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Trick question, washing machines come in many different genders:
Only the first two are genders. The others are psychological illnesses
Edit: /s
I thought pans came in many different genders
Bi only in two.
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If you get the wrong one just accuse the examiner of being transphobic.
please no baiting trans folk
Die Waschmaschine die
Die Bart die
No one who speaks German could be an evil man.
Gut ausgedrückt.
Das ist die Kleidung der Waschmaschine
Ich stehe auf der Waschmaschine
German grammar cannot be trusted
Me in my mandarin class not having to conjugate, add pronouns, use words like the and to, and not having words more than 4 syllables. But having to learn 10,000 + characters
Have you tried asking the washing machine for its preferred pronouns?
mate, can you please not bait trans folk? thanks
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In Spanish it even depends on which dialect you’re speaking.
In some places it’s “la lavadora” (she/her), and in other places it’s “el lavarropas” (he/him).
It’s like butter in German, which in some regions is female.
Dude, you have it the wrong way around.
Like another comment said, in this particular case it even depends which word you use for the machine (une machine a laver, un lave-linge).
More in general, there’s a similar thing between France French and Quebec french where they also invert a bunch of them (un job/une job).
This one is funny actually! You can say une machine à laver, or un lave linge. :D
Never in my life did I hear the term lave linge
Really? I’ve seen it at least twice in the last minute.
Me too, but I never heard it.
hang on I’m going to shout it pretty loud
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End-syllables help a long way:
For example the often cited neutral: girl/Mädchen is a diminutive. So everything with -chen or -lein becomes neutral and therefore: das.
(Brötchen, Männlein, Häuschen, Fräulein)
https://mein-deutschbuch.de/genusbestimmung.html#nachsilben
As a bonus: in plural everything is “die” so just formulate everything in plural and you are always right.
The problem though is when you get into figuring out if it is in the nominative, accusative, dative, or genitive case.
Der Hund can easily be turned into den Hund, dem Hund, or des Hundes if you aren’t careful.
And for the love of God, don’t ask me anything about subjunctive case 😮💨
Easy. Since it’s the womans’ job to do laundry, the washing machine is also female /s
Let my wife know
So you mean la bite is …
Un pénis, oui.
But what if you’re single?
It’s probably makes sense once explained properly but as an outsider to gendered languages in general it feels like the stupidest archaic idea ever lol.
Grammatical gender has nothing to do with sexual gender. It is simply the expression on how words are declined in different cases.
As an insider to gendered language it feels like the stupidest idea ever to make non-gendered language gendered and call it inclusion or whatever they call it.
I don’t know what we’re talking about anymore
You clearly use one gendered language, at least. Yes - English is a gendered language, you’ll be surprised to learn. It just so happens that your language is such a clusterfuck it couldn’t reconcile traditional Latin/German gendered structure, and abandoned most of it.
reject natural language, return to toki pona
As a speaker of a couple of gendered languages, it absolutely is.
Female in Russian, because the word machine/машина ends with A, and so any machine, from tattoo gun to steam engine is female gendered. I always thought French and German worked in somewhat similar manner?
It works like that in French until you use a different word for the machine.
“Mon ordinateur est une bonne machine”. In a single sentence my computer was described with words both male and female.
It’s just vocabulary and grammar, not the deep essence or identity of things or people.
i don’t recall there being any rhyme or reason to gender in german, but it’s been many years since i studied. i do remember that the gender of any word like ____-machine would be whatever the gender is for machine.
Spanish, Italian and Portuguese do, i believe… French has some rather… Unusual conventions i think, not matching the rest
In French “machine” is feminine like in the other languages.
it is in German too.
It is die Waschmaschine. and a Steam Engine ist die Dampfmaschine. And it is a very straight foreard naming convention. Just add what kind of machine it is to the front of the noun.
I didn’t learn of any rhyme or reason to it in German when I took classes on it. In fact, in a few cases, the gender changes the meaning of the word. Der See und die See, for example. One means lake and the other means sea/ocean.
That’s a rather rare occurence. Most often, only the grammar will be incorrect if you use the wrong article.
There’s more shenanigans with “umfahren” and “umfahren”, where Intonation matters. One means “drive around”, the other “run over”.
Also one is a strong and one is a weak verb, meaning that in certain cases, one will be split apart:
Ich umfahre jemanden: I drive around someone.
