During negotiations with the DNC and the Harris campaign, we were repeatedly told by interlocutors that Harris couldn’t meet any of our basic requests (a policy shift from Biden, a Palestinian speaker at the DNC, a statement distinguishing herself from Trump on Israel, or even a meeting with Michigan families who lost loved ones to Israeli bombs) because of AIPAC-aligned politicians like Fetterman, who might take to TV, rile up suburban white and Jewish voters, and fracture the party’s coalition in a swing state.
That political calculus alienated a key voting bloc, although likely not large enough to have shifted the ultimate election outcomes, that should be part of a durable Democratic majority. But few will ever be held accountable for that choice.
A Fetterman staffer condemning Uncommitted for not advocating for Palestinians ‘the right way’ is like an arsonist scolding the fire department for using the wrong hose.
From a pure political science perspective, if the Democrats were a real party they would either purge themselves of Zionists or purge themselves of anti-Zionists. This coalition is objectively impossible to sustain and will make them lose any time Israel is bombing.
It is starting to come out that the Democrats blatantly censored voter concerns for the genocide during the campaign. And lied about them not existing.
A Harris organizer who worked on youth turnout said that senior campaign officials gave them an order: When they sent out mass volunteer or fundraising emails and people replied by asking about Gaza, they were told to mark it as “no response.” The result? They seldom ended up engaging with voters on that issue.
i wish this information did more good; since the democrats are doing their damnedest to ignore it while the media is pretending it never happened.
Ah yes, the DNC’s ”strategy”—alienate everybody who isn’t a suburban wine mom or AIPAC donor. Brilliant. Why bother with Michigan families mourning Israeli airstrikes when you can pander to Fetterman’s Fox News cosplay?
Harris couldn’t even fake it. No Palestinian speaker, no policy shift, no spine. Just the same ”don’t rock the boat” calculus that’s sinking their coalition faster than a lead balloon in Lake Michigan.
Here’s the kicker: they’ll blame voters for staying home instead of owning their cowardice. Meanwhile, Uncommitted gets torched for not advocating ”the right way”—as if there’s a polite way to demand basic humanity. Spoiler: there isn’t.
Democrats didn’t just lose—they fumbled their soul.
Harris campaign: why aren’t you embracing our flavor of fascism, the flavor of warhawks like Cheney and genocide?
Imagine supporting genocide in order to win, but then losing anyway.
DNC successfully elected the best guy for genocide. They still collected a fair bit of money. Is that a loss?
honestly disgusted by how meager and purely symbolic the demands made by the uncommitted movement were
as if getting every single thing on that list would have spared a single life
All they demanded was basically a lip service and they didn’t get even that
They had a foolish belief in the humanity of their oppressors. That being asked to look their victims in the face would give them pause.
they’ve victims of the american empire; whoemever they vote for is going to lead to the same ends.
They successfully got Biden to step down
But then they were stupid enoufht to replace him with another genocidal politician
Yeah fuck those orphans and widows voting for what was objectively the lesser of two evils.
I wanted to murder their families instead of the red team. Now all I can do is sneer at them.
It’s time to let go of blame for Trump election, even if DNC is not the right solution. It’s not voters to blame. Both voter suppression, and provisional ballot shenanigans are enough to account for electoral college victory. That groups who failed to turn out, oppose Trump now, is more important than yelling at them.
Cool that it’s the DNC’s fault. Sucks that anyone who was working towards Palestinian liberation now has to shift their attention to not getting jailed or deported.
I heard the organizers are expanding their strategy to other issues, like protesting capitalism by refusing to buy food or stopping an oil pipeline by refusing to drive to the blockade.
They were quoted as saying “These failures are already guaranteed to be someone else’s fault, and that’s the most important part.”
Ask the campus protestors arrested during the Biden administration about their felony charges and then tell me about how activists have to worry about being jailed now.
Cool that people making a principled stand to engage with a political party to encourage a change in policy are at fault for the leaders of that political party refusing to change policy, despite being told at multiple levels, for a multitude of reasons, including electorally, why that policy was bad.
