I am a Linux user for over a decade but I have no idea what this discussion is about. Can someone give me a tldr? I install some software using apt and some using the store and never have any issues.
Snaps are ways to ship software where everything is bundled together and the developer doesn’t need to sort out dependencies on the distribution. This often makes the package bloated. It has no direct benefits for users, but it makes life easier for developers. Thus, indirectly, users might get access to some software they would otherwise need to compile if no one’s got it readily available for the user’s distribution. Ubuntu appears mostly to be using it because they don’t want to bother sorting out dependcies. On Ubuntu, and only on Ubuntu as fast as I know, some packages in apt will install the snap version silently, which, I think rightfully, annoys a lot of users.
There are similar alternatives, like flatpak, which also bundle dependencies. Some aspects of snap are proprietary to Canonical, the makers of Ubuntu, so you’ll find people who are ok with the somewhat bloated software if it makes software more widely available, but aren’t happy with a proprietary format in what is largely an open community.
Also sometimes run into weird permission problems with snaps, like with keypassxc browser integration.
If you install an app with apt and it has a snap it automatically installs the snap
I believe snaps are only installed by default on Ubuntu at this point. Debian has apt and I don’t think it installs a snap version unless you asked for that.
I don’t think debian even has support for snaps built in, unless I’m mistaken? Most ubuntu derivatives also rip them out lol
I get all the reasons why people hate snaps, and I think they’re all valid. And I appreciate people looking out for others and warning them about problematic software.
But man am I lazy, and I was really happy I didn’t need to set up Docker just to run Sonarr on Bazzite. I’m pretty new to Linux, and that looked like a whole intimidating process.
I can’t even use my smart card because Ubuntu keeps trying to install the snap version of Firefox which can’t access the hardware. Why does it keep swapping out every time I update releases? Why won’t it let me be happy?! /cry
OK I am more of a baby Penguin here, why do people hate Snap and Flatpack?
Flatpak is fine. Snap is Canonical’s proprietary version, which ties you specifically to their app store. It’s not designed to be an open standard but Canonical has made it compulsory in one of the largest distros (Ubuntu) and its derivatives. There are also problems with its sandboxing mechanism competing with AppArmor.
AppArmor and SELinux sandboxing stuff pushed me to only install services with Docker on my headless machines 😣 found out most services can’t write to their own homefolder
This hate comes mostly from Linux communities like here and on Reddit. When you see actual numbers, both are widely used for production use. They have lots of active users as reported in their respective blogs and websites.
That said, it is aware that both had problems. Most hate towards Flatpaks that I can see is from purists that prefer their distro shipping their packages with dynamic dependencies and uprated by their package manager. Also there is complains with outdated runtimes and stuff like how sandboxing works.
Snaps has all problems than before with some extras. When they were released, because of compression, they were painfully slowly to open and they affected boot time. Nowadays this is mostly gone, but they still keep a proprietary store, inability to have multiple repositories (stores) and they don’t respect your home directory structure by placing a “snap” folder in your home.
Personally I use both and I’m happy with them. The proprietary store stuff does not bother me because I’m already trusting canonical binaries by using Ubuntu and they are easy to use and be productive with them.
You could be a vet
People shouldn’t hate either
laughs in AUR
btw
At least we have Mint and Kubuntu
Pop!_OS is based on Ubuntu and also strips Snaps for Flatpaks AFAIK
Yeah, it does, but if you try to install packages from apt, it still uses some Ubuntu repos and will try to sneak snaps and snapd in on you.
All Canonical had to do was NOT push snaps through
aptand I’d probably be fine with them.and also strips Snaps for Flatpaks AFAIK
Neither of these are a feature.
Don’t buy a Steam Deck then.
Fuuuuuuuuck kubuntu
What’s wrong with kubuntu?
do you mean Kde neon? pretty sure kubuntu has snaps
damn, I thought kubuntu got rid of that
Kubuntu removed Flatpaks in favour of Snaps
Mint for the win! I really hope they make LMDE the main branch in the longer term.
df -h hates this one simple trick
I want to be high and mighty and dislike Snaps for all the technical reasons but the single most irritating thing is definitely all the loopback devices.
Followed closely by
~/snapWHY NOT .SNAP?? IT’S ONE FCKING DOT
I haven’t had any issues with the few snaps I use so far
The issues are more being worse than flatpak in most ways: Proprietary, bigger, slower, no support for external repos
You had me at proprietary. But seriously, I use FOSS. I’ll tolerate proprietary software if I have absolutely no other choice. There’s absolutely no reason for me to put up with this bullshit. While it’s a long way from the kind of shitfuckery Microsoft is so fond of, it’s still completely unnecessary.
Proprietary doesn’t bother me at least not how snap is currently implemented
I don’t recall noticing a size difference between snaps and flatpaks
I’ve found snaps as fast as flatpaks, but I know snaps has issues before I started using them
I haven’t had any issues with the few snaps I use so far
My grandpa used to say something like the idea that he never had problems with the ‘few’ times he drove home drunk so far. Then he ran someone over.
It’s better to understand something is an avoidable risk BEFORE you’re shown graphically.
Comparing Snaps to manslaughter is a new one to me, but why couldn’t you have gone for the Godwin and compared it to Hitler?
Yes, snaps are just like manslaughter
Me reacting to analogies with “Did you know these two things are not completely identical?”, completely unburdened by the knowledge that I’m supposed to explain how the differences invalidate the comparison.
Driving drunk is factually stupid
Snaps are not
It’s a bad analogyI’d argue it’s pretty stupid to use FOSS but then depend on a proprietary server that only one for-profit company is allowed to run to deliver all that software, trusting them to just never do wrong or leave you high and dry. I’d also argue it fits the analogy perfectly, because the analogy was about saying “I haven’t had a problem yet” in response to being shown the potential problems of the action.
But the problem with snaps is an opinion. If Canonical goes bonkers I’ll just go use something else. Until then I don’t have any issues with them using proprietary software within their own ecosystem.
It’s not an opinion that proprietary for-profit software will betray you, it is an inevitability. It has happened every single time. If it was FOSS, we could salvage it. It’s proprietary, so we can’t. When it fails it must simply be abandoned. I just hope you learn the right lesson when this happens.
Flatpak ftw!
I like snaps.
GET THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!!
I like this comment.
very brave of you to say that here
why? Do you mean “like” as in you’d rather have them than not, or that you think they’re a good way to package apps?
I think they’re a good way to package apps. Superior to Flatpak for sure. I like Flatpak too and if Canonical abandoned Snap tomorrow, I’d switch my snap-packaged apps to Flatpak. The only non-bullshit downside of Snap is the proprietary server-side and the lack of multi-repo support. I don’t care much about either because I know implementing either is fairly uncomplicated and it will happen should the reason arise. If Debian wanted to start using Snap, it’d take them a month to get the basics working with their own server side. If the client side was proprietary too, I’d have had a completely opposite opinion on Snap. Finally Canonical supplies all the software on my OS. I use third party repos only when absolutely necessary. If Canonical ran a proprietary apt server side, I wouldn’t even know, apt doesn’t care. Some of the myriad HTTP mirrors could easily be running on IIS, or S3, or Nexus. The trust equation for snap is equivalent.
Has the meaning of this template changed? Like isn’t the pink guy supposed to be a thing supporting the white dude so they can accomplish a goal they couldn’t have done alone?
For example, the pink guy could be “Debian”, the white person “Ubuntu”, and the yellow goal “Being an awesome distribution”.
It’s always been a thing holding white guy from getting to yellow goal, in the memes I’ve seen.
