I think Steam might be the only private company in this.
Really says a lot.
don’t forget valve gets minors (and adults) into gambling.
steam is just so based.
I dont think a single more based company has ever existed. It rivals the greats like linux, with a touch of gambling.
Linux isn’t a company.
I dont think a single more based company has ever existed.
Hyperbole much? I like Steam as much as the next guy but lets not pretend the guy that owns 6 yachts is a good person just because he’s better than the next worst. Steam DRMs the shit out of games sold on their platform and if you’re an indie dev that wants to sell your game Steam is THE place to do it.
Steam made $10bn last year, they have about 100 employees (their parent company Valve has about 400). I used to be a bigger fan of GabeN but more recently really started considering him and looking into it and realized he’s just another unethical billionaire. This video by Coffeezilla is a good jumping off point. regarding the intentional targeting of youth with addictive gambling mechanics in loot crates and circumventing gambling laws. It’s all very purposeful and continues to this day.
Steam’s DRM is completely optional and is among the least intrusive DRMs available for developers to use. Many games are sold 100% DRM-free on Steam.
Yeh plus they let neonazi groups usw their forums for recruiting and hate speech, because they don’t want to pay any mods.
Paying someone to do that kind of work is the opposite of Valve’s ideal, if I understand them correctly.
They prefer systems working well enough with as little human assistance as possible—see: review system with reactions and surge detection; user-defined game tags; front page recommendations completely based on trends; the market; and so on.
That’s not to say these are bad, but they could often be improved, if only Valve was willing to pay the human cost. But part of the reason Valve remains small is they try to automate as much as they can (and if it can’t be automated, it might never get done, specially considering their corporate structure).
N.B. I still prefer them over majority of companies in this space, but let’s not ignore their issues, e.g. gambling. As an aside, I also appreciate GOG’s “no DRM” stance, but I use Linux and sadly native support isn’t there. Kudos also to Itch.io.
me: steam is terrible; it’s just drm with a nice bow on top
steam: steam visual novel fest starts now
me: i love steam stuffs more items on my wishlist
(for real tho itch.io and gog are much better use them - and download the actual offline installers from gog don’t use galaxy)
GOG Galaxy isn’t bad to use. It has cloud saves, and update checking - which is useful for some people. And games installed using the offline installers still show up in galaxy (and can be updated etc.) In fact, you can download the offline installers from the Galaxy app itself if you want to.
Heck, I just cut out the middleman and go straight to torrenting.
Wish I had thought to do this sooner. I would’ve saved a lot of money that really just ended up in the hands of landlords.
itch.io and gog
would switch tbh but it would need to have steam style proton integration first
heroic games launcher integrates a pretty solid proton base. Lutris also works but i find it a bit too fiddly for me.
HGL works great though, also provides native integration with EGL and GOG, which is nice.
@cupcakezealot wasn’t Itch also American?
yeah it wasn’t necessarily an alternative; i was just saying they’re better because they tend to support indie devs and/or are more drm free than steam. i didn’t know of a purely non american one that i use :(
@cupcakezealot I like that they support indie creators as well, but Valve also did wonders in regard to gaming on Linux in general. I personally support both, as long as they are not supportive in any way to the current Trump administration.
oh for sure it wasn’t a dismissal of steam (which I have a large library and a steam deck) and more of a use itch.io and gog first of possible
@cupcakezealot oh, I see
Apparently GOG is Polish. DRM free, too; the one time I used it it literally just gave me the raw game files, like back in the day.
i didn’t know they were polish but yup! for most games you can go into your account and download all the manuals and exes/pkgs for any game you own!
I love my Steam Deck and Proton, but it pisses me off how many Steam games are spyware / DRMware and won’t start without internet on this PORTABLE console, and especially that Valve allows this kind of toxic shit.
So, my Steam Deck stays blocked from the internet in my firewall and I either buy from GOG when available, or there’s this girl on the internet who shares a huge library of games that require no internet connection.
Also, Gabe can STFU about piracy being a service problem until Steam bans DRM and spyware.
You can just not buy the games that have stuff like Denuvo etc. If you keep buying them, of course they’ll keep including the DRM etc.
Steam is the storefront, and they have plenty of games you can buy without that crap.
And there’s always torrenting. Denuvo doesn’t actually stop games from being cracked.
