The Voice will be independent of the Government of the day.
Not True.
the Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
Hexbear deny genocides
What? who? No. We deny alleged genocides that lack supporting evidence like the Uyghur “genocide” created by Zenz the cristo-fascist and Nazi sympathiser. We also deny the labelling of the Holodomor as genocide because it was caused by selfish kulak farmers resisting collectivization by burning crops and killing livestock and effected many ethnicities including Russians.
I don’t disagree with most of what you said but if you think a Yes vote is going to change the status quo you are going to be disappointed. The referendum passing will do as much for the next generation as “Closing the gap” did for this one only the lack of action will be blamed on the Voice not on the government.
fair enough
The solution is simple. Do what the Uluru statement says. Make a voice for Indigenous Peoples that is enshrined in the constitution.
Don’t settle for a cardboard cut out version of the voice. Be angry that the racists running your country would try to lie to you to pretend that this will fix things. Be mad that they would waste so much money and time and effort to do a performative gesture. Tell them you are angry.
Do you expect Oil companies and Coal miners to stop pollution on their own? Why would you expect the colonial government operating on stolen land to actually force themselves to have accountability to the very people who they are stealing from? Voting Yes for the current amendment is just encouraging the poor behaviour. Its enabling the quiet racists and helping them hide.
Our government needs to be bullied and harassed until they have no choice to do what is right. They will not do it voluntarily. If they pass this referendum they will act like their last place participation ribbon in the anti-racism olympics is a world record setting gold medal and they will never strive anything better.
Lets just say he has some problematic ideas. He has been involved in professions prone to causing extensive brain damage. I’m not going to say his entire opinion is wrong but he uses buzz words and phrases that are common is far-right and conspiracy theory circles.
There are more qualified people who have good credibility like Lidia Thorpe who’s arguments are well formed and don’t inadvertently reference less reputable ideas.
I’ve explained extensively why the referendum rubbish elsewhere in the thread. I can’t enlighten you if you refuse to pull your head out of where the sun doesn’t shine.
I mean Mundie isn’t the greatest person to link to.
You can be pro-Voice and anti referendum. The issue is that the proposed amendment is offensively ineffectual.
Claiming that the progressive NO has no path forward is intellectually dishonest. Just because you don’t know what it is doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
“Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a racist even the Aboriginal Australians”
So good to have people like you willing to debate in good faith using facts and reason.
‘May’ is used, (in addition to other reasons) because otherwise it creates a legal obligation on the Voice, to make representations.
It is up to the voice to make representations and the voice should want to make a representation on everything that effects Aboriginal Australians. Eve if the representation is “I don’t hate this” The word may means the government isn’t obligated to receive representations. As it is right now anyone “may” make a representation to parliament but it is up to parliament to accept or ignore such representations. The wording in the proposed amendment changes nothing.
And “shall receive” still puts the legal/constitutional obligation on the Voice to come up with and present those representations
If the voice wants to be heard it has to do the talking. (I feel stupid for having to say that) Who else should have the responsibility to make and present representations for the voice other than the voice?
The current wording doesn’t force them to make representations, and more importantly, doesn’t mean the creation and the Voice having to follow strict rules about when, how, and how often those representations are made.
Sure but the wording also doesn’t force Parliament receive the representations either. They could receive a single representation once a decade and claim to have done their duty. Because the powers and construction of the voice is left to the Parliament to legislate and future governments to modify the government ultimately decides when and how the Voice can speak. It is a soft form gag order.
And also importantly, can’t be closed down and discontinued through a legislative act of parliament.
The don’t have to close down the voice they can just defund and declaw it till it is inoffensive. Again the funding, composition, and powers of the voice are all subject to legislature and thus not enshrined in the constitution.
Removed by mod
May is discretionary but it is not clear in this instance as to who decides… until the last line where it says that parliament gets to decide the powers of the voice. It is clear that the voice has the choice to not make representations but it is not cut and dry that Parliament must accept representations.
If they wanted it cut and dry they would have said “the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth shall receive any representations on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples made by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice” instead of using “may” which is subject to challenges.
You seems to think this amendment was written by people who want what is best for Aboriginal Australians and not made by people who directly benefit from the injustices committed against Aboriginal Australians.
the voice will only be able to “make representations to” parliament, just like everyone else.
Not “able” the voice “may” make representations. Who decides when they may? Oh right that is left to parliament.
Its a gag order written in a passive tone.
I have read the Uluru statement. It asks for a voice that is enshrined in the constitution. The referendum does nothing to enshrine the voice in the constitution. The wording of the proposed amendment leave all the details of how the voice is implemented up to government and subject to its whims.
What good is a voice that is subject to parliament? If the government of the day can stack it with sycophants or gut it at a whim they can negotiate a treaty on the worst possible terms. The process of how the voice is structured, chosen, and its powers need to be enshrined in the constitution and the proposed amendment does not do that.
What if a no vote is used as ‘proof’ no one wants indigenous representation
A No result could just as easily be blamed on the poor wording of the referendum.
Show your fucking work.
No need to be so aggressive I’m trying to debate here in good faith. Read the proposed amendment.
Parliament shall … have power to make laws … relating to the … Voice.
So all they are doing is giving parliament the power to do something that it already has the power to do. The amendment doesn’t even go as far to say that any changes to the voice after it is established would need 3/4 majority or any other protections. The amendment is a nothingburger.
What if the throwing of the bucket is used by the arsonists as justification for not calling the fire truck? What if the bucket was built by the people who have acted in the interests of the arsonists in the first place? What if the bucket isn’t full of water it is just a bucket?
This has to be a bit right? Real people cant be that stupid can they?
I disagree with your opinions they are vibes based and not based on historical evidence. Expecting members of the government to work against their own self interests is silly.