- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
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Orrrr… don’t use Google Chrome.
Agreed. I never understood why anyone goes out of their way to install Chrome.
Rant:
Why not use Edge, which comes with the OS? I’m not promoting Edge, but it’s already there. If you’re going to install another browser, why not use Firefox instead? Every time I ask someone why they’ve installed Chrome, they either don’t have an answer or say something like “it looks nice”.
That said, Firefox’ handling of tabs is still horrible. “Go Vivaldi” on this count. Sadly it’s a Chromium browser.
How does Firefox fail you at tabs? I’ve always been happy with it, I sandbox my FB and Google social stuff, Save groups for opening at once, share tabs across devices, I don’t want for anything.
The tab categories and paging are excellent. I don’t understand what else you need. There are even 3rd party tools that improve this functionality.
I wrote my answer up here.
Linking it so I don’t post it twice.
Chrome and Edge have native vertical tabs. I was an Edge user before the Manifest V3 fiasco, and it’s the one feature I dearly miss. There are extensions to add this functionality to FF, but they require extensive setup, and every new FF update breaks them. Edge also had shortcuts to open a link in new tab and switch to it or stay on the current tab. It’s the little things that you don’t really notice until they’re gone.
I’ve been using a vertical tabs extension in FF for a couple years now and it has never once broken during update. I don’t recall setup being complicated either. Which one are you using?
I’m not on desktop atm but when I get home I’ll check which one I have. It’s not as good as Arc’s implementation but it’s serviceable.
Don’t forget grouping tabs! I used that a lot to group all my youtube tabs, and reddit tabs. It makes it easy to minimize them all in one go, which leads to a neater browser experience without having to close all the tabs…
I recently switched back to Firefox after using Chrome for like a decade, and one of the first extensions I installed was a tab grouper that allows me to group tabs into my own custom gcontainers while still only using one window. As a tab hoarder, it’s been a life saver.
What’s the name of it?? I thought I looked everywhere when I made the swap early summer…
It’s called Simple Tab Groups, and it’s actually a Firefox recommended extension:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/
Idk what people have about chromium tabs. Firefox does tabs just fine.
Also, edge does not come with most os, just w*ndows
Vivaldi does this out of the box: Tab grouping, tab stacking, tab stack renaming, vertical tabs, periodic tab reloading, etc.
Firefox has some catching up to do in this regard. I need extensions to do some of this. Tab stacking, for example, simply does not exist on Firefox, which means that my tab bar eventually makes me scroll horizontally.
Not badmouthing Firefox. Just saying that it isn’t the greatest in this area. Am still using it daily. I just don’t use it for tasks that require having many tabs at my disposal.
Edit: I didn’t say that Edge comes with most OSs. But Windows is the most widespread Desktop OS, so most people will have access to Edge “out of the box”.
Love Vivaldi, but when I hit a site that has excess crap on it, I’ll switch to FF and tap the reader mode for a cruft-free experience.
Vivaldi also has a reader mode 🤔
Why not use Edge, which comes with the OS?
lol
Not with any of my OSes.
Fair enough. 🙂
Am sure all know what I’m talking about.
Using edge is probably a bigger offense than using chrome.
I don’t know they’re likely getting most of the information from the OS anyway.
Installing chrome is like doubling it.
Inertia. For years: IE sucked and Mozilla was painfully slow and missing features. I know it’s been quite a few years since that was a thing, but people don’t like to change, so I really think it’s still leftover behavior.
Or at least it is for me, but I’m mostly in the Apple ecosystem now, so it’s not as relevant
My computer doesn’t come with edge
Chrome was pretty good and somewhat faster than FF for a while in the oughts. At least it felt that way, and Google didn’t seem so evil at the time. My guess is people go with chrome out of inertia
I go out of my way to purge Edge from Windows every time it works it’s way back in no matter what registry edits I have to make, what Windows “features” it breaks or whatever script I have to write.
Edge is like having a roommate constantly hitting on you and occasionally withholding things from you when you reject them and you’re basically over here going “They’re already living with you, why not go with them instead of hooking up with someone from outside”
Chrome is ethically questionable admittedly at best, but Edge is straight up cancer.
Yes unfortunately I’ve found chromium is just much better than Firefox when it comes to tabs. It’s at least a step removed from Chrome.
I started using Chrome instead of IE11, which was crap for standards, and before Edge was a thing. When Edge came along, I got really ticked off by the constant nagging to use it, which made me hate it without even trying it. I will probably carry on with Chrome for now, whist I can still turn off all the ad tracking stuff.
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Amen. Only using Edge when there’s no other choice.
Usually there is, though.
Chrome, on the other hand, is never needed or required. At least I have never encountered such a scenario. Conceivably, a company admin could force it on employees, but in my experience, admins usually just stick with Edge if they run Windows and want to lock down company PCs from being tampered with.
Sadly it’s a Chromium browser.
Chromium is the open source project, it doesn’t contain any of the Google Chrome specific changes.