Liberals hate democracy. Expecting to engage with a political party to affect change? Ew, just tick the box with a D next to it regardless of what they do or say. Don’t you know trying to engage with a party that doesn’t listen to its base or membership might lead to bad PR and might hurt them in an election? How could you be so inconsiderate? Your role is just to sit down and do nothing and accept whatever they say is true on MSNBC.
Sarcastic tone, but I was telling the truth there: It is the DNC’s fault. The policy and the defeat. And that fact is real cool for anyone who thinks that’s the important part.
I’m not mad about Uncommitted’s principles, and I don’t pin any moral blame on them. But I do think they have shitty tactics. This is a war. The RNC and DNC vs. us. If you have any chance to weaken your opponent, you take it. The Dems will never be your ally, so stop expecting them to.
Apologies, it came across as sarcastic but in the direction of defending DNC.
Way to stand up for Palestinians by letting an outright fascist make things even worse for Palestinians. I’m sure that’s gonna go great for people who love democracy as much as you, a person who could not check a box to protect trans rights, emergency services, vaccination, et very cetera.
What the fuck are you on?
The Israeli army intensively bombarded residential areas in Gaza when it lacked intelligence on the exact location of Hamas commanders hiding underground, and intentionally weaponized toxic byproducts of bombs to suffocate militants in their tunnels, an investigation by +972 Magazine and Local Call can reveal.
The investigation, based on conversations with 15 Israeli Military Intelligence and Shin Bet officers who have been involved in tunnel-targeting operations since October 7, exposes how this strategy aimed to compensate for the army’s inability to pinpoint targets in Hamas’ subterranean tunnel network. When targeting senior commanders in the group, the Israeli military authorized the killing of “triple-digit numbers” of Palestinian civilians as “collateral damage,” and maintained close real-time coordination with U.S. officials regarding the expected casualty figures.
Some of these strikes, which were the deadliest in the war and often used American bombs, are known to have killed Israeli hostages despite concerns raised ahead of time by military officers. Moreover, the lack of precise intelligence meant that in at least three major strikes, the army dropped several 2,000-pound bunker-buster bombs that killed scores of civilians — part of a strategy known as “tiling” — without succeeding in killing the intended target.
[…]
Israel’s efforts to maximize the chances of killing senior militants hiding underground also included attempts to crush parts of a tunnel network and trap the targets inside. Sources described incidents where vehicles fleeing an attack site were bombed without specific intelligence about who was inside, based on the assumption that a senior Hamas figure might be trying to escape.
“The entire region felt and heard the explosions,” Abdel Hadi Okal, a Palestinian journalist from Jabalia who witnessed several major Israeli bombing operations — which Palestinians often refer to as “fire belts” — during the early weeks of the war, told +972 and Local Call. “Entire residential blocks were targeted with heavy missiles, causing buildings to collapse and fall on top of each other. Ambulances and Civil Defense vehicles were unable to contend with the scale of the bombardment, so people had to use their hands and some light equipment to pull bodies from under the rubble of houses. There was no possibility for anyone to survive.”
https://www.972mag.com/tunnels-hamas-lethal-gas-bombs-gaza/
If you cared about Palestinians, you’d have supported the uncommitted movement a year ago. Instead, you’re here wasting everyones time lashing out at randoms on the internet because the Democrats campaign failed due to their own choices.
Did you even bother to look at the 100+ comments already in this thread, to realise you’re just the same as the other fucking morons who think random people on the internet criticising Democrats are the ones solely responsible for the Democrats losing the election? That it was their fault Democrats refused to move from endorsing genocide?
solely responsible
Strawman.
I am talking about a decision you made, as an individual - and which you still defend, here. What good was your principled stand? What on Earth was improved? What harm was minimized? Pounding the table about how bad things already were doesn’t change that they are now worse.
