Star Trek. There’s a character, 7/9, who starts the series identifying as nonbinary. 7/9 is held prisoner by the protagonists and its cybernetic implants are surgically removed, and then the captain of the ship grooms it into, in her own words, “becoming a woman”. There’s also an undercurrent of homophobia in the whole situation, because “becoming a woman” means pursuing men. I’m nonbinary and intersex, and in a conversation where I said I identified with 7/9, Stamets (a cis guy), called me a transphobic troll for having a gender similar to 7/9’s. He also said I was deadnaming “Seven” by referring to it with numerals instead of letters.
7/9’s story is not simple and it’s not unproblematic. I can understand why a trans woman would identity with 7/9 for similar reasons that I did. But when a cis guy says his interpretation is the only correct one, talks over trans people, and accuses me of faking my gender, that crosses a line. Stamets believes that my gender is transphobic, because it supposedly harms the respectability of binary trans people who aim to assimilate into patriarchal culture.
Uhhhhhhh um. Ok so. Seven of nine. Personally, I’d say that an abducted child who was forcefully desexed and dehumanized, mutilated, and brainwashed into essentially a cult, is not equivalent to identifying as asexual. Just my take. If you legitimately watch the show, as she’s being de-assimilated, there are many teary eyed, touching moments where she remembers who she was pre-borg. This is a good thing. She’s processing her trauma from her time as a Borg, and re-identifying as her original self, with support from people who rescued her and loved her enough to not just kill her instead. It’s a heartwarming story in my opinion as a nonbinary childhood abuse victim who recently came to terms with who I really am outside of the shadow of my past.
an abducted child who was forcefully desexed and dehumanized, mutilated, and brainwashed into essentially a cult
Keep in mind that after it was separated from the collective while crying out in pain and despair, it was then forcefully sexed, forcefully humanized, mutilated, and brainwashed. It cries in pain every time it is reminded of its time with humans at the beginning of its life, back when it was forced to identify as female because it was born with a vagina.
I do not argue that the Borg are in the right. But I certainly think that the Federation are at least as much in the wrong as the Borg are. There is no textual evidence that 7/9 ever chose a female identity or accepted one willingly. It cried in pain and dysphoria and dread when it was mutilated and forcefully sexed. I cried the same way when I, an asexual nonbinary person, was forcefully sexed by puberty. When every adult I knew said I would have to participate in heterosexuality and I had no choice. I pursued hetereosexual relationships because I was told I had to.
We don’t have enough stories about trans women. But we have ONE story about dronegender people. Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjuct of Unimatrix Zero One. That is the ONLY story we have. There are no other stories in the whole world about people like me. I don’t think trans women have enough representation in media. But why do they have to claim a “trans woman” who was given surgery against its will as one of them, when I have absolutely nothing?
Stamets does not even say the two stories can exist in parallel. Stamets says my very existence is an insult to trans women. That claiming the only representation of my gender in the whole world is transphobic.
Oh oh oh, one more thing real quick. You would agree that you are born your gender, regardless of physical sexual characteristics like genitals, correct? So transgender people have been transgender since birth and are just now coming out. Agender/genderqueer/genderfluid people were born like that as well. Seven of nine was not born a Borg drone. That is not their gender. She was born as a female human child. I do not know, nor does anyone know how she would have expressed herself if she had not been assimilated, but I’d put money on the theory that she would not choose to identify as a Borg. Borg are by their very nature, not a gender, because they have been changed from their preferred expression.
You would agree that you are born your gender, regardless of physical sexual characteristics like genitals, correct?
No. Nobody is born a man, woman, boy, girl, or anything else. Babies have no gender. Gender identity begins developing at age 2-3, solidifies at age 4, and continues to develop into adulthood. In some people, such as genderfluid people, it never solidifies into a single state. Psychologists have demonstrated that gender forms during early childhood at length. Sociologists have for a very long time said that gender is a social construct (NOT a biological one), and have pointed out that different cultures have different numbers of genders. Do you think it’s a cosmic coincidence that bissu-gender people are only born in Bugis society and not in other cultures? No. The bissu gender, like all genders, is socially formed.
No, that’s an overly specific definition. Broadly, a drone is any agent remotely controlled by another intelligence. For example, computer scientists create swarms of drones in simulations, robotocists create drones for photography and the military, science fiction writers write stories about drones in space, and offices are full of drones that do little to no thinking for themselves.
There are no other stories in the world about people like me
This story is about a woman who was physically altered with hundreds of robotic implants and conditioned to not have individual thoughts. I can guarantee that you did not go through that, because it’s fictional.