Google’s changes for Chrome are a problem. That’s the main topic of this discussion.
To take it further, Chromium being mainly developed and maintained by Google and a ton of browsers basing themselves on that is another problem: Chromium monoculture and why it is a concern.
Chomium isn’t Chrome, but Chrome is Chromium. Just like Vivaldi or Edge aren’t Chrome, they’re Chromium (based). Unless you can show that these tracking features are going into the Open Source Chromium Project, we’re pretty safe. Google has stripped the “good stuff” (account syncing/backup and maybe a few other things I’m unaware of) from Chromium in order to force people to Chrome, at least on Linux.
Sure. I am with you. That’s not what my previous message was about, though.
I agree with you 100% on what you just said.
Unfortunately, on Android, Chromium based browsers are SIGNIFICANTLY more secure than any other browser framework. I recommend Mulch and Cromite.
Again, this is ANDROID specific. Everywhere else, I use FF based browsers.
You can’t just say that FF on Android is less secure and not give any sources for that claim.
I mean, you can, but that makes your claim not have any value.
I wasn’t trying to argue about, or even educate people, on the specifics. I was just making an objective statement of fact. Anyone is free to do their own research to validate my assertion, disprove it, or just ignore it.
But, okay, I can provide a good entry point into the topic with a good write-up on Android browsers from the developer of a security focused ROM, DivestOS:
https://divestos.org/pages/browsers
*He’s also the developer of two good Android hardened browsers: Mulch (Chromium) and Mull (FF/Gecko).
Edit: I also recommend NOT using Google’s official Android Chrome browser, just forks that are based around Chromium e.g. Mulch and Cromite.
The grapheneOS team also discourages using FF android but I still use it (well, Fennec). Add-ons are a must have and would never use a chromium browser.
Mobile FF on Android is just fine.
Firefox is great and works well on Android yes! I recommend Mull.
However, technically speaking, resources don’t fully recommend it due to there being no per-site process isolation yet that works well.
If that doesn’t matter to people then sure it’s great and better than using Chromium based browsers. 🙂
It’s just good to give everyone the information and reasoning why then let them decide.
Divest OS resource: https://divestos.org/pages/browsers#processIsolation
PrivacyGuides resource: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/mobile-browsers/?h=site#android
Are there issues with FF on android?
I don’t know of them and I’ve used it for as long as it’s been available.
I’m having problems finding unpatched vulnerabilities on Android ff, could you expand on what makes it less secure?
Laughs in Firefox
After dragging my feet for years I finally moved back to Firefox a few weeks ago. Sure, there’s a few features I miss from Chrome/Edge (vertical tabs, PWA support, tab groups, etc.) but I was able to ‘fix’ many issues with extensions and a custom userchrome.css, and trust is ultimately more important to me.
I’m thankful there are still free, open, privacy respecting options out there.
There are Tab Groups add-ons for Firefox. I’m sure there might be vertical tab add-ons, too.
As someone who never went to Chrome, I’m just sitting here trying not to be all “I told you so!” from when Chrome started to really take off a decade ago.
You can also edit the userChrome.css file to get rid of the top tabs.
Step 1. Uninstall Chrome why are you still running it? Stop giving Google power over the internet. Just stop. Uninstall it. Use Firefox, Brave if you must. Just ditch Chrome.
Step 2. See above. Just flipping stop. No, don’t install another browser and keep chrome. Just DITCH CHROME. TOTALLY. If you need a backup use Edge or Brave or Firefox. STOP GIVING GOOGLE POWER OVER THE INTERNET.
Unfortunately, it’s not like it would realistically change the monopoly Google has over the internet. The greatest financial backer of Mozilla is Alphabet and if Firefox starts to gain too much traction, they will simply axe Mozilla and unless they manage to get another backer fast, Alphabet will have THE monopoly over the Internet.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m doing my part and using Firefox (when it doesn’t constantly crash), but Alphabet’s holding way too many strings currently for any change to happen.
My understanding is that Google pays Firefox to use Google as the default search engine, which they also pay Apple for the same, so it’s a win-win situation and unlikely Google would ever do such (especially since Chrome is already the dominant browser for user base)
We can dream for the day where Alphabet finally loses it’s monopoly. It will be a day to be remembered.
The FTC is actually suing them right now for that very practice. Google might be forced to stop doing that which would ironically hurt Mozilla/competition.
To stop supporting Firefox would be begging for antitrust investigation (if not in the US then in the EU). Plus Mozilla would probably find another sponsor so all they’d be doing is draw attention to themselves. If it were a large piece of the marketshare at stake I could see it but Firefox is currently at 3-5% (depending on who you ask) so it’s not even worth the aggravation.
That’s why I included the clause “if Firefox starts to gain too much traction”. I agree that currently Firefox is no threat to Google, but if it starts to become, they will strike hard against it.
And unfortunately, antitrust investigations do little against the Titans of Big Tech, just look at what it (didn’t) do to Microsoft.