Yup pretty much it.
Gaben is pretty chill, ngl
I’m literally installing windows right now. I feel disgust, but I need it for one application that I know will never have a Linux version. I got tired of the slow as shit virtual machine I used for it before. I can’t replace it with an alternative either, for business reasons.
I still don’t understand why the company is so highly regarded. They enable underage gambling. Life must be easy for a company. You just have to be a little bit better than the others and you are regarded as a hero.
i mean, out of all things a company can do that are bad, underage gambling is probably one of the better ones, and the argument in favor of it is that it’s on games like csgo and cs2, where the age range is obviously higher than an actual child.
Realistically, i think you have to be kind of stupid to get caught in gambling, but it is also definitely predatory, and there’s a reason it’s a heavily regulated industry. There’s definitely a better solution than we currently have, but it’s not as bad as it could be either.
“underage gambling is probably one of the better ones”, “you have to be kind of stupid to get caught in gambling” you seem like you do not know what you are talking about respectfully.
Have you watched cofeezilla? The industry already has armed mafia structures.
Accurate and warranted.
I never gamed, so…
- Fuck gambling
- Fuck walled gardens
- Fuck billionaires (nobody needs that much dough)
- Fuck Valve/Steam (it’s easy for me to say)
Steam isn’t perfect and I sure as shit won’t be the one defending a corporation, and this isn’t a good excuse at ALL, but if you’ve never gamed you wouldn’t believe how much worse it is on the other side (GOG being the only exception).
You are allowed to say Fuck on the Internet. Why are you following the self-censorship rules for Instagram and other social networks if you are making a joke about them?
You are even allowed to say fuck on the radio and TV in some countries (like The Netherlands)
I just reposted it from elsewhere, no need to read too much about it
[ removed from lemmy ]
Steam is still basically the only option AND they are actually helping Linux a lot with game compatibility. Altough, if I need games specifically on steam I’ll be buying the key from Greenmangaming (UK) or GamersGate (Sweden). If anybody has more alternatives feel free to let me know so I can add them to my list.
GOG sadly misses a majority of games atm so I just can’t replace steam with it yet.
The name GamersGate sounds like it didn’t any issues at all /s
Yeahhh I don’t know who thought that was a good name hahaha
Third party key market places are kinda iffy, and there have been numerous cases of the keys being offered on there having been bought with stolen credit cards, or otherwise generated in ways that aren’t quite above board.
I remember one interview with an indy dev in which they said they prefer people pirating, because chargebacks from stolen cards are actively costing them money.
For people who feel they need the entertainment games provide, but can’t afford current prices, I feel pirating games from conglomerates, and buying from smaller studios and indies is the most socially responsible way to do it, but I’m not your mum.
Edit: Huh, looks like greenmangaming gets their keys directly from the publishers. Didn’t know that was a thing. Guess I was a bit quick on the trigger there, should have checked first. Sorry about that.
G2A is probably the big example of Devs prefering you pirate instead of buying.
Only use G2A if you actively wish harm on the company making the game.
Don’t use G2A even if you wish harm on the company making the game, it’s still supporting scammers and thieves, just pirate the game.
See you already found the reason it is ok, but yeah what you are saying is completely right when talking about sites like G2A, Kinguin, etc where YOU can sell your keys as that opens the gates for illegal stuff
Hence I mentioned legit resellers (from the EU) that do support the publishers.
I’m quite fond of Fanatical. They are based in the UK and also sometimes sell DRM free books/audiobooks
Ohh I’ve actually been on their website sometime. Good to know they’re UK based thanks!
Update:
What’s that?
My purchase on fanatical
I don’t believe gog will ever have a full library. They require all their games to be DRM free. Until corporate gaming changes GOG won’t.
Not all their games are DRM free though, they ‘sold out’ a long time ago.
ive seen that gog is incredibly picky with what games are allowed on its platform too, which doesn’t help
iirc they refused Balatro, and initially even refused Undertale for being too low quality, before changing their minds when they saw the absolute phenomenon that game had become
(I got this from hearsay tho so don’t take it as a fact)
There ought to more indie outlets like itch.io, preferably non-American, and maybe if GOG had a similar site for just free or low cost indie games, that’d help bring upcoming indie artists in the door which eventually could make trustworthy titles worthy of their more premium store. Shame they have such odd vetting process, yet they don’t have a problem with over low quality stuff like the Postal series[1].