Ich fahre jemanden um: I run someone over.
OMG, I’ve been doing my Duolingo lessons and never realised that they had different meanings, I just thought Germans used one word for all bodies of water 😭
“Die See” denotes an ocean, “der See” denotes a lake. You will more often hear “das Meer” instead of “die See” tho.
The general rule of thumb in French is the word is feminine if it ends with “-le” like “la table”, the table is feminine with it the article “la” to denote feminine. But this is not always the case. For example, house in French is “la maison” which doesn’t end in “-le”.
How aggregious is misgendering items in other languages? I assume it’s no big deal and may not even be worth correcting most of the time?
In German, they sometimes add the gender into the word. Like if you hire a few “Stripper” in German, they will be all male, while “Stripperinnen” would be all female and there is no generally accepted way if you want a mix or non-binaries, you’d have to describe it. This can lead to quite a lot of confusion, especially with words derived from English like this.
So what I’m saying is, if you use the English word and misgender, it can be a big deal. Like 7 or 8 inches big, on some occasions.
The example you used involved humans. They were asking about items.
It’s the same. Misgendering any object leads to confusion at best and makes you sound like an utter moron at worst.
Any chance you can help me understand why?
I took German in high school (which was a long time ago) - and yes, I can understand the moron part because if you speak poorly in any language that can happen.
But if I say die bleistift instead of der bleistift, how is that going to confuse someone? Bleistift is still the German word for pencil either way, right? The gendering of inanimate objects always felt very arbitrary to me.
I can explain: it’s not, it’s a lie. Using the wrong gender feels wrong but that’s about it. It’s a common second language learner mistake and it doesn’t make you sound like a moron. With a little luck, you took a gender that’s accepted in other regions of Germany (like die Email is standard while das Email is southern east I think). It’s a mess.
Technically, there are ambiguities but not really like der Leiter the leader die Leiter the ladder and of cause you could find an example where this is really confusing, unless you are a bit patient and have some empathy.
In any case, I have deep respect for everyone who learns the mess that’s my native language and nobody should feel bad for making minor mistakes.
Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.
In any case, I have deep respect for everyone who learns the mess that’s my native language and nobody should feel bad for making minor mistakes.
As you are no doubt aware, English is renowned for rules that are rules until they aren’t, and quite a lot of other ambiguities for non-native speakers, so I can appreciate this.
When I talk to someone who is clearly not a native English speaker, and they apologize for their English I usually point out that their English is way better than my (whatever their language is) since without fail it’s not a language I can speak at all. Seems to put people at ease.
To stay with people as an example: die Tänzer would mean plural right? But as an answer to a question, it might be confusing. Let’s assume you’re asked: „Wer war gestern Abend auf der Bühne?“. Assuming both participants know it’s an establishment with either several dancers or one female act, misgendering the female dancer trough omission of the correct ending would lead to confusion, since the false answer would be the same answer as the one being given by someone overwhelmed with gendering: „Die Tänzer“.
That is by definition confusing. Just because you can accommodate for it, doesn’t mean it isn’t initially.
About the moron part: that does really depend as well. I happen to work with a few people who are not German native speakers and tend to be very articulate in English. The way they often misgender common words in German really takes away from their credibility, since it happens so often. Doing it once or twice can be excused, but doing it often does not help you seem intelligent.
And there you are in one of the culture wars discussions we currently have in Germany. While progressives are using gendered nouns specificing which genders you are referring too (for example: Tänzerinnen and Tänzer – often abbreviated Tänzer*innen – if you had female and male dancers, Tänzerinnen if only female and Tänzer if only male), conservatives want to keep the old tradition of making a group of people male once a single male is included.
This has real world implications, though. There are jobs which are often gendered female – typically lower paid jobs like kindergarden teacher or nurse – and others are typically gendered male, like engineer or politican. There have been a couple studies with children where children were asked if their could think of taking a specified job. And if the job gender matched their gender, they were more likely to see themselves suitable for that job. And if you now remember that engineers are typically referred to as male and nurses are typically referred as female, this is one expiation on why Germany has one of the largest uncorrected gender pay gaps in Europe.
