: NATO is 99% posture and a ‘promise:. It was never contested. Art. 5 is an’ invitation to discuss’, nothing more (sadly).
If you think that you are part of the problem.
usa is blocking france and uk?
Not necessarily but since USA is the biggest singular part of nato everyone would discuss with them before doing something. Unless its a linear attack on France or UK directly, then they would strike, or if a first strike is committed on them, then they would retaliate if possible.