I’m sorry, but from a cursory search on Google and duckduckgo, there is no such thing as dronegender, except for 1 single article posted 2 weeks ago. I must therefore assume that this article is about you? Personally I think you’re applying your own experiences to a fictional character, getting upset when others don’t agree with your interpretation of that character, and throwing insults when people disagree with you.
If, in fact, that one single article is about you, you admit to being a narcissist
I think the way my femininity presents itself is deeply tied with my narcissism
This aligns with the interpretation above, that your feelings are the only thing you care about. Please refrain from speaking so harshly about a beloved community member, especially if you have not yet actually shared any direct quotes or links to your supposed discussion.
I don’t want to play psychologist, especially because I’m not qualified, but I would not be surprised if you’re using your identification as “dronegender” as a defense mechanism to validate your experiences and feelings. I would like to mention that all feelings and experiences can be validated without having to cling to a fictional character so aggressively, and essentially arguing in their stead, as if you know what they feel. Remember, star-trek is a work of fiction. It is made up by people to entertain others. You are a person. You are real. You are not a Borg drone, even if you can relate to them.
Edited to add: The only other reference to dronegender, is in a list of genders on the nonbinary wiki. There is no page for that entry, and the edit was made 21 days ago. I will assume that this is also you.
The person in that article isn’t me. But if it were me, then who the hell are the other people that drone mentions being in their swarm? They say there’s 4 drones and a queen.
I’m gonna be clear; I don’t like you. You think that xenogenders require sources. That’s absurd. You also look down on people with mental disorders like NPD. I think you’re transphobic and ableist, and a gatekeeper. I don’t care about your opinion of 7/9, because you’ve not given me any evidence you respect nonbinary people other than yourself. You’ve given me evidence that you’ll attack fellow nonbinary people for their disabilities and doubt their own experiences.
The existence of drones as a kink (which that carrd does specifically call out for some reason) is explicitly offensive to me and it’s the one kink I’m unafraid to shame. A mind or a body is a lovely thing to have, and one should remain in charge of their own.
can you please stop kinkshaming people and shaming people for having a raunchier or more fetishistic gender? you can thank the people who “strangely” sexualize shit like bondage or leather for your rights today as a queer person. these “weirdos” are the ones who will actually fight for your right and for your very existence as whoever you want to be. if you want to be close minded just because a gender is raunchy and naughty, then do as you please. but I would like it if you, instead of commenting, took some time and analyzed the idea of downright dismissing someone’s gender because it’s a fetish. dronegender people aren’t the ones who take away human rights left and right; cisgender heterosexual people, the ones whose genders aren’t what you view as a “fetish” do. this stuff is absolutely harmless to you and to the people who engage in it. for many people, being part of a wider swarm can, in fact, wound a part of their personality disorder which quite literally affects their ego and their sense of self-worth, both as the leader or the follower of the swarm. and if it can help people be better, who are we to judge and ostracize them?
If, in fact, that one single article is about you, you admit to being a narcissist
okay, the fact you need to point that out is absolutely ridiculous. what’s wrong with being narcissistic? nobody chooses to be one.
Please refrain from speaking so harshly about a beloved community member
if your “beloved community member” is pretty much willing to deny the lived experiences and interpretation of an intersex person, someone whose experiences and identity are still widely discriminated against and quite literally forcibly put surgeries upon from a young age for them to fit within the binary sex/gender bullshit that’s forced upon all of us, then maybe your community should rethink its standards and its views on intersex people.
I don’t want to play psychologist, especially because I’m not qualified, but
the typical “I don’t want to do something that’s clearly wrong and bigoted, but” response. if someone were to say “I don’t want to be racist, especially since I attended a BLM protest, but [spews out racist stuff]”, you’d understand that is wrong. So why not understand that when you’re armchair diagnosing someone, you could be ableist towards them?
I’m mention the narcissism because it’s relevant to the topic of you playing victim and harassing a gay man for days, maybe weeks, maybe months, because of a difference of opinion.
I sure love someone playing the victim here. Also “difference of opinion”? I love how you’re repeating fascist talking points here.
You are continuing to edit wiki articles, make alt accounts, and make targeted harassing statements
let’s address these points one by one. you first say that person edits Wiki articles. as if… that’s a problem? they’re that gender, they have the sources and information to gather for their own gender, and we all know gender is a far more complex and subjective concept than, say, atoms or molecules. those ones are pretty objective and verifiable, but gender isn’t, because gender is a part of the self, a part of the whole experience, which does include sexuality and the alike.