In your example, you wouldn’t use the definite article anyway. “Eine Tänzer” could be wrong indefinite article or wrong noun, but unless you aren’t hyper obsessed with gender (of people), it doesn’t matter. “Die Tänzer” would only be used when they were introduced before. That’s how define articles work. Sure, a foreigner could get that wrong, too, but then there are already 2 mistakes and of course, more mistakes make it worse. Also: if it’s established that it’s a dancing establishment, why not ask about “how many dancers” instead? As I said, you can construct cases, but it’s not easy and yours isn’t very good I’m afraid.
About your work environment: I get that it can come across as unprofessional, especially in writing. But in writing you have grammar checks, if you’re lucky (I just checked and libreoffice sadly doesn’t, but maybe with addons and I think MS office (which I’m forced to use at work) has it by default). And if they are viewed as morons in spoken form, I’m sorry to inform you that you work in a toxic environment. My non native colleges never had that problem as far as I know.
Grammatical gender is an indicator on how the words are declined in different cases.
der Bleistift der Berg die Waschmaschine die Blume das Schachbrett das Wasser Nominativ der Bleistift der Berg die Waschmachine die Blume das Schachbrett das Wasser Genitiv des Bleistifts des Bergs der Waschmaschine der Blume des Schachbretts des Wassers Dativ dem Bleistift dem Berg der Waschmaschine der Blume dem Schachbrett dem Wasser Akkusativ den Bleistift den Berg die Waschmaschine die Blume das Schachbrett das Wasser Thus, in the case of compound nouns, the noun at the end is what determines the gender: das Blei + der Stift -> der Bleistift.
Also, tables look fucking horrible on mobile. Or is it only me (using Liftoff).
The trick is to say the article very fast or very ambiguously, so that all anyone knows is that you didn’t say das.
As mentioned in another comment: it shouldn’t be. Youth culture has embraced this in part. However it lacks a certain finesse and makes it difficult for some people to differentiate on whether you wanted to use plural or singular for some people, especially in dialects which tend to omit the ending which would otherwise clarify the gender or singular/plural.
Edit:
Example: „Gibsch ma mal da Bleistift!“ (Singular) „Gibsch ma mal d‘Bleistift!“ (Plural)
Ein Schwabe.
Yeah, German has that as does English. Host vs Hostess, Actor vs Actress, etc. There is a push to only use the male word (I’ve never seen it go the other way). What a lot of people don’t know is that surnames also preserve things like this. Brewer was a male brewer but Brewster was a female one.
Wouldn’t it just be Stripper/Stripperen and Stripperin/Stripperinnen?
The plural of Stripper is Stripper.
But what would a group of male and females be referred to as I don’t think you can switch to the neutral version of Das Stripper. So maybe the answer is that a mixed group is Stripperen since that would be closest to neutral? Duolingo hasn’t covered mixed gender stripper scenarios.
Plural of Stripper is Stripper. You can say Stripper to any group of them, but in the case of having exclusively female strippers, you can also specify that by using Stripperinnen. It’s an option, not a must.
My guess is the default would be the masculine Stripperen for a mixed group
It sounds very weird and you know immediately it’s a foreigner speaking. When you are fluent the genders just come naturally, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a native making a mistake like that, maybe children.
I wouldn’t correct anyone unless they want to learn though, the noun itself is more important and it carries the meaning across.
This is for Brazilian Portuguese at least.
I can vouch it’s the same for Mexican Spanish.
In spoken language? As other said, you notice and ypu know you don’t talk to native speaker. You might correct them just ao they can learn and carry on.
On exam, which is the contextnof the meme? Pretty aggregious.
Informally, no native will ever correct you for misgendering a word - it sounds weird and stunted, but changes little in communicating the sorts of simple ideas I’d imagine a low-proficiency speaker would need to get through.
In a more formal setting, 10/10 times someone will correct you.Every once in a while there are two words that are written the same but have different gender, if you use the wrong article it’ll get confusing for a second and you’ll have to figure out from context what was actually meant.
French is just kind of compact (they even have the ‘de’ to un-ambigous things I figure) so sometimes the phrase rolls on but means something completely different, it might work out or not but can be confusing.
My master mistake, at dinner with my SOs family;
Tout le monde veut rentrer dans le moule.
This is the correct version.
Edit: BTW Swedish is the other way around and it’s quite easy to understand even if you missgender.
That must’ve generated some thunderous laughter :D
How do gendered languages handle neologisms?