On the contrary, if Firefox market share were to grow then Mozilla would only be in a better position to negotiate with Google. And the fact they support a rival with a larger share would only strengthen the argument that Google is not monopolistic.
Don’t lose sight of the fact that Google’s main concern is Search market share, not browser market share. As long as Mozilla agrees to keep Google Search as default Firefox could have 90% market share and Google would still be ok with it.
It’s true that browser market share also counts indirectly, because it allows them to influence the technology. If Google rolls out support for something, or withholds support for something, it affects everybody and can make or kill any particular piece of tech.
Browser engine dominance will come under scrutiny (and it will be a deep and fascinating rabbit hole), but later. Right now it’s about Search.
One can hope.
I wouldn’t use Edge, if you’re on Lemmy, use Firefox. Cmon, if you’re technically literate you can figure it out. Everybody else, use Brave. It’s the least worse normie browser.
Just install another more privacy friendly browser
Firefox is the only answer here
I personally use librewolf. Firefox is making it look like they are private, but you need to tweak a lot of settings to get there
Eh, depends on your threat model. When Telemetry is none of your concern, you’re good to go.
They forgot to add “Switch to Firefox” at the end of the title
I read this article from top to bottom and didn’t find a clear explanation of why you should disable this feature.
Because it doesn’t protect your privacy (Google still tracks everything), but it gives Google an even stronger monopoly to make taking other actions to protect your privacy less viable.
The end game is still their web DRM pretending to be “security” to make it impossible for you to choose how a page is displayed to you.
Google doesn’t track everything. The browser determines your interests locally; the only information shared with Google (and advertisers) is which broad topics you’ve recently shown an interest in.
It’s an underhanded way of implementing a browser supported foolproof adblock detector. Even its stated goal of “give advertisers a unified, browser backed, ‘private’ way of tracking you for advertising” isn’t especially appealing or useful when you get something better than that from adblock anyway. Turning it off will be reflected in telemetry sites gather about feature availability and hopefully low adoption numbers discourage them from taking advantage of this “feature”.
Hmm, not having read up on the tech, what’s stopping someone from making a Firefox plugin that just spoofs fake data back? It’s all done client side if I’m understanding, so everything necessary to do so must be available. Only wrinkle I could see is if they have signing and ship the cert with Chrome and regularly rotate it. It’s still not impossible in that case, just more annoying.
My understanding is vague but the sandbox environment is cryptographically integrity checked in some fashion that makes the spoofing you’re suggesting difficult or impossible.
Well, I did a little digging, and while parts of the stuff proposed by Google might be tricky, the actual topics portion of the API looks pretty easy to spoof. It seems like there’s really only two things that need to be done. The first is to spoof the feature detection logic to return true for calls to
document.featurePolicy.allowsFeature('browsing-topics'). The second would be to return randomly selected topics from all available topics from calls todocument.browsingTopics()(care might need to be taken to return a consistent set of random topics to a given page, otherwise clever sites might poll the API many times to detect randomness). That really seems to be all there is to the topics API part of this. As for spoofing the rest of the web DRM parts, that’s going to be a lot trickier, but with control of the browser I can’t see how it could be made insurmountable.
Because spying on you is bad. They mention the privacy implications in the article.
Gawd Google really is just a despicable company
Everyone here has probably seen Scott McCloud’s Contra Chrome web-comic. In the off chance you haven’t, it details exactly why you shouldn’t use Chrome.
I hadn’t seen it but am aware enough that it didn’t reach me a whole lot. But still.
Damn.
Never seen it before. I’ll give it a better read when I’m not so busy in a bit (taking a shit right now ;)
Instead, text the boss: this is gonna be a looong shit.
I haven’t seen it yet. Thanks for sharing.
Let me guess … every new update reverts Chrome back to default settings
Chrome feels like it’s updated every week
It’s a browser. They have been getting weekly updates for like a decade now.
Updates generally don’t require settings resets. It can happen if there’s major changes but that’s the exception, not the norm. If Chrome updates revert settings to default with any degree of regularity (I actually don’t know if they do, I haven’t really touched Chrome in ten? years) that’s either gross incompetence or sheer malice.
Fair enough. I stopped using it ages ago, and was abhorred to find out chrome logs you in on the browser when you log in to Google at any point. Any browser that silently insists on knowing your identity as you browse the Web deserves zero trust.
Thank firefox for containers.
Chrome updates itself about once every five - six days on my system
Firefox updates once about every two weeks and often just once a month.
Everytime I run a manual update, Chrome is always on the list.
Oh man! Time to give Google a damn good show of a
morbidly obese balding 40 something world of warcraft guy beating it heavily to lesbian futanari furry content staring into the camera as he gets busy!Google wanted this to happen, so why not give those suckers the VIP First Class treatment?
Anybody else think of things that’ll make those Google folk writhe in visual and audial agony and cut the privacy invasion act?
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