I am talking about a decision you made, as an individual
Jesus christ you’re a fucking moron. I’m not American. I can’t vote in US elections. I’m from the UK. I didn’t vote for Labour because they were also endorsing genocide. They still won the election.
What good was your principled stand? What on Earth was improved? What harm was minimized? Pounding the table about how bad things already were doesn’t change that they are now worse.
Why do you not ask those questions of Democratic party and its leadership, people who have actual power compared to random nobodies asked to tick a box once every 4 years?
What good was your principled stand (materially supporting and endorsing genocide)? What harm was minimised (murdering tens of thousands of Palestinians to defend Israel from consequences)? Pounding the table about how bad things are doesn’t change the way they keep getting worse (Democrats keep doubling down on genocide and being more racist, regardless of if they win or lose, and never change strategy).
Directed abuse over your own projected assumptions is not worth my time.
lmao like the projected assumptions I was from the US and voted in the election?
Again, did you think you were doing something that the 100+ comments in this thread hadn’t already litigated, fucking moron?
Who gives a fuck? Stop trying to sew division and relitigate an election that ended three months ago. Fuck the politics of division. The left needs unity now. Fuck the dividers.
The dividers are Democrats trying to blame their loss on people who refused to support their genocide.
They want to learn nothing from the election and have turned their propaganda to justify their loss into overdrive.
What does the paragraph right below the one with a red square around it say
It says that few of the people responsible for dividing the Democratic party will be held responsible.
The paragraph below that one explains how Democrats such as Fetterman are trying to shift the blame on groups alienated by the Democratic party.
I don’t understand all the focus on John Fetterman as somehow being representative of the Democratic party writ large. It’s blatant that his personality has changed since his stroke, and I’d wager he’s going to lose his next primary if he even tries to run again
Because Democrats have done nothing to pressure him into changing his position, and Democrats like Fetterman have absolutely been at the forefront of all the attempts to blame people who cared about Palestinians enough to try and get Democrats to change policy for their campaign and policy failures.
People who support genocidal democrats aren’t the left nor were they ever the left. They’re milquetoast liberals happy that at least trump is protecting their 401ks.
Why should the left work with liberals, who propped up the genocide and refused to work with the Left?
The left might need a unity, but the Democrats are not a part of that or any left.
What we need is electoral reform so more then two political parties can run for office with no spoiler effect.
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
And after the behavior of democrats in the last election and after, I no longer want to unify with them. Blue MAGA
Well good thing trump is president now eh? Right? RIGHT???
Edit:
I’m remembering now why I blocked the hexbear instance 😂
Unironically yes, considering that after 15 months of Biden letting the war go on a ceasefire came when Trump took power.
If the Democrats were really passionate about winning, maybe they should have listened to their voter base for once, instead of alienating them. The Dems blame everybody but themselves for their loss and it’s disgusting.
Voting isn’t some bargain between a thousand voting groups and one candidate. Let’s break it down.
THERE ARE TWO CANDIDATES
YOU PICK THE BEST CANDIDATE
Note that ‘best’ isn’t ‘great’; nor is it ‘good’, ‘awesome’, etc. And, while there are more candidates, sometimes only two have a chance (Hi Ross Perot!). So it’s a binary choice. There has to be someone in office. You pick the least-worse one.
The unmentioned third option is “If you vote third party or don’t vote at all, you accept the consequences of a worst-case scenario”.
I’m really thinking America didn’t educate people on ‘this or that’.
No you can force a political party to abide by your wishes by showing you are willing to not vote for them.
What lesson can the Democratic party learn from this?
No you see, they don’t want to hold politicians accountable. They’d rather bootlick while blaming individual voters for being stuck between a rock and hard place.
Sounds like US democracy with the US voting system is deeply flawed and the only moral action is to no longer engage with it. Otherwise you are expected to choose between different approaches to an ongoing genocide.
Personally I pull the lever in the trolley problem. Not pulling the lever definitely doesn’t equal washing one’s hands of the outcome.
