This is also why corporate and/or establishment types can justify voting for non-conservative, populist Trump and his lackeys. They’re getting so obscenely rich and powerful thanks to Trump’s SCOTUS picks that nothing else could possibly ever outweigh the short-term gains for them.
That’s all the media can do nowadays. It’s a bunch of journalism graduates twiddling their fingers while cranking out endless “Read the Tea Leaves!” type articles. Everything nowadays is “survey says this”, “polls say that”, “model says this”, “odds predict this or that”. It’s literally everywhere from sports to politics to the stock market, it requires zero thought or in-depth analysis, and it’s both a response to and a cause of the decline in mainstream and investigative journalism. It’s team-based tribalism through and through.
Regurgitation pieces require no formal journalistic training, can be produced with almost no research time, can be cranked out en masse, and can be subjectively framed to grab eyeballs because there’s no entity able to claim libel if it’s misrepresented. It’s yellow journalism, plain and simple, and gullible rubes lap that shit up without a second’s hesitation because it tells them something saucy that makes them feel vindicated.
They’re extrapolating trends from just over ONE year of data. The survey was started in 2023, which means statements like this ring very hollow:
Second, the year-over-year change in worry for this population is large and significant. In April 2023, 20.7 percent of those who could currently pay all of their bills were worried about the next six months; one year later, 26.2 percent reported worries, with nearly every demographic group showing large and significant increases as well. We did not observe such a year-over-year increase in our previous report (comparing January 2023 with January 2024).
And from that we get Matt Egan’s overarching conclusion that “wealthy Americans are struggling to make ends meet”, which conflicts with the findings that only 6.9% of people earning more than $150k/yr are reporting that they can’t currently make ends meet (6% of those making more than $100k/yr). Or, in other words, 93.1% of people earning more than $150k/yr can currently make ends meet. (someone tell Egan!) But the surveyors go on to claim that it’s a significant uptick from 3.4% a year ago, which is true (yay!). You know what it’s not a significant uptick from? The very next survey (i.e. July), which tallied a 6% rate of not being able to make ends meet. That number then fell to 3.0% in October before jumping again in January, then again in April.
Those numbers go up significantly when forecasting out 0-6 months, and then 7-12 months. The numbers for high earners go up to 32.5% and 33%, respectively. You know what’s happening in just under 6 months? A pretty significant election! And to what do these high earners attribute their inability to make ends meet? Job insecurity? Medical expenses? Global instability? Inflation?
Who the fuck knows?! The survey is decidedly silent on that front. But that didn’t stop Matt Egan from scrapping together the most fear-inducing, clickbait headline he could muster for our next dose of doom-fuel.
Lol, yep. Oh you spray lots of stuff that’s designed to kill bugs? I think it might be killing lots of bugs!
Part of your anger seems to stem from me saying that this whole thing isn’t moving forward fast enough and somehow you think that’s a critique of your personal work. I assure you that wasn’t my goal. But you have to admit that we are, globally, not moving fast enough.
No, the part that bothers me is you’re completely ignoring the point I’ve made multiple times, namely that this protest is counterproductive and doesn’t actually do anything to change the situation. It just pisses people off. It doesn’t promote climate action or change the amount that people care about it or want to do something about it.
The connection to the fight for racial equality is interesting but I’m not sure how well this applies. How do you suppose you can do anything equivalently “not accepting the rules we want to protest” in the context of climate change? Because before there was a big movement there were just a few people breaking the unfair rules. Which where likely talked similarly about as you are talking about these activists right now.
With the exception of the first, none of those sentences form a complete thought, and I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say or if there’s a question buried in there somewhere.
some forms of activism that I deem valuable would have detrimental effects on the other form of activism if done under the same name.
WHY?
This is so far beyond the point of the article I’m just not sure why you keep falling back on this singular argument. Why is that relevant? This thread started because I said the people currently sitting in prison are being lazy because they painted a rock rather than doing something productive. You’ve now latched onto some weird scenario where they can do multiple kinds of protesting but can’t do it in one organization and have to form or join splinter groups to do multiple kinds of organizing? It like you’ve convinced yourself that what JSO is doing is fine because its members are doing something else less disruptive in another group, which is so disconnected and irrelevant as to be utterly meaningless. Not to mention it’s a thing which (as far as I can tell) is entirely made up on the spot!
So again, why is one detrimental to the other? So far you’ve only said it’s confusing, but you haven’t said why it’s confusing, and you also skipped over the part where painting a rock to protest oil is also confusing.
And I’m saying one does and one does not. You’ve yet to actually demonstrate that these protests have any value or have ever moved the needle in the right direction.
You are still arguing from the perspective that activism needs to please people or else it’s “embarrassing” or “shameful”. I do agree that there is activism that displeases people, I think that is still valuable and nothing to be ashamed of.