Thats a plus for me, and why when I buy its through gog. My steam library is large, but hasn’t grown in years.
You are still fucked then if Steam decides to take out a game you purchased. Again the whole “you’re not buying a product but a license for the product” debacle. Other than not giving Steam any money, this doesn’t change much? Could just pirate games instead.
I never said I cared about that in the first place. But even after games are removed from Steam they still allow you to download it whenever. Its only really an issue should Gabe choose a replacement for him that isn’t as pro gamers as he is.
This community is about buying european, not complaining about having DRM.
Huge plus that they aren’t publicly traded and forced to chase profits above all. Plus their employees are far and wide the best paid in the industry, and they never do mass lay offs.
This is a somewhat naive view when you consider Gabe’s multiple super-yachts.
The guy could be more charitable, but aside from that, what do you want him to do? If he lowers the cost of steams cut per purchase he’ll get in trouble for monopolizing the industry. Yeah, he’s too rich, but he got there without exploiting or hurting anyone. Even after he passes away, the company is already employee owned.
You’re missing the part where they make the vast majority of their money from the gambling, not from the cut they take from sales. They don’t have to run the gambling service. But they do because it’s a money faucet.
Two things: First, they very likely don’t make most of their money off of their loot box sales from the few games they own that have them. (CS, Dota 2, TF2).
Secondly, you’re just full of shit and making up that “fact”. As a private company, none of their stuff is completely public record, but using various trackers and estimates and sales numbers from game studios, Steam sells north of 700,000,000 games a year and makes a $billion or so from cs and tf2 stuff.
Since the average game sale amount is around $15; $15 X 700,000,000 = 10,500,000,000 ÷ valves cut of 30% = $3,150,000,000
Now not all studios pay that 30%. Some have lower deals based on volume and notoriety, but it’s still safe to assume that their game sales make over two billion a year. AKA well over their loot box money.
Wait what exactly is the purpose of buying a steam key from a third party? And how is that profitable and not tos breaking?
Good question! Real resellers (so NOT g2a, etc) get their keys from publishers directly (so they pay for them). The publishers get these keys from steam for free and by buying them from a reseller steam takes 0% of the money. So by using an EU reseller more money stays here.
Steam is still basically the only option
When cornered people finally admit that steam is a small monopoly
people finally admit that steam is a small monopoly
Yeah, no other company gives a fuck about linux gaming so… I guess.
You don’t really have to rely on any company to play your games
Steam isn’t a monopoly, there are other choices but they just suck. Epic games in terms of game availability already replaces a good 80% of my active library, itch, ubisoft, ea, etc also exist but are just so bad as well.
Steam is basically the only option… That cares about gamers and actually provides a good service.
Steam may be a very successful business, but they’re still the seed crystal for a whole ecosystem of gambling that preys on addicts and children with the whole CSGO loot box thing. Take a wild guess what forms of addiction have the highest suicide rates?
Fuck Valve. Fuck all Corps. No business has ever nor can ever, genuinely give a shit about anything other than increasing profit.
The crates where fine in TF2 …. Before CSGO got made, but due to CSGO and other games it’s an issue.
But while you consider it gambling, most laws don’t. It’s currently only banned in NL and BE to open lootboxes on Steam and in NL we have legal online gambling for 18+, but Valve won’t gives you access to the lootboxes.
The point is that one laws need to be more clear about what is gambling and what isn’t without ruining anything that uses randomizers and/or loot and there needs to be a better way to validate people’s age without hurting their privacy.
No business?
I work as a software developer for a small business and they do care about us and not just profits.
Recently we were all given a pay rise and a reduction in hours as they can afford to support that.
Correct, no business. That same business will lay you off in a heartbeat if they can. Businesses do not care about you.
What a myopic view of the world.
Anyone can start a business and treat their employees and customers fairly. It’s just that in our Stockholm Syndrome Society, the businesses who abuse us are the most successful.
No that’s what Angelosaxton (American) companies are about.
Most privately owned companies don’t care about making as much profit as possible. They want a healthy company that can pay them their salary and save up money for their pension.
Also, not true in my case.
