the most egregious example I can think of is antiwork in reddit. Posters there love to rant against companies, but they also give good advice regarding laws in different states and is a good source to deal with micromanagers and toxic workplaces.
But it’s like they simply don’t think that reddit is making money with every post they write. It’s like they’re working for the enemy they so much despise, a large corporation.
It baffles me that people keep posting there. Is the fediverse alternative really that bad?
antiwork on Reddit is a joke at this point. Honestly (and I say this as a pretty staunch leftist), fox news is right about something with AntiWork, that it is for the most part a bunch of lazy people who don’t want to work.
Now that being said, before you downvote me to hell, I strongly do believe in workreform, and the new workreform communities here (and I assume on Reddit but I’m not there anymore) are much better at having a clear message of not being abused and workers rights. Antiwork may have once had that message, but now it’s drowned in “I don’t want to work at all I should be able to have everything I want for free” garbage, and it makes the entire movement look bad.
You have it backwards. Antiwork was always anti-work and was gradually rehabilitated into also including content about work reform.
It’s not a secret. That sub began out of a shared communal sense by folks who literally do not want to work. They are against having jobs. They’re actually pretty clear about that in my experience but it’s been a while.
It’s actually the work reform folks who are the newcomers in that community.
not wanting to work isn’t “being lazy”, you can do all sort of stuff if you didn’t have to waste 8 hours a day for stupid corporate crap (so that others will not need to work)
That falls under the preconception that working is only working if it’s the benefit of capitalism. You can work for a better future. You can work to better yourself. You can work to spread peace and joy to the world around you. The problem is that work is tied to capitalism in social consciousness.
I agree wholeheartedly with you!
lol. Yeah well, I’d love not to work either but I also want food, a home, and to do things I enjoy, so, hear me out, in our society I trade my skills and time for money to pay for those things.
If you want to talk about tangible, actionable items like how much money, or how many hours, or anything that can actually be done, then we can have a conversation. If your standpoint is “We shouldn’t have to work” then to me that’s not an argument. Very few people want to work - but I hate to be the one to tell you this but we aren’t going to tear down 1000s of years of society in a couple of years. There’s a reason Star Trek is set centuries in the future.
The modern concept of work is relatively new, and a product of capitalism. Being anti-work is being against the modern concept of work, not labor in general.
I agree with you. I don’t want to work, but I have to so I do. That doesn’t mean I don’t dream of a time where we won’t have to work anymore [for pointless, shitty, greedy stuff]
Yeah that’s my main realization over the years. We can’t change the system just by being against it. We have to use the crappy system to change it incrementally over time.
thelazy.org agrees!
I’m going to suggest a different take. The antiworkers all work for shitty companies and hate their jobs, and they cannot imagine that anyone else out there is in a different situation. It’s unfathomable to them that some of us might work for pretty ok companies, and do work that, while it’s not as fun as recreating, brings it’s own blend of challenge and fulfillment.
I haven’t been on Reddit in a while and I completely forgot about that community. Sad to hear it’s gone down that way, is it getting botted?
“As a pretty staunch leftist I believe most anti work people are just lazy and the system can be reformed”… Lol, ok.
You’re either not as staunch a leftist as you like to tell yourself, and/or you don’t actually understand what anti-work is about…
I’m also a realist. Yes, it would be great to be post scarcity and live like they do in Star Trek. That’s not going to happen any time soon. We can work that way, bit by bit, but it’s not going to happen. Not this year, not in the next decade, not in the next century.
I fought for gay marriage rights 10 years ago, attended protests, went to town halls and talked with my senators, did the whole thing, and we’re still here talking about it now. States are still trying to roll it back, and if Roe v. Wade told us anything it’s that it’s still not done. I will be lucky if in my life I see that one single item get codified into law.
Upending the world’s entire socio-economic system? Get real, there’s no way that’s happening. Now, as I mentioned in other comments - if you have real, tangible, actionable items to work on - written down goals in order of priority - that can get done.
This is my main problem as a democrat. We get too caught up in high lofty goals and then we all get scatterbrained on what we can actually do. Take the entire BLM movement with George Floyd. There was a moment we could have all collectively said “This is what we want, we want _________”. But people couldn’t decide on one thing. They wanted the entire system changed. If they had chosen one thing, say demilitarization of police - it probably could have happened.
So I say again, as a grizzled, old, very tired democrat. Choose actionable realistic items to focus on. I don’t care what they are. Mandatory health insurance. Retirement for all. Shortened work days. Pick one, focus on that, and you can make it happen. If you keep your message as “The entire system needs to be thrown out and redone” you won’t see anything done.
Well said. It’s easy enough to say you are unhappy with pay, benefits, or working conditions. Complain about the plights of capitalism. Or say you just don’t want to work, period.
There’s a mountain in between here and there. And the path is well defended by the rich and powerful. It’s going to take a lot of work to have less work.
The protest against George Floyd’s murder did have an explicit call to action: defund the police and diversify those funds into social work and alleviating poverty to prevent the need for crime.