Psychology is not bigoted. It is a science. I enjoy researching it as a hobby, but am not an expert.
every science can hold bigoted beliefs that are then rationalized and justified as science. did you not learn about “race science” or about the Nazis? they used “science” to justify their beliefs that Black or Jewish people should be wiped off the Earth. you’re also using “science” to justify bigotry against narcissistic people.
You have still yet to show me any shred of evidence of him saying what you claim he said.
this is how I’m going to prove it to you that your claims of me being an alt — which shows a lot about you and not me — by saying this: I don’t know what he actually said, but I know what you and what DroneRights said. and I have engaged with the subject of queer theory and queerness in general for a number of years on many other social medias before joining this one today. this is my first ever exposure to this topic and I genuinely do not know what he said, but I can tell that its arguments are far more convincing and elaborate than yours, and that your arguments are pretty much internet fascist rhetoric for the most part.
No, my position is that I have never ever, not once (I am in lots of queer communities) met anyone who has ever said “dronegender” except for you. And the fact that all mentions online are from a very short recency, seems to paint a picture of a single person. It’s not bias or bigotry. It’s statistics.
It is defamatory, I don’t want a transphobe to be famous. Stamets called me a troll for identifying as nonbinary. We had a conversation about an asexual nonbinary character in Star Trek who gets surgically and socially conditioned into a heterosexual woman. I said maybe that’s a better nonbinary horror story than a transfemme liberation story. Stamets, a cis guy, insisted that his interpretation is the only correct one because nobody really identifies like this character, and the fact I say I’m nonbinary like this character makes me a troll.
Staments is generally very attacky, he plays childish games with people who disagree with him. But people defend him/he gets a pass because of all the memes he reposts from other sources.
His behaviour (and also the fact there is no new star trek at the moment) has me hardly using my account on startrek.website
My impressions of him align with yours perfectly, and I’d love to have more evidence of his poor behaviour to present in situations like this. Can you tell me more?
I mean its just bickering about startrek here - but when you go to a specific instance to talk about star trek and he plays edit games to belittle people it sort of takes the fun out it. It’s nothing as serious as gender/identity etc
May I see a link to that conversation? To make an unbiased opinion? I’m nonbinary as well, but you seem very upset so I can’t take your word at face value
Oh great it’s the troll with 40 different accounts using 3 different names that is banned everywhere. Hardlightcereal aka dronerights aka pm_me_fat_enbies aka probably some more
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You seem to have a lot of anger. I hope you find a positive way to manage that.
Yeah, I’m solving my anger by campaigning to get rid of the bigotries that make me angry
context?
Star Trek. There’s a character, 7/9, who starts the series identifying as nonbinary. 7/9 is held prisoner by the protagonists and its cybernetic implants are surgically removed, and then the captain of the ship grooms it into, in her own words, “becoming a woman”. There’s also an undercurrent of homophobia in the whole situation, because “becoming a woman” means pursuing men. I’m nonbinary and intersex, and in a conversation where I said I identified with 7/9, Stamets (a cis guy), called me a transphobic troll for having a gender similar to 7/9’s. He also said I was deadnaming “Seven” by referring to it with numerals instead of letters.
7/9’s story is not simple and it’s not unproblematic. I can understand why a trans woman would identity with 7/9 for similar reasons that I did. But when a cis guy says his interpretation is the only correct one, talks over trans people, and accuses me of faking my gender, that crosses a line. Stamets believes that my gender is transphobic, because it supposedly harms the respectability of binary trans people who aim to assimilate into patriarchal culture.
Uhhhhhhh um. Ok so. Seven of nine. Personally, I’d say that an abducted child who was forcefully desexed and dehumanized, mutilated, and brainwashed into essentially a cult, is not equivalent to identifying as asexual. Just my take. If you legitimately watch the show, as she’s being de-assimilated, there are many teary eyed, touching moments where she remembers who she was pre-borg. This is a good thing. She’s processing her trauma from her time as a Borg, and re-identifying as her original self, with support from people who rescued her and loved her enough to not just kill her instead. It’s a heartwarming story in my opinion as a nonbinary childhood abuse victim who recently came to terms with who I really am outside of the shadow of my past.
Keep in mind that after it was separated from the collective while crying out in pain and despair, it was then forcefully sexed, forcefully humanized, mutilated, and brainwashed. It cries in pain every time it is reminded of its time with humans at the beginning of its life, back when it was forced to identify as female because it was born with a vagina.