No, I’m very clearly saying these are “more likely to cause friction and disagreement than sympathy for a cause.” For some reason you have committed to this weird hypothetical where the people currently sitting in jail have some other secondary organization they use for grassroots organization, which was a stretch when you first brought it up. I’m only speculating that you made that situation up because deep down you understand the need to disassociate yourself from these protests, and it’s increasingly clear to me that you see their value in some kind of shell game strategy, where no one knows who’s pulling the strings. But again, you made that up, not me.
But I can acknowledge that there are people that do not see that as something that should be supported. Different forms of activism have different target groups and different wanted effects. It’s just a rational thing to address different target groups and produce different effects under different names.
And water is wet. I’m saying that these protests are stupid and counterproductive. You’re now veering off into platitudes that don’t actually contribute anything to the conversation.
I want the issue front and center in the public discussion. You and I are both aware that people aren’t 100% of the time participating in the public discussion but spend time doing their own thing. Which is partially influenced by what is happening in the public discussion. If climate change is a topic, even if just tangential, that still helps influence people to think about it in the times they spend outside of the public discussion.
And what you still haven’t grasped is that climate change is not a problem because people don’t know about it. This isn’t some kind of pink ribbon campaign where we’re bringing attention to an issue that’s too often ignored as nonexistent. Climate change is front and center, it’s all encompassing, and it’s deeply imbedded with the way that our entire global economy operates. The reason we can’t deal with climate change isn’t awareness, it’s capacity and political will. If you bring up that I’m not eating enough fruit, and I tell you that I can’t afford to buy fruit on my current salary, then pelting me in the face with oranges isn’t going to get me to eat more fruit. It’s just going to piss me off.
Painting Stonehenge or pouring soup on a priceless piece of art isn’t doing anything to shine light on bad actors, or to challenge us to think about the problem differently, or to provide more information, or anything else like that. It’s just blind rage. The people who weren’t allowed to sit in whites-only cafes didn’t protest by dumping piles of trash in the street, they protested by sitting in the whites-only cafe and refusing to move. They didn’t protest having to sit in the back of the bus by painting the walls of the town hall. They protested by sitting in the front of the bus and refusing to move. They protested as throngs of people in the streets and marching across the country. This is two spoiled little shits spraying paint because they want to be the center of attention, and per your very words because they don’t want us to be able to do anything except focus on them. This kind of protest is absolutely, unequivocally ridiculous.
Again I want to thank you for your work, we need people like you. But I don’t think that’s all we need. It has become apparent that just silently working on this at the grassroots level hasn’t shown the necessary progress. So people have decided to express their opinion in more loud and disturbing manners.
No offense, but you can take a hike. There is so much actual, tangible work that happens behind the scenes that I’m actually stunned you’d say something so flatly asinine. We are making progress, and we’re doing it within existing governmental systems. We’re doing it with marketing campaigns. We’re doing it with land acquisition. We’re doing it by working with these organizations, and these organizations, and these organizations, and these organizations.
Which really just reiterates that it’s not awareness that’s the problem. It’s capacity. And painting a rock is like taking a shit in the middle of the street to protest climate change. Like, what the actual hell are you expecting to come from painting Stonehenge? And you’re trying to tell me that hundreds of thousands of people working tirelessly day in and day out to solve this issue isn’t enough, but a bunch of spoiled brats painting rocks is going to make a difference? Give me a fucking break.
Again, this protest isn’t about sympathy. I don’t think anyone is having the illusion that a majority would be happy about this kind of protest. But I think “no one gives a shit” is pretty evidently a lie. People very demonstrably give a shit about Stonehenge being orange for a little while.
I have no idea why you keep trying to twist my words. I’m saying that by doing this the only people who are going to sympathize with the cause the protestors are trying to highlight are the people who were already sympathetic with the cause the protestors are trying to highlight. And what I’m saying to you is that you’re not convincing anyone who’s not already convinced. In fact, you’re probably pissing some of your allies off in the process, so it’s quite literally counterproductive to do stupid shit like this. It hurts more than it helps.
So again, don’t come back with that same platitude that protests have to be inconvenient to be effective. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be. I’m simply saying that this is a stupid form of protest that does more harm than good and likely alienates some of your potential allies while converting and convincing absolutely NO ONE.
*your
The fact that we are talking about this and not about climate change is also partly your decision. You are free at any point to disengage this thread and focus your energy on more productive things. The fact that you’re not doing this is just one example of humans being humans and not always doing the best of all things. Me still arguing with you is of course another example.
No one in this thread or any other Lemmy thread about this situation is talking about climate change. Everyone is talking about paint on rocks.
I can repeat this as often as you want: people want to engage in different kinds of activities under different names because the actions do not relate and the messaging becomes confusing. I can both disturb the operation of a pipeline and try to mobilize locals to support the building of a solar power plant. Doing both under the same name makes everything more complicated even if there is personal overlap. I really don’t get why you are so hung up on this.
Because if you’re not embarassed or ashamed of the pipeline disturbance/damage, then you shouldn’t have a problem openly associating yourself with it. The fact that you’re trying to hard to suggest it’s prudent to distance oneself from a disruption/protest tells me that deep down you understand these things are perceived negatively and are therefore more likely to cause friction and disagreement than sympathy for a cause.