(this is a very difficult question to search btw)
At least for romance languages, there is a rhyme and reason for the gender each noun gets, so neologisms and borrowed words tend to follow the same logic.
For word morphology, as an example, in Portuguese nouns ending in a are almost always female, so new words that end with a are very likely to be female.
There are semantic rules too, for example brands and companies are typically (I want to say always but there’s probably edge cases) female, so even though Netflix and Amazon didn’t exist before they’re still female.
there is a rhyme and reason for the gender each noun gets
There is? I only took high school level French, so I’m very ignorant on the topic and happy to admit so, but any time I asked that about that very idea all I ever got in response was “that’s just how it is!”, so I would love to learn if you’re willing to elaborate.
And I don’t think “it ends in A” is solid enough foundation to call it “rhyme and reason”
I speak French and it probably doesn’t help but it just sounds wrong when misgendered except for words that begin with a vowel syllable for some reason. Even we, struggle with those. E.g. avion, hélicoptère, école. We also use the l’ for those words instead of le/la but it becomes harder when we’re have to choose un/une. Maybe that’s a hint to what’s happening. Any language expert can chime in?
Yes, there is a rhyme and reason, but because that requires actually delving into linguistics studying (plus etymology for all those edge cases that got carried over from Latin and other languages), most people don’t get too deep into it apart from shallow rules (eg: if word starts/ends in X then it’s male/female).
Not even natives of gendered languages usually bother learning the nitty gritty rules, they just pick it up as they go, that’s how all of us learn our languages.
On a practical level, it’s also much easier to teach a 6 year old in elementary that something is male/female just because, and to remember that, than to go into each and every individual case (morphology, syntax, semantics, etc.), which themselves typically have edge cases due to history and whatnot. Especially because that child will naturally pick it up as they absorb the language around them so it really doesn’t matter much.
And then there’s just those cases where we actually don’t know because the etymology got lost. Yeah, that’s fun.
In school I was never taught why something is male/female yet I can always distinguish them naturally in my. day to day because that’s how I’ve always lived. That’s just one of the amazing things of human language.
If you ask a native of a gendered language why they think X word should be male instead of female they’ll probably just tell you it sounds wrong otherwise, and that’s literally the end of it for most of us. We don’t think about it, we just intuitively know it sounds right or wrong. I’m sure that’s frustrating to hear for a foreigner trying to learn, but you can’t teach what you don’t know. In the end, other than very broad rules, the best way typically is to just start memorizing it one by one.
Also, “ends in A” is definitely rhyme or reason in Portuguese, that’s actually a rule. Although to be more specific it’s a tonic A, but even that has an exception if it’s a nasal Ã, but I didn’t want to get into phonology too, I just wanted to give a simple example.
That’s… Curious. In Spanish both Netflix and Amazon are male.
Sometimes it changes. For example, Covid in French, everyone was using “le covid” (i guess cos it’s a virus, and virus is a masculin word), but then I believe the French academy weighed in that it should be “la covid” because it’s not the virus but the disease (la maladie) we’re talking about. Anyway. Yeah other than the official sources, many of us peasants all still say Le covid because by the time they weighed in we were all saying Le and so now saying La sounds weird.
Native German speaker here but I also speak Spanish, Portuguese, French and Swedish. Each of these languages handles them differently so I am thinking there’s not a general answer here.
It also can depend within each language on some context. For example in German many neologisms are automatically neuter (das) unless they happen to resemble some common pattern. For example a lot of German words that end with an -e are feminine and sometimes that is applied to neologisms too.
In slav languages, you just go with how the neologism sounds. “Computer” ends in hard r, so it’s masculine, for example.
Every once in a while there’s going to be shit like with “coffee” though. It sounds neutral-gendered and is officially neutral-gendered, but there’s been a big period when people believed it should be masculine because of the source language or some shit. Still a lot of people arguing about it.
It’s even worse if your native language has genders for things, but the one you’re learning has different genders for the same things.
Une machine, putain !
Noticed that space after putain ? When the sign has two things, like an exclamation mark or a colon, you put the space in between. Otherwise not !
Sorry for the the frenchification by using the “espace insécable” in the English text.
Does ‘÷’ require 3 spaces?
Except for ; because it’s no fun if there’s not at least one exception.
Semicolon is excepted because it’s effectively a comma, I’d assume.