Both tracks have the same people on them. The elections aren’t there to influence US policy, but to give it legitimacy. The capitalists and bureaucracy are what actually control government policy.
Oh I didn’t see this is lemmy.ml. You’re making a false equivalency sorry. Both parties are bad but one is clearly less bad by a mile.
Anyway I said what my personal preference is. I’m allowed to have an opinion on the trolley problem while also acknowledging it’s one of the most famous problems in philosophy precisely because so few people agree.
The DINOs failed to win the election, I still think they’d be less bad than this.
Both parties are bad but one is clearly less bad by a mile.
This is irrelevant and falls into great man theory. The US government has 23 million employees and is a massive sprawling system with its own dynamics. It reacts to world events based on these dynamics. The US government is not controlled by this or that party, or the elections. It is not designed for such democratic input since it was designed as a dictatorship of property owners. In its early days, this was quite literally explicit, but even to this day, the iron grip of the bourgeoise is maintained on government strategy.
I’m allowed to have an opinion on the trolley problem while also acknowledging it’s one of the most famous problems in philosophy precisely because so few people agree.
The trolley problem is garbage nonsense, and applies to basically no real world situations. The trolley problem is only famous because it’s easy to think about, not because it is philosophically sophisticated. In the real world, there are an monumental number of possible paths that can be taken, each with outcomes that cannot be exactly predicted in advance. The trolley problem only works in real life if you are basically God.
Aight well I don’t find any of that to be incompatible with my POV so 🤷♀️
I get it you don’t like harm reduction. Some of us do though why do you have a problem with that
“Harm reduction” is what got us to this place is why I have a problem with it. This is the inevitable result of lesser eviling your way through politics.
If you guys weren’t so gung ho on supporting the dems no matter what, and forced them to do some good for once, Trump wouldn’t have been elected the first time much less the second one.
The only reason the Democrats are willing to spill so much blood is because they know people like you will defend them.
To put it in computer science terms, you are mistakenly believing that your “greedy algorithm” of harm reducing (seeking the best option at this time step) will lead to the global optimum (the best possible outcome at the end).
You overestimate how much power you have in this situation. We don’t get to pull the lever. The choices given to us have been approved by the same people who are tying people to the tracks.
You are either tied up to the track or shoveling coal into the trolly’s furnace.
Why not, instead, work to stop the trolley from killing anyone?
Cut people free, blow up the fucking trolley, smash the rails…
But no, you feel superior making a moral choice to kill people in group a, while bragging about “saving” group b.
🙄 you’re not any better than people blaming non-voters for the election & you’re not convincing anybody with that BS any more than they’re convincing you
Why not, instead, work to stop the trolley from killing anyone?
I could ask the same of you! Instead of helping fix the system you’re blaming other people for their personal voting choices. Get it?
I am working to fix the system, by working to remove the power of the state, from my community.
If you mean “fix it” by strengthening the imperial states of America’s government, so we can keep the working class oppressed, I’m sorry, that’s not my goal.
The elections over champ, you can stop screeching the same thing over and over again. Unless you’re already gearing up to lose the next election too.
Pro genocide comments like this don’t surprise me anymore. I urge you to post more like this during the upcoming elections to remind people what the Democratic Party and its base really are. Voters might be scared into voting for the Democrats again.
Angsty, disaffected, adolescent me in the 1990’s believed that repeated rounds of “least-worst” would lead to, well, it’s here. He wasn’t proved wrong.
Voting isn’t some bargain between a thousand voting groups and one candidate.
That’s literally what it was intended to be. Political party conventions once were real, high-stakes meetings to hash out a platform that appealed to as many interests as possible.
Wasn’t there like 6 parties?
Instead of uniting against Trump, let’s fracture the left by yelling at each other for voting the wrong way! Even though that has never worked in the history of ever!
I wish these people could understand that blaming people for voting “wrong” is literally the opposite of democracy and just devolves into nothing ever getting better.
Like you shouldn’t have to do that, people make good choices when they have good options!!
Or, you pick neither. That’s also an option.