They do care and have shown on numerous occasions my supporting me when I have needed it and instilling in us that we come first and the business is secondary.
Like the owners literally do the same work as us and are far more accommodating than they have to be for us.
How else would you get a pay rise and a reduction in hours, able to work from home when having car trouble, not having a good mental health day fine take it off, etc. We also don’t have any targets or KPIs and don’t actively seek new work as our clients are loyal.
I cede my point. I knew I was laid off for being a piece of shit, I just knew it.
Sorry, I’m not doing great these days.
I’m not saying you’re a piece of shit, just that there are a few good employers out there. I also realise I am lucky.
Nah you’re good sorry wasn’t implying that.
I’m gonna add that the ceo is a bilionare who owns an entire fleet of mega yacths
https://luxurylaunches.com/transport/gabe-newell-luxury-yachts.php
On the other hand, Valve wishing to seek an alternative to Microsoft’s poor decision[1] making has been a great boon to the Linux community. Valve was also there at the start of Vulkan[2]. But is “funny” that Gabe Newell started off as a Microsoft employee, in fact the one that led the team that ported Doom to Windows with Doom95 and in turn also helped launch Windows (95) as the gaming OS for decades to come.
As much as I distrust and hate corporations, Valve isn’t in it for the shareholders, you can’t buy Valve stocks and that means they at least have a bit more soul than a lot of other corporations - even though they are profit seeking.
What I don’t like about them is how they sell you a service, not an actual game. You technically buy a lifelong lease on each game, never ownership. Your shit can be gone in minutes with nothing to prove for it, except for bank statements saying Valve took your money.
Which is why I’ll always buy on GOG[3] if possible. DRM free and European.
Valve is a privately owned company.
Publicly owned companies want more prodit because well we want out interest and return on stocks and a stable pension etc as well right? That all pushes publicly owned companies to get more and more profit every year.
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Does everyone just keep glossing over the ‘they enable the abuse of addicts and children” part?
I’m not saying I disagree with your other points I’m just confused.
Because it’s a weak-ass point, quite simply. Capitalism itself does that shit, not gonna knock Valve for something every game company does, if we play that game with everyone it gets exhausting
“Wont SOMEBODY think of the children?” Is literally a Simpsons meme
Every game company does not operate a gambling system that is the center for a literal whole ecosystem of predatory shady businesses. But that was a halfway decent try at a whataboutism argument /s.
Yes that quote is at the heart of a Simpsons episode. And it’s about people using moral panic crusades as a means of enacting draconian measures of control based on a fear based in falsehood. Valve demonstrably engages in the practices I mentioned so I think your point kind of falls completely on its face. I am glad to see you recognize capitalism as inherently exploitative though.
Every game company does not operate a gambling system that is the center for a literal whole ecosystem of predatory shady businesses.
Making a more specific point after the fact doesn’t change the original point.
whataboutism
So busy trying to sound smart you proved you weren’t worth engaging with
This reads like you took in all the words I wrote and then responded to them without actually understanding or comprehending any of the content.
Sounds like a systemic issue…
*glances at capitalism" 👀
Also an entirely voluntary issue with viable quality alternatives that exists solely due to people not chosing FOSS video games to play.
Examples:
Platformer- Super Tux
FPS- Xotonix
Strategy- Beyond All Reason
Depends if the business it publicly owned.
I think valve are mostly fair to consumers. The money they make from gamers is doing some good in the linux sphere.
I thought it was pretty well known Valve is privately owned.
They make money selling off of gamers by selling games. They take advantage of and enable systemic abuse of, I’ll say it again, addicts and children. I’m not saying they aren’t also fair to their customers in most of their dealings and that they aren’t doing good things for the Linux ecosystem. But we’re also talking way more money than I bet you’re thinking. Gabe’s uber rich person kink is super-yachts. Multiple, super-yachts. You can appear and behave with decency and still contribute to the detriment of society at the same time.
Get lawmakers to make a law about it and properly work it out. Valve is banning loot boxes even for people who are legally allowed to gamble.
The issue is that it is hard to legally define whaf a lootbox is and stop it without stopping things like TCG drafts and RGB loot from bosses or enemies on games.
I’m just happy to see a meme template from Half Baked.
Chappelle’s old stuff is fire