I do not argue that the Borg are in the right. But I certainly think that the Federation are at least as much in the wrong as the Borg are. There is no textual evidence that 7/9 ever chose a female identity or accepted one willingly. It cried in pain and dysphoria and dread when it was mutilated and forcefully sexed. I cried the same way when I, an asexual nonbinary person, was forcefully sexed by puberty. When every adult I knew said I would have to participate in heterosexuality and I had no choice. I pursued hetereosexual relationships because I was told I had to.
We don’t have enough stories about trans women. But we have ONE story about dronegender people. Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjuct of Unimatrix Zero One. That is the ONLY story we have. There are no other stories in the whole world about people like me. I don’t think trans women have enough representation in media. But why do they have to claim a “trans woman” who was given surgery against its will as one of them, when I have absolutely nothing?
Stamets does not even say the two stories can exist in parallel. Stamets says my very existence is an insult to trans women. That claiming the only representation of my gender in the whole world is transphobic.
Oh oh oh, one more thing real quick. You would agree that you are born your gender, regardless of physical sexual characteristics like genitals, correct? So transgender people have been transgender since birth and are just now coming out. Agender/genderqueer/genderfluid people were born like that as well. Seven of nine was not born a Borg drone. That is not their gender. She was born as a female human child. I do not know, nor does anyone know how she would have expressed herself if she had not been assimilated, but I’d put money on the theory that she would not choose to identify as a Borg. Borg are by their very nature, not a gender, because they have been changed from their preferred expression.
No. Nobody is born a man, woman, boy, girl, or anything else. Babies have no gender. Gender identity begins developing at age 2-3, solidifies at age 4, and continues to develop into adulthood. In some people, such as genderfluid people, it never solidifies into a single state. Psychologists have demonstrated that gender forms during early childhood at length. Sociologists have for a very long time said that gender is a social construct (NOT a biological one), and have pointed out that different cultures have different numbers of genders. Do you think it’s a cosmic coincidence that bissu-gender people are only born in Bugis society and not in other cultures? No. The bissu gender, like all genders, is socially formed.
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Those studies that say age 4 are not absolute, as I said, some humans retain a fluid gender. And besides that, Borg do not have human neurochemistry.
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No, that’s an overly specific definition. Broadly, a drone is any agent remotely controlled by another intelligence. For example, computer scientists create swarms of drones in simulations, robotocists create drones for photography and the military, science fiction writers write stories about drones in space, and offices are full of drones that do little to no thinking for themselves.
This story is about a woman who was physically altered with hundreds of robotic implants and conditioned to not have individual thoughts. I can guarantee that you did not go through that, because it’s fictional.
I’m sorry, but from a cursory search on Google and duckduckgo, there is no such thing as dronegender, except for 1 single article posted 2 weeks ago. I must therefore assume that this article is about you? Personally I think you’re applying your own experiences to a fictional character, getting upset when others don’t agree with your interpretation of that character, and throwing insults when people disagree with you.
If, in fact, that one single article is about you, you admit to being a narcissist
This aligns with the interpretation above, that your feelings are the only thing you care about. Please refrain from speaking so harshly about a beloved community member, especially if you have not yet actually shared any direct quotes or links to your supposed discussion.
I don’t want to play psychologist, especially because I’m not qualified, but I would not be surprised if you’re using your identification as “dronegender” as a defense mechanism to validate your experiences and feelings. I would like to mention that all feelings and experiences can be validated without having to cling to a fictional character so aggressively, and essentially arguing in their stead, as if you know what they feel. Remember, star-trek is a work of fiction. It is made up by people to entertain others. You are a person. You are real. You are not a Borg drone, even if you can relate to them.
Edited to add: The only other reference to dronegender, is in a list of genders on the nonbinary wiki. There is no page for that entry, and the edit was made 21 days ago. I will assume that this is also you.
You can read more here: https://swarmgender.carrd.co
The person in that article isn’t me. But if it were me, then who the hell are the other people that drone mentions being in their swarm? They say there’s 4 drones and a queen.
I’m gonna be clear; I don’t like you. You think that xenogenders require sources. That’s absurd. You also look down on people with mental disorders like NPD. I think you’re transphobic and ableist, and a gatekeeper. I don’t care about your opinion of 7/9, because you’ve not given me any evidence you respect nonbinary people other than yourself. You’ve given me evidence that you’ll attack fellow nonbinary people for their disabilities and doubt their own experiences.
The existence of drones as a kink (which that carrd does specifically call out for some reason) is explicitly offensive to me and it’s the one kink I’m unafraid to shame. A mind or a body is a lovely thing to have, and one should remain in charge of their own.