I don’t exactly get the question here. I’m not saying any of those options is particularly confusing. I’m saying doing both under the same name might get confusing for people not intimately familiar with your group and their actions.
And painting a rock is confusing to people who don’t understand what the paint or the rock have to do with climate change. Yet you’re her cheering for rock painting. Why are you worried about confusing the public in one instance but not worried about confusing the public in the other instance?
The hypothetical that you are posing instead of what I’m actually arguing for. You then argue against that hypothetical instead of my actual points. That’s a classic example of a strawman.
No, it’s a hypothetical that’s followed by a question mark. It’s also called a “thought exercise”. Nowhere did I attribute the argument to you in order to debunk it. You need to read the definition of strawman fallacy more carefully.
Yes I’m advocating for bothering people in public. Where else would you bother people?
You would bother people who aren’t already on your team and in a way that leads to a productive conversation, rather than in a way that’s completely detached from the cause and in a way that completely distracts from the issue.
That’s a choice the public is making. And again I think this is fine.
Also known as a shittily designed protest. If you set out to accomplish a goal and the public responds predictably in a way that doesn’t help you achieve that goal, you should probably reflect on the fact that your methods were shit.
That’s also fine. It’s not like there aren’t any publicly available sources on how to fight climate change. If the people are interested they can go talk to the many many local groups that engage in productive activities.
Ah, so now it’s enough to acknowledge that public resources exist and people can find it if they want? Because seconds ago you were cheering for people to paint rocks in a public place to keep people from talking about anything else. Seems you’re not quite sure what you believe or how you think it should be accomplished. So what is it? Should it be shoved into people’s faces so they can’t ignore it? Or should they be left to find their own resources?
This thread is a prime example of people like you who could be allies here and engage people who aren’t yet convinced that we need to take action, that instead take up a lot of time and energy to argue about the kind of protest.
I am an ally. That’s what you don’t understand and refuse to entertain as a possibility. I’m an environmental advocate both personally and professionally, and I’ve been working on climate change and environmental issues for over a decade. And even I’m telling you that painting a rock is stupid and counterproductive. The only people who give a shit and empathize with it are people who were already on your team.
I didn’t say it wasn’t.
Removed by mod
Wanna bet?
This is for the deniers
“Climate change is a liberal hoax! They just want to tax us to death! Look at all the research they fabricated in Climategate!”
sees people spray orange paint on a rock
“Wait a second. I think I was looking at this all wrong!”
Amen. Plus some of us do prioritize it. We’ve minimized our carbon footprint, we’ve dedicated careers to environmental awareness and protection, and we spend countless hours in our own lives to communicate the reality of the situation to others, but we resent the fact that these protestors push people away from the rest of our messaging by making us look like a group of unhinged, attention-seeking morons.
You and me are arguing a non-provable hypothetical. Yes time they spend in jail is time they aren’t doing anything productive. That doesn’t mean they don’t do anything productive in their time they do not spend in jail. Also: The repressions they face as a consequence of their activism is part of the activism in my book.
Yes. We’re arguing in circles because the protestors are the story, climate change isn’t.
I’ll argue that without that stunt we’d be talking about something different entirely likely unrelated to the climate crisis. Which would be even less helpful.
I’d argue that we’re still not arguing about the climate crisis. Not a single person in this thread has said a single word about climate change or how to solve it. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.
As I have explained already: it’s about communicating to the public. Doing things under a certain name helps the public associate the current actions with past actions under the same name. If you do two vastly different things it helps to separate those by name too, otherwise it can get confusing for people that are not interacting with your group often enough.
Why do you not want these actions associated with the other group?
Furthermore, you don’t think painting a fucking rock is confusing to the people who want to discuss climate change, but having one interest group perform varying kinds of direct activism and grassroots organizing is confusing to the people who want to discuss climate change?
That’s quite the strawman you’ve put up here.
It’s a hypothetical, not a strawman, which should have been obvious when the sentence began with “if”.
I’m not advocating for bothering random people at their home and that’s not what JSO is doing. As far as I can tell they are targeting people of public interest, big events, and popular public places. Which is the “right” people because the climate crisis is about all of us. We all are contributing to it be it daily choices or our choices while casting our democratic votes.
You’re advocating for bothering random people at a tourist attraction, and you’re doing it in a way that a) distracts from talking about actual climate change, b) leaves them virtually NO information about how to address climate change, and c) is potentially affecting people who already do what they can to address climate change. See how this entire thread has been about painting rocks, instead of daily choices we make that contribute to or affect climate change???
No one is saying they did or acting like they did. What we’re actually saying is that the methods were fucking ridiculous and counterproductive.
Gods I hope so. The amount of damage he did convincing people that vaccines cause autism is incalculable. Especially to people on the spectrum.
Oh absolutely, and that AI part is already happening with local news outlets and some national sports outlets.