Meanwhile most people: the answer to who is the bad guy is:
Both. Both is good
Ah yes, the millions of innocent palestianians that had their homeland taken from them and are now being bombed are literally just ask guilty as the people doing the invading and bombing. Very enlightened take.
The problem with saying “both” is that there are 5 groups involved, maybe even 6.
- The Israeli government
- The Israeli people
- The West Bank Palestinian government (Fatah)
- The Gaza Strip Palestinian government (Hamas)
- The Palestinian people (arguably separate groups to account for differing levels of suffering and oppression)
I’d agree that “both” are bad if you mean the Israeli government and Hamas, though to different degrees at different times. I’d agree “both” are victims if you mean the Israeli and Palestinian peoples, though undoubtedly the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are the most victimized right now and in general.
Ah sorry, just made a comment outlining the parties that I am talking about lol, clearly stating it’s Hamas and the Israeli government
My take is very simple:
-are they actively targeting civilians? If yes then bad:
-Israeli government- yes, then bad. -Hamas- yes, then bad.-are they following what is recognised as international law (namely the 1993 Oslo agreements):
-Israeli government- while they formally recognise Palestine as a state, they have consistently undermined the Palestinian authority and occupied much of the West Bank without a plan for either self governance or leaving, settling parts of the West Bank aggressively, therefore bad. -Hamas- does not recognise Israel in any way and openly calls for its destruction, therefore bad.I don’t think Hamas soldiers are usually in uniform and Hamas bases don’t have signs saying “Hamas military base” on them. They couldn’t exist if they were easily distinguishable from civilians. Naturally Israel abuses this natural opposition to their oppression by escalating the oppression.
They are essentially a state (as they do control Gaza with state powers) and as such, they must abide by the rules of war just like any other
You missed actively using civilian infrastructure for military purpose, actively using civilians as shields, targeting of civilians, and hostage taking as international laws broken by Hamas.
Yes I know, I restricted myself fairly, but outlining war crimes committed by Hamas would’ve been too long a list. Namely, not properly identifying combatente
I am always curious, why does Egypt not want to help Palestinian refugees? Or even allow then to travel through?
Good question. The official position is that they would not be able to go back to gaza once the war ended. And therefore they would be helping israel in displacing the palestinian people of their lands.
Plus, i suspect no one really wants 2M “permanent” refugees. On election season no less.
Because the guy who runs Egypt is a dictator. Guess who appointed him?
Because then in 5 years israel would start attacking and creating “buffer zones” within Egypt until Egypt ceases to exist.
Israel is like the Nazi’s in every single way. They want to keep expanding their lebensraum and genocide everyone who isn’t of their race.
Deplacing the Palestinians would only worsen the problem because they are not the problem, israel is.
I support an elected government with secular state thank you
So you support the displacement of the people of israel?
- Where to?
- Which people? Anyone who is an Israeli citizen?
You know, when you advantage a hypothetical displacement over an ongoing one, the implicit argument is that Israelis are superior to Palestinians. You’re asking: wouldn’t it be horrible for the Palestinians to do to the Israelis what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians?
If you think it’s unfair to displace one oppressed people in favor of another, then yea, I agree.
And the slogan is “Palestine will be free”. It isn’t that Israelis will be exiled or some shit. It is a call for liberation of all people.
Let’s also not forget that these people didn’t seem to care that Israel very much engaged in “from the river to the sea” when they continued to displace and marginalize the majority-population mid-20th century as dictated by outside nations.
And if the world was that concerned over the refugees of the Holocaust, why didn’t the British or Poland volunteer a piece of their own land?
I mean, it’s because the antisemites wanted to get rid of their Jewish population. Belfour (of the declaration fame) was wildly antisemitic.
Let’s also not forget that these people didn’t seem to care that Israel very much engaged in “from the river to the sea” when they continued to displace and marginalize the majority-population mid-20th century as dictated by outside nations.
This was actually in the original charter for Likud
The thing is that nobody cares about Holocaust survivors, Israel has completely forgotten about them and most died in abject poverty despite the world paying lip service with millions in charity and repairs ending up in the pockets of zionist politicians while the holocaust survivors suffered and starved.
Umm. Generalize much? Sure there are some people fitting that description but the vast majority of holocaust survivora have led hugely successful lives. Heck, they built Israel.
I think it’s unfair to expect a people to just belly up and die because Jihadists are using their own people as human shields. There have been over 7 times where the Palestinian people have had a chance to establish an actual state. They refused each and every time. So I’m struggling to see a parallel between what Israel is doing (defending its people) vs what you are suggesting.
I think it’s unfair to expect a people to just belly up and die
This makes it sound like Israel’s existence depends on the Palestinian people NOT being free
What a coincidence, it does.
The Palestinian people have had many many options to accept a two state solution and “be free”. But they will never be free because their leaders only want the distruction of Israel and death of all jews. And, since the people and the rest of the world are intent on critisizing only Israel and making no moves towards freeing the Palestinian people from Hamas, they will NOT be free.
I’m Palestinian, grew up in a Palestinian family, went to lots of protests, “Kill all Jews” is not something people say out or appreciate. The problem is with Zionists, not Jew.
That being said, totally legal to march in Israel and chant “Death to all Arabs”
Ok. I assume you don’t live in Gaza. Because then you’d be learning antisemitism in school: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/eu-study-confirms-incitement-in-palestinian-textbooks
And I assume you don’t go to mosque because then you’d be hearing about gharqad
And probably didn’t attend these protests: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/death-to-the-jews-chants-heard-at-berlin-pro-palestinian-rally/amp/
Yes, antisemitism exists. No, Palestinians as a collective don’t want to kill all Jews. The Israel government on the other hand is adamant to kill every last Palestinian or ethnically cleanse them with forced displacement.
And no, I did not go to those protests, and if I did I would have spoken up about it and not let people chant such bullshit.
And no, I don’t go to mosques, I’m an atheist.
Ah yes and the antisemitism in books claim:
One religious studies textbook asks students to discuss the “repeated attempts by the Jews to kill the prophet” Muhammad and asks who are “other enemies of Islam.”
This is a historical event, regarding specifically the Jewish tribes near Mecca. That being said, fuck Mohammed and fuck Israel just the same.
A math text showed a picture of Palestinians hitting Israeli soldiers with slingshots to describe Newton’s second law of motion.
LOL. What is the issue exactly? Doesn’t say “Jews”, says specifically hitting an Israel soldier, as one should when all means of resistance have run out.
Another textbook “promotes a conspiracy theory that Israel removed the original stones of ancient sites in Jerusalem and replaced them with ones bearing “Zionist drawings and shapes.”
Yes, good example of antisemitism, haven’t double checked this though and don’t really know what it refers to 🤔 pretty sure Israel ruined all sorts of historical Palestinian sites anyway.
About Dalal Al Maghrebi, yeah, that’s bad, I agree, she should not be hailed as a hero.
From the River to the Sea does not necessarily insinuate that all Israelis will be displaced, killed, etc.
At minimum, the Israeli state should be abolished. I think first generation settlers who aren’t refugees and can return to their home country should probably leave.
Please go on. Where should the jews go? Which countries in the world would gladly accept 7 million jews? And by abolishing the Israel state I assume you are a big supporter of Sharia law. So no women rights, all LGBT people should be put to death, etc…
Did I say they all had to leave?
-
Whatever country they come from or to new palestine if that’s not possible.
-
Yes, all Israelis
- Hang on, don’t stop. Which countries? And by new palastine do you mean the one controlled by Hamas who have kill all jews and christians in their charter? So basically just kill everyone who is currently living in Israel?
- So all the christian and muslim arabs who are Israeli citizens too. Right? You wouldn’t want to come off as a racist impliying only jews should be displaced would you?
1.The countries they came from. They are Jewish settlers. I.e they came from other countries to settle I’m palestianian land. So they should return to the (mostly European) countries they came from. Or they can join they can emigrate elsewhere if they don’t feel safe lying in the bed they made with how they treated Palestinians.
Just like any other decolonisation effort, the colonisers need to leave or they can stay and try and integrate or face retribution for their colonisation. Are you going to feel bad for British colonisers that got caught and displaced during revolutions in the BE?
- Yes obviously, hence why I spoke about Israel and not about Jews. Its a decolonisation effort, so they either leave to their country of origin, emmegrate elsewhere or becomes citizens of a decolonisation Palestine. You trying to imply I’m being antisemitic just shows you don’t actually care about the issue and are just using usual tactics to try and win an argument on the internet.
So you’re calling for decolonization of all countries in the world? Every person should immigrate back to their country of origin? And how long back is “country of origin” defined? Do you acknowledge that all Jewish people originate from Israel or is that something we need to debate as well?
Obviously not, lots of countries have already been decolonised and most over aren’t colonised in the first place. Or if you argue the toss (which is all you seek to be able to do) they were colonised so long ago that there is no way to actually decolonise them. Like say England.
But if you come down to earth for a moment. Israel was created <100 years ago, and there still exists Palestine and its people that had their land stolen from. Much of which was stolen very recently. Acting like there’s no difference between this situation and every other country is dishonest at best and I’m sure you’re already aware of that.
Now do you actually care about this or a you just trying to win an Internet argument against someone who disagreed with you.
“there still exists Palestine and its people”. No. Before the state of Israel there was the british occupation. Before that the turkish ottoman empire. Before that there was an Egyptian rule and so on and so on. There were wars and the rule of this specific piece of land changed. At no point in history was there ever a Palstinian country. There is no Palestinian that can trace his lineage to some Palestinian hundreds of years ago. During all of history there were both jewish and arabs living in Israel. Calling the jewish people of Israel “colonists” is trying to change history and paint it as if jews came on ships to this country like conquistadors. After WW2, the UN decided that, maybe, after trying to exterminate the jewish people, it would make sense to give them some small pice of land to officially call their own. The arabs, instead of accepting the split launched a war in whclich they lost. And yes, many people were evicted from theor homes. Such is war. Then, they had multiple chances to accept peace offerings and build a country, instead they kept rejecting the offers and kept launching attacks at Israel. Culminating with the oct/7 attack which is where we find ourselves today. As i mentioned earlier, you and many around the world would like the Jews to just die. That won’t happen. What you should be doing is making memes about Hamas and how they keep enriching their leaders pockets and building terror infrastructure instead of helping the Palestinian people.
At no point in history was there ever a Palestinian country
Then why did the Brits use the word Palestine?
There is no Palestinian that can trace his lineage to some Palestinian hundreds of years ago.
Are you like a disinformation bot??? How do you even suggest to prove this claim???
-