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Yes, I sexualise people of my own gender. It’s called being gay, you fucking homophobe. Do I “admit” to being gay? Yes, I do.
can you please stop kinkshaming people and shaming people for having a raunchier or more fetishistic gender? you can thank the people who “strangely” sexualize shit like bondage or leather for your rights today as a queer person. these “weirdos” are the ones who will actually fight for your right and for your very existence as whoever you want to be. if you want to be close minded just because a gender is raunchy and naughty, then do as you please. but I would like it if you, instead of commenting, took some time and analyzed the idea of downright dismissing someone’s gender because it’s a fetish. dronegender people aren’t the ones who take away human rights left and right; cisgender heterosexual people, the ones whose genders aren’t what you view as a “fetish” do. this stuff is absolutely harmless to you and to the people who engage in it. for many people, being part of a wider swarm can, in fact, wound a part of their personality disorder which quite literally affects their ego and their sense of self-worth, both as the leader or the follower of the swarm. and if it can help people be better, who are we to judge and ostracize them?
okay, the fact you need to point that out is absolutely ridiculous. what’s wrong with being narcissistic? nobody chooses to be one.
if your “beloved community member” is pretty much willing to deny the lived experiences and interpretation of an intersex person, someone whose experiences and identity are still widely discriminated against and quite literally forcibly put surgeries upon from a young age for them to fit within the binary sex/gender bullshit that’s forced upon all of us, then maybe your community should rethink its standards and its views on intersex people.
the typical “I don’t want to do something that’s clearly wrong and bigoted, but” response. if someone were to say “I don’t want to be racist, especially since I attended a BLM protest, but [spews out racist stuff]”, you’d understand that is wrong. So why not understand that when you’re armchair diagnosing someone, you could be ableist towards them?
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I sure love someone playing the victim here. Also “difference of opinion”? I love how you’re repeating fascist talking points here.
let’s address these points one by one. you first say that person edits Wiki articles. as if… that’s a problem? they’re that gender, they have the sources and information to gather for their own gender, and we all know gender is a far more complex and subjective concept than, say, atoms or molecules. those ones are pretty objective and verifiable, but gender isn’t, because gender is a part of the self, a part of the whole experience, which does include sexuality and the alike.
every science can hold bigoted beliefs that are then rationalized and justified as science. did you not learn about “race science” or about the Nazis? they used “science” to justify their beliefs that Black or Jewish people should be wiped off the Earth. you’re also using “science” to justify bigotry against narcissistic people.
this is how I’m going to prove it to you that your claims of me being an alt — which shows a lot about you and not me — by saying this: I don’t know what he actually said, but I know what you and what DroneRights said. and I have engaged with the subject of queer theory and queerness in general for a number of years on many other social medias before joining this one today. this is my first ever exposure to this topic and I genuinely do not know what he said, but I can tell that its arguments are far more convincing and elaborate than yours, and that your arguments are pretty much internet fascist rhetoric for the most part.
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No, my position is that I have never ever, not once (I am in lots of queer communities) met anyone who has ever said “dronegender” except for you. And the fact that all mentions online are from a very short recency, seems to paint a picture of a single person. It’s not bias or bigotry. It’s statistics.
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I haven’t met another drone on the fediverse. I’ve met other drones.
Uhhhhh care to elaborate? Because that statement could be seen as defamatory
It is defamatory, I don’t want a transphobe to be famous. Stamets called me a troll for identifying as nonbinary. We had a conversation about an asexual nonbinary character in Star Trek who gets surgically and socially conditioned into a heterosexual woman. I said maybe that’s a better nonbinary horror story than a transfemme liberation story. Stamets, a cis guy, insisted that his interpretation is the only correct one because nobody really identifies like this character, and the fact I say I’m nonbinary like this character makes me a troll.
Staments is generally very attacky, he plays childish games with people who disagree with him. But people defend him/he gets a pass because of all the memes he reposts from other sources.
His behaviour (and also the fact there is no new star trek at the moment) has me hardly using my account on startrek.website
My impressions of him align with yours perfectly, and I’d love to have more evidence of his poor behaviour to present in situations like this. Can you tell me more?
I mean its just bickering about startrek here - but when you go to a specific instance to talk about star trek and he plays edit games to belittle people it sort of takes the fun out it. It’s nothing as serious as gender/identity etc
May I see a link to that conversation? To make an unbiased opinion? I’m nonbinary as well, but you seem very upset so I can’t take your word at face value
You know this user and that corvid of the night user are the same person, right?
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Oh great it’s the troll with 40 different accounts using 3 different names that is banned everywhere. Hardlightcereal aka dronerights aka pm_me_fat_enbies aka probably